Steve McClaren

[Parky]

Winning the Dutch league with that club was a pretty massive achievement tbf. Also he was really honest about the achievement and said he added about 20% to what he found. Imagine how Pardew would have carried on...

[STM]

Personally couldn't care less if he's boring. I can't see why someone would want a mid table french manager over someone who's done something in his career.

 

"Yeah but he's boring and derby". Doesn't cut it.

 

I wouldn't have gone for McClaren but he's the best manager we have hired since Bobby (Keegan aside).

 

Steve McClaren would not have got Gunigamp 2 promotions and then an 8th place finish which resulted in Europa league qualification though. Gourvennec did that. With a pretty average team. Why? Because he's got different approaches, he has new ideas and tactics, because he's better than Steve McClaren.

 

Actually it's your shit excuse that "doesn't cut it".

 

Excuse? Excuse for what?

 

I didn't want McClaren but I won't change history.

[Twinport53]

Personally couldn't care less if he's boring. I can't see why someone would want a mid table french manager over someone who's done something in his career.

 

"Yeah but he's boring and derby". Doesn't cut it.

 

I wouldn't have gone for McClaren but he's the best manager we have hired since Bobby (Keegan aside).

 

Steve McClaren would not have got Gunigamp 2 promotions and then an 8th place finish which resulted in Europa league qualification though. Gourvennec did that. With a pretty average team. Why? Because he's got different approaches, he has new ideas and tactics, because he's better than Steve McClaren.

 

Actually it's your s*** excuse that "doesn't cut it".

 

Excuse? Excuse for what?

 

I didn't want McClaren but I won't change history.

 

You are changing Gourvennec' history for fuck sake. He's not some shit French midtable manager, just you you can try and prove a point. You're wrong.

[STM]

Personally couldn't care less if he's boring. I can't see why someone would want a mid table french manager over someone who's done something in his career.

 

"Yeah but he's boring and derby". Doesn't cut it.

 

I wouldn't have gone for McClaren but he's the best manager we have hired since Bobby (Keegan aside).

 

Steve McClaren would not have got Gunigamp 2 promotions and then an 8th place finish which resulted in Europa league qualification though. Gourvennec did that. With a pretty average team. Why? Because he's got different approaches, he has new ideas and tactics, because he's better than Steve McClaren.

 

Actually it's your s*** excuse that "doesn't cut it".

 

Excuse? Excuse for what?

 

I didn't want McClaren but I won't change history.

 

You are changing Gourvennec' history for fuck sake. He's not some shit French midtable manager, just you you can try and prove a point. You're wrong.

 

Has he finished above midtable in France? Has he won anything?

 

Being a failure somewhere doesn't discount other achievements. I will say it again, nothing he has done compares to McClaren's European final or Dutch league win, no matter how you dress it up.

 

Allardyce got Bolton into the premiership and to a sixth place finish iirc, should we have him back?

[Hanshithispantz]

So hang on a minute, because I'm just going off this thread, but are you trying to claim a bloke who (in 3 seasons?) has gotten a club promoted twice and then led them to a solid 8th place finish on the back of those promotions as purely 'a mid-table manager' and discrediting everything he's done in those years because he 'hasn't won anything'?

 

If so then that seems incredibly spiteful like.

[Twinport53]

Personally couldn't care less if he's boring. I can't see why someone would want a mid table french manager over someone who's done something in his career.

 

"Yeah but he's boring and derby". Doesn't cut it.

 

I wouldn't have gone for McClaren but he's the best manager we have hired since Bobby (Keegan aside).

 

Steve McClaren would not have got Gunigamp 2 promotions and then an 8th place finish which resulted in Europa league qualification though. Gourvennec did that. With a pretty average team. Why? Because he's got different approaches, he has new ideas and tactics, because he's better than Steve McClaren.

 

Actually it's your s*** excuse that "doesn't cut it".

 

Excuse? Excuse for what?

 

I didn't want McClaren but I won't change history.

 

You are changing Gourvennec' history for f*** sake. He's not some s*** French midtable manager, just you you can try and prove a point. You're wrong.

 

Has he finished above midtable in France? Has he won anything?

 

Being a failure somewhere doesn't discount other achievements. I will say it again, nothing he has done compares to McClaren's European final or Dutch league win, no matter how you dress it up.

 

Allardyce got Bolton into the premiership and to a sixth place finish iirc, should we have him back?

 

Since 2010 he has 2 promotions and qualified for Europa with Guingamp.

 

He also managed to accidently win the Coupe de France in 2014. You are talking absolute shit.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Coupe_de_France_Final

[STM]

Hey, I'm sure the bloke got potential. I'm being over critical to prove a point.

 

His job gets a lot harder now.

[Miercoles]

Just sick of old Englishmen.... Anyone under 60 would be awesome. The less English the better.

[Twinport53]

Hey, I'm sure the bloke got potential. I'm being over critical to prove a point.

 

His job gets a lot harder now.

 

So you gonna admit you were wrong then?

 

Since he has a trophy which is all your McClaren argument is based on?

[Hanshithispantz]

Just sick of old Englishmen.... Anyone under 60 would be awesome. The less English the better.

McClaren is 54 and probably has some sort of Scottish ancestry

[STM]

Personally couldn't care less if he's boring. I can't see why someone would want a mid table french manager over someone who's done something in his career.

 

"Yeah but he's boring and derby". Doesn't cut it.

 

I wouldn't have gone for McClaren but he's the best manager we have hired since Bobby (Keegan aside).

 

Steve McClaren would not have got Gunigamp 2 promotions and then an 8th place finish which resulted in Europa league qualification though. Gourvennec did that. With a pretty average team. Why? Because he's got different approaches, he has new ideas and tactics, because he's better than Steve McClaren.

 

Actually it's your s*** excuse that "doesn't cut it".

 

Excuse? Excuse for what?

 

I didn't want McClaren but I won't change history.

 

You are changing Gourvennec' history for f*** sake. He's not some s*** French midtable manager, just you you can try and prove a point. You're wrong.

 

Has he finished above midtable in France? Has he won anything?

 

Being a failure somewhere doesn't discount other achievements. I will say it again, nothing he has done compares to McClaren's European final or Dutch league win, no matter how you dress it up.

 

Allardyce got Bolton into the premiership and to a sixth place finish iirc, should we have him back?

 

Since 2010 he has 2 promotions and qualified for Europa with Guingamp.

 

He also managed to accidently win the Coupe de France in 2014. You are talking absolute shit.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Coupe_de_France_Final

 

You just don't get it. How can you point to his record, yet ignore McClaren's better achievements?

 

For the last time McClaren's Dutch league win trumps anything he has done. Yet you HATE McClaren and like Gourvennec?

 

Doesn't add up. McClaren's a decent manager, Gourvennec seems to be going places too but he's done nothing to warrant hysteria.

[STM]

Hey, I'm sure the bloke got potential. I'm being over critical to prove a point.

 

His job gets a lot harder now.

 

So you gonna admit you were wrong then?

 

Since he has a trophy which is all your McClaren argument is based on?

 

I don't even think you know what we're arguing about. McClaren's achieved more than Gourvennec, deal with it.

[Hanshithispantz]

I cannot wrap my head around this at all like

 

We know what we're getting with McClaren, his record in Holland is entirely irrelevant.

[Twinport53]

 

You just don't get it. How can you point to his record, yet ignore McClaren's better achievements?

 

For the last time McClaren's Dutch league win trumps anything he has done. Yet you HATE McClaren and like Gourvennec?

 

Doesn't add up. McClaren's a decent manager, Gourvennec seems to be going places too but he's done nothing to warrant hysteria.

 

I do get it, McClaren is everything that is wrong with the club. Is he better than Pardew and Carver? Yes absolutely. Is he the best we can get? Absolutely not.

 

This was a time for us to strive for better. And taking McClaren based on his 50/50 career of limited success and failure is not a good foundation for future. He's also 11 years older than people like Gourvennec. I would hope he would have gone on to have a better Career in 11 years time than Schteve.

 

I don't hate McClaren, if he was appointed immediately after Pardew left, I personally would have been happy, as he's an upgrade. But not after rejecting us twice and knowing there were better candidates available. It's not good enough, and we shouldn't be accepting it. And pointing back to his success at Boro nearly 10 years ago, is not a positive. Twente was his only recent success, and when he went back a second time, it was a disaster.

[Twinport53]

Hey, I'm sure the bloke got potential. I'm being over critical to prove a point.

 

His job gets a lot harder now.

 

So you gonna admit you were wrong then?

 

Since he has a trophy which is all your McClaren argument is based on?

 

I don't even think you know what we're arguing about. McClaren's achieved more than Gourvennec, deal with it.

 

YOUR argument is based on trophies. Which Gourvennec has achieved one more recently than McClaren.

[STM]

 

You just don't get it. How can you point to his record, yet ignore McClaren's better achievements?

 

For the last time McClaren's Dutch league win trumps anything he has done. Yet you HATE McClaren and like Gourvennec?

 

Doesn't add up. McClaren's a decent manager, Gourvennec seems to be going places too but he's done nothing to warrant hysteria.

 

I do get it, McClaren is everything that is wrong with the club. Is he better than Pardew and Carver? Yes absolutely. Is he the best we can get? Absolutely not.

 

This was a time for us to strive for better. And taking McClaren based on his 50/50 career of limited success and failure is not a good foundation for future. He's also 11 years older than people like Gourvennec. I would hope he would have gone on to have a better Career in 11 years time than Schteve.

 

I don't hate McClaren, if he was appointed immediately after Pardew left, I personally would have been happy, as he's an upgrade. But not after rejecting us twice and knowing there were better candidates available. It's not good enough, and we shouldn't be accepting it. And pointing back to his success at Boro nearly 10 years ago, is not a positive. Twente was his only recent success, and when he went back a second time, it was a disaster.

 

I agree with all of that. I was making a bigger point about the judgement of foreign coaches.

 

Of course I would choose excitement over the mundane.

[STM]

Hey, I'm sure the bloke got potential. I'm being over critical to prove a point.

 

His job gets a lot harder now.

 

So you gonna admit you were wrong then?

 

Since he has a trophy which is all your McClaren argument is based on?

 

I don't even think you know what we're arguing about. McClaren's achieved more than Gourvennec, deal with it.

 

YOUR argument is based on trophies. Which Gourvennec has achieved one more recently than McClaren.

 

No it wasn't. It was about records.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

I think most of us would have to admit that McClaren is a better manager than we expected to get, in terms of his CV. He's just not as interesting as we wanted or a signal of a real change in approach from the club.

[Twinport53]

If you agree, stop hyping up McClaren then!

 

Also, trophies create and enhance a record. Again Gourvennec' record has the most recent addition.

[Yorkie]

I think most of us would have to admit that McClaren is a better manager than we expected to get, in terms of his CV. He's just not as interesting as we wanted or a signal of a real change in approach from the club.

 

Well I've been expecting McClaren from the moment his name first appeared on the rumour mill.

[STM]

If you agree, stop hyping up McClaren then!

 

Also, trophies create and enhance a record. Again Gourvennec' record has the most recent addition.

 

Trust me. I've no intention of hyping up McClaren. Just trying to provide balance.

 

McClaren might not be as excruciating as some think. Ultimately, the club will fail because of Ashley.

[Hanshithispantz]

What an absolute waste of time this has been.

[TRon]

Being just above average is the worst we could hope for. Best case scenario is a serious manager. Second best case was Carver.

 

If you believe in the scorched earth policy of getting Ashley out then yep, you're right. Not sure everyone failing as quickly as possible is really the answer, but then again I don't know what is.

At 17th we had him squirming on Sky TV. Had we been 11th would we have put the pressure on him?

 

I know what you're saying, I don't disagree really. But he squirmed on TV and then he didn't change his approach at all... or at least not by very much.

 

It's quite hard to muster a debate on this because I don't want Carver, don't have any feelings about McClaren and I have no idea whether relegation would make Ashley more likely to sell. Not sure I can be bothered to form opinions beyond that!

 

This is what I was wondering about: what is the absolute best case for hiring McClaren? For Ashley, and for the fans?

 

Ashley is easy - we know he wants 17th and anything above that is a bonus because of prize money based on league position, but don't place in the Euro spots.

 

But what is the absolute best case scenario for fans with the McClaren appointment? Even with God managing us, we're not going to place in the Champions League (things have changed since Pardew nearly snuck in re squad quality and depth). Winning more than we lose, playing good football - a 90 good minutes on a Saturday here and there - is that as good as it gets for us? If the best case is 6th-8th, are we happy with that if it means Ashley in perpetuity (with all that entails)?

 

Because I'm fond of what has been quaintly described as the "scorched earth" policy - McClaren rejecting us, Carver appointed, consecutive relegations, players refusing to sign for us because there's no soul or heart or even any fucking point to the club - until Ashley jacks it in and we can rebuild from wherever we find ourselves. I think that's a realistic scenario, and better than everything going perfectly for McClaren, doing the absolute best that he can...

 

 

I think our expectations should reflect our status as one of the wealthiest clubs in England. Okay we can't compete with the top 4 or 5 who earn a lot more than us such as Man U, Chelsea, Man City etc, but beyond that we should be able to aim for top 6, a cup win and expect to see some good football. Really that would do me just fine. I'd love it if Ashley suddenly turned into Abramovich and started spending to win the league but obviously that's not going to happen. But at least we should be the next biggest spenders after the top 5 or 6 clubs.

[Twinport53]

If you agree, stop hyping up McClaren then!

 

Also, trophies create and enhance a record. Again Gourvennec' record has the most recent addition.

 

Trust me. I've no intention of hyping up McClaren. Just trying to provide balance.

 

McClaren might not be as excruciating as some think. Ultimately, the club will fail because of Ashley.

 

Again, I would have been pleased had he came in within a month of Pardew leaving, but not now. He's nowt special, and his record isn't going to convince me otherwise.

 

I have slight hope of an improvement in the playing side of things, due to how many players and managers rate his coaching abilities. I have also read the Derby forums and tbh, some say he's turned them from around a 15th and below placed team, to comfortable top 10, whilst playing the best football they have seen since 2007 (am assuming this was their last promotion). Some are gutted he's gone and say he should have been given a 3rd season. And that the speculation surrounding him due to us courting him, along with losing some decent players to injury, ultimately hampered there promotion push. But they still wanted him to stay another season.

 

Others say although he got them playing good football, the fact he never 100% denied our interest our his intention to move, cost them promotion and for that, he deserved the sack.

 

Either way, they almost all agree the football got better. Which is something we can look forward to. However we could have looked forward to better football and a new innovative manager who wanted to prove his worth and push us up a level, and embed us solidly into the top half for good.

 

It's still a missed opportunity for me and others though. And Schteve is the epitome of everything Ashley wants. Subdued hope and belief and an acceptance of mediocrity.

[Hanshithispantz]

Either way, they almost all agree the football got better. Which is something we can look forward to.

 

Not really like, he may not be as depressing to watch as Pardew but my memories of him at Boro certainly didn't include "good attacking football." It's a lot easier to play good football in a league where a decent winger is all you need to slice the opposition open.