Steve McClaren

[Dinho lad]

His boro spell was ages ago..... he did won them a trophy, ultimately. Yeah they spent a bit of money, but it's quite rare to see clubs win trophies without spending money these days. 

 

What your last sentence all about, btw?

[Twinport53]

Either way, they almost all agree the football got better. Which is something we can look forward to.

 

Not really like, he may not be as depressing to watch as Pardew but my memories of him at Boro certainly didn't include "good attacking football." It's a lot easier to play good football in a league where a decent winger is all you need to slice the opposition open.

 

I understand what your saying and agree with the Boro reference, but when we were down in the championship, we didn't knock the ball about the way Derby try to do. We hoofed it long to Carroll / Shola / Harewood and hoped they knocked it in, our Nolan / Lovenkrands took the knock down.

 

I again, don't like to go against the opinions of fans of other clubs, especially when it's their own club they describe, because we all frankly don't watch Derby enough to form a concrete opinion. So it's one thing I am willing to watch and hopefully see develop. I don't think it will be Arsenal or even Swansea style play, but still.

 

Edit: I know we had Jonas and Jose on LW, but they weren't spectacular towards our general build up play on a week by week basis.

[Hanshithispantz]

His boro spell was ages ago..... he did won them a trophy, ultimately. Yeah they spent a bit of money, but it's quite rare to see clubs win trophies without spending money these days. 

 

What your last sentence all about, btw?

Championship defences are fucking terrible. We signed Wayne Routlege and he pretty much raped the league.

[Wallace]

If you agree, stop hyping up McClaren then!

 

Also, trophies create and enhance a record. Again Gourvennec' record has the most recent addition.

 

Trust me. I've no intention of hyping up McClaren. Just trying to provide balance.

 

McClaren might not be as excruciating as some think. Ultimately, the club will fail because of Ashley.

 

Again, I would have been pleased had he came in within a month of Pardew leaving, but not now. He's nowt special, and his record isn't going to convince me otherwise.

 

I have slight hope of an improvement in the playing side of things, due to how many players and managers rate his coaching abilities. I have also read the Derby forums and tbh, some say he's turned them from around a 15th and below placed team, to comfortable top 10, whilst playing the best football they have seen since 2007 (am assuming this was their last promotion). Some are gutted he's gone and say he should have been given a 3rd season. And that the speculation surrounding him due to us courting him, along with losing some decent players to injury, ultimately hampered there promotion push. But they still wanted him to stay another season.

 

Others say although he got them playing good football, the fact he never 100% denied our interest our his intention to move, cost them promotion and for that, he deserved the sack.

 

Either way, they almost all agree the football got better. Which is something we can look forward to. However we could have looked forward to better football and a new innovative manager who wanted to prove his worth and push us up a level, and embed us solidly into the top half for good.

 

It's still a missed opportunity for me and others though. And Schteve is the epitome of everything Ashley wants. Subdued hope and belief and an acceptance of mediocrity.

 

I'm not convinced he will have us playing good football.  The Premier League for most clubs these days is all about fear of failure so I can see him reverting to negative football as he has done in the past.  It will all be about keeping us in the Premier League.

 

[Raconteur]

Being just above average is the worst we could hope for. Best case scenario is a serious manager. Second best case was Carver.

 

If you believe in the scorched earth policy of getting Ashley out then yep, you're right. Not sure everyone failing as quickly as possible is really the answer, but then again I don't know what is.

At 17th we had him squirming on Sky TV. Had we been 11th would we have put the pressure on him?

 

I know what you're saying, I don't disagree really. But he squirmed on TV and then he didn't change his approach at all... or at least not by very much.

 

It's quite hard to muster a debate on this because I don't want Carver, don't have any feelings about McClaren and I have no idea whether relegation would make Ashley more likely to sell. Not sure I can be bothered to form opinions beyond that!

 

This is what I was wondering about: what is the absolute best case for hiring McClaren? For Ashley, and for the fans?

 

Ashley is easy - we know he wants 17th and anything above that is a bonus because of prize money based on league position, but don't place in the Euro spots.

 

But what is the absolute best case scenario for fans with the McClaren appointment? Even with God managing us, we're not going to place in the Champions League (things have changed since Pardew nearly snuck in re squad quality and depth). Winning more than we lose, playing good football - a 90 good minutes on a Saturday here and there - is that as good as it gets for us? If the best case is 6th-8th, are we happy with that if it means Ashley in perpetuity (with all that entails)?

 

Because I'm fond of what has been quaintly described as the "scorched earth" policy - McClaren rejecting us, Carver appointed, consecutive relegations, players refusing to sign for us because there's no soul or heart or even any fucking point to the club - until Ashley jacks it in and we can rebuild from wherever we find ourselves. I think that's a realistic scenario, and better than everything going perfectly for McClaren, doing the absolute best that he can...

 

 

I think our expectations should reflect our status as one of the wealthiest clubs in England. Okay we can't compete with the top 4 or 5 who earn a lot more than us such as Man U, Chelsea, Man City etc, but beyond that we should be able to aim for top 6, a cup win and expect to see some good football. Really that would do me just fine. I'd love it if Ashley suddenly turned into Abramovich and started spending to win the league but obviously that's not going to happen. But at least we should be the next biggest spenders after the top 5 or 6 clubs.

I guess my point is that what should be happening is not what is going to happen. Ashley is not going to spend a penny more than he has to, moreover he will sell when he can, too. He's appointing a manager and then not only doesn't give him the tools to succeed, but sells off some of the tools he thinks he won't need. The good football and the cup wins - yes, we should aspire to that, but Ashley plain doesn't. That's the point - what is the best that we can reasonably and realistically hope for under (any) Ashley manager?

 

So, within that framework, is McClaren a coach who can achieve good football and cup runs/wins. Probably not. But is Vieira, or Garde, or de Boer or anyone else capable of that, with Ashley tying their hands behind their backs? I don't think anyone could.

 

McClaren might be shit, might be boring, might surprise people by not being shit, but so fucking what? He won't relegate us, and I don't believe anyone can provide the top-six-and-cup-success you(correctly) say we should aspire to. That being the case, I would take crashing and burning in order to get Ashley out over the mediocrity McClaren (or almost any decent manager) can provide

[STM]

I think a where will we finish poll will be interesting.

 

I'd go around 11th.

[Hanshithispantz]

Either way, they almost all agree the football got better. Which is something we can look forward to.

 

Not really like, he may not be as depressing to watch as Pardew but my memories of him at Boro certainly didn't include "good attacking football." It's a lot easier to play good football in a league where a decent winger is all you need to slice the opposition open.

 

I understand what your saying and agree with the Boro reference, but when we were down in the championship, we didn't knock the ball about the way Derby try to do. We hoofed it long to Carroll / Shola / Harewood and hoped they knocked it in, our Nolan / Lovenkrands took the knock down.

 

I again, don't like to go against the opinions of fans of other clubs, especially when it's their own club they describe, because we all frankly don't watch Derby enough to form a concrete opinion. So it's one thing I am willing to watch and hopefully see develop. I don't think it will be Arsenal or even Swansea style play, but still.

 

Edit: I know we had Jonas and Jose on LW, but they weren't spectacular towards our general build up play on a week by week basis.

I've said it before like but I've not even watched Derby play under him, I'm just not too convinced them playing good football in the Championship will carry over to us in the Premiership.

[Twinport53]

I'm not convinced he will have us playing good football.  The Premier League for most clubs these days is all about fear of failure so I can see him reverting to negative football as he has done in the past.  It will all be about keeping us in the Premier League.

 

I think he 'might' give it a try, due to him convincing himself he is a European tested and educated manager, which he hadn't experienced yet at Boro. But once we take a couple of hammerings, he will revert to type. Hopefully he doesn't mention "back to basics"

[Parky]

Ultimately it won't really be about McClaren but investment in the squad. That will be the real statement of intentions.

[Deckard 13]

I think a where will we finish poll will be interesting.

 

I'd go around 11th.

 

As of today, 18th. Even if we recruit well I doubt we'll trouble the top 10 because I'll think as always well buy decent players but the wrong players.

[Twinport53]

I think a where will we finish poll will be interesting.

 

I'd go around 11th.

 

I roughly agree, around 10th - 13th for me.

 

Either way, they almost all agree the football got better. Which is something we can look forward to.

 

Not really like, he may not be as depressing to watch as Pardew but my memories of him at Boro certainly didn't include "good attacking football." It's a lot easier to play good football in a league where a decent winger is all you need to slice the opposition open.

 

I understand what your saying and agree with the Boro reference, but when we were down in the championship, we didn't knock the ball about the way Derby try to do. We hoofed it long to Carroll / Shola / Harewood and hoped they knocked it in, our Nolan / Lovenkrands took the knock down.

 

I again, don't like to go against the opinions of fans of other clubs, especially when it's their own club they describe, because we all frankly don't watch Derby enough to form a concrete opinion. So it's one thing I am willing to watch and hopefully see develop. I don't think it will be Arsenal or even Swansea style play, but still.

 

Edit: I know we had Jonas and Jose on LW, but they weren't spectacular towards our general build up play on a week by week basis.

I've said it before like but I've not even watched Derby play under him, I'm just not too convinced them playing good football in the Championship will carry over to us in the Premiership.

 

There is zero certainty that it will even come close. But one think is for sure, it won't have materialised under Pardew. And that is literally my only positive for McClaren from what I have dug up so far. I don't care for his success and failure anymore, because it was either to long ago, or I don't truly know the meaning behind it all e.g. Nottingham Forest failings.

 

I just want to see some change, unfortunately McClaren won't bring about enough of it.

[The Prophet]

People seem to be overlooking who our backroom staff are going to be. I honestly can't see much changing with lickety split and the gang still in employment.

[Optimistic Nut]

People seem to be overlooking who our backroom staff are going to be. I honestly can't see much changing with lickety split and the gang still in employment.

 

On the other hand, having someone who isn't a fuckwit as their boss and someone with fresh ideas might make them workable.

[Mick]

The state of this thread man. 

[Stottie]

I don't watch the Championship, so was there a reason for Derby falling away?

They were joint top in early Feb but finished the season P17 W4 D8 L5 F29 A30 for 20 points.

They conceded more (30) in the last 17 games than they did (26) in the first 29 games.

Did they lose any key defensive players during the season? Their final games included a 2-2, a 3-3 and a 4-4. Were they simply "found out"?

 

I did see the playoff last year and I thought QPR were jammy as feck to win it.

[The Prophet]

It was a mixture of injuries, being awful at the back and momentum.

[Guest firetotheworks]

It seems that some people don't understand the difference between 'providing balance' and 'pretending there's a balance'

 

Providing balance is what SSN do to pretend there's an argument to be had so that it engages the viewers, despite the fact that the reality is massively skewed in one way. For example, they would provide balance by interviewing one fan that didn't want Carver and then interviewing one fan who 'thinks he deserves a chance'...both people get equal air time, the difference being that there's no debate. They'll have found that fan that didn't want Carver in 9 out of 10 places they looked, but they'll have resorted to hanging around Westgate Road looking for the bloke that was mumbling to himself to find the fan that had any time for Carver. Still though, that's 'providing balance'

 

It's the same here, there's no balance to 'provide'...it's not like everyone can't deduce things for themselves and need someone to come in and provide an alternative argument. People are capable of making decisions based one both sides of the argument and that's how they come to conclusions like 'Pardew is a massive bellend and a fucking shit manager' after months of giving him every benefit of the doubt in their own mind by providing balance (5th place finish, 433 with HBA, Cisse and Ba). People don't need people to provide balance for them, we're all capable thinking for ourselves like.

 

Obviously it's a forum and the whole idea is to debate things, but this being contrarian under the guise of providing balance is rubbish. It's just a patronising devil's advocate.

[Dave]

11th. How exciting.

[BottledDog]

It was a mixture of injuries, being awful at the back and momentum.

 

And McClaren.

 

Mainly McClaren.

 

 

Now the smarmy fuck can be paired up with Carver to form a miserable run super group.

[The Prophet]

The most annoying thing about it all is 'tge give him time brigade' will play right into Ashley's hands.

[colinmk]

Question for those that have given up going to matches. Will the appointment of Steve McClaren mean you will attend games again?

[STM]

I won't be going. Not McClaren's fault though.

 

If there was some serious ambitions in transfers I might but we wont do that.

[Mick]

Question for those that have given up going to matches. Will the appointment of Steve McClaren mean you will attend games again?

 

Not a chance. 

[STM]

Better atmosphere in a pub anyway. There's a better atmosphere in a library for that matter.

[Klaus]

Very surprised if anybody decides to go back because of Mcclaren like obviously there are those who would still turn up no matter what, but they are beyond help.