Liam Liam Liam O Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 I t h i n k s o m e o n e i s g o i n g t o p r o v i d e s o m e r e t o r t . Thanks, that's much better with my eyes. Get's much trickier when someone quotes it though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 Get's much trickier when someone quotes it though. Or edits it for you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crumpy Gunt Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 Someone tells me Barret got nicked today. Don't have any proof to substantiate the story but if true I hope his banner gets life in solitary. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Liam Liam O Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 Get's much trickier when someone quotes it though. Or edits it for you. Sad git's probably trying to in line edit it or something. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 Someone tells me Barret got nicked today. Don't have any proof to substantiate the story but if true I hope his banner gets life in solitary. As I was saying... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 Did he get nicked for being racialist to cockneys? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 Did he get nicked for being racialist to cockneys? I wonder if he gets bannered from games. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest black n white Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 Cockney Mafia Out! Banner its just not big enough imo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 Someone tells me Barret got nicked today. Don't have any proof to substantiate the story but if true I hope his banner gets life in solitary. Don't know which one he is but one of the the people with said banner was throwing punches with some other lad after the final whistle. Banner was out at HT n all. Were sat row D Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 Did he get nicked for being racialist to cockneys? I wonder if he gets bannered from games. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wallace Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 Some lad tried to pull the banner down at half-time and words were exchanged and stewards got involved. At full-time, the lad came back and punches were thrown but don't think they connected at all. Stewards again involved. Saw Keith walking out so if he was arrested it must have been as he was leaving the stadium. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 You need to activate your account, Keith. There's a link in the email sent to the address you used. I've deleted the account you tried to make last night. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Liam Liam O Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 You need to activate your account, Keith. There's a link in the email sent to the address you used. I've deleted the account you tried to make last night. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest uma Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Keith Barrett Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 Keith Barrett here joining in with your forum. I am one of the 'thick' blokes with the 'Cockney Mafia out' banner. I do not think I represent anyone but myself, I am not a member of NUSC, and I do not wish to be on the telly, despite numerous requests since my mate Graham Robson and I made the giant 'Howay The Lads' flag some years ago.That giant flag took a lot of time, money and effort. The 'Cockney Mafia Out' banner was bought by myself and has been held aloft at various games by me, my 79 year old Dad, my friends Paul Fenning and Bernie Kane. You will notice there are no nicknames here as used by writers on this forum, that's who we are. I first went to St.James's Park in 1962, Plymouth Argyle at home 0-0, I follow my team home and away and have only missed three games in the last seventeen years, these were friendlies. I ran Toon Travel for fifeteen and a half years, providing coaches, trains or planes to every game in that time at a cheaper cost than the club, if they even bothered to put anything on. Whilst running Toon Travel I was also trying to run my haulage business which eventually failed, due somewhat to my travel commitments. My marriage to my southern born wife has also failed, this was down totally to my commitment to Newcastle United and not her. Thats a bit of background about me. The 'Cockney Mafia Out' banner. I fully appreciate that not every Newcastle United fan shares the same view as me, the banner is not aimed at Cockney's in general, I have many Cockney friends, I also fully appreciate that Mike Ashley and Dennis Wise were not born within the sound of Bow bells so they are not 'true' cockneys, ( I could not afford to have Buckinghamshire and Kensington put on the banner, it cost me a hundred pound as it is). I had it made to express my feelings about the people who run our club. I don't want them there, I don't trust them, I think they have shown there true colours, I think they are con men. Dennis Wise was a horrible obnoxious player on the pitch, that everbody hated, he has no affinity with Newcastle United whatsoever.. Mike Ashley has shown contempt for the fans and presumably thinks he can worm his way back into our hearts, he was never in my heart, I do not remember seeing him on the terraces at Plymouth, Shrewsbury or Whrexham supporting the team, he, in my opinion is a con man. Now, I know I have left myself wide open to critisism that previous or future owners have not or will not stand on the terraces, but, I have, Newcastle United have been a major part of my life for forty odd years, I love Newcastle United and the fans, we are adifferent people to anybody else in the country, or used to be at least. I don't want someone who does not understand what Newcastle United means to its supporters dictaing to the fans. He had a choice a while ago, Kevin Keegan, who has his faults, or Dennis Wise, Keegan the man who brought the best football to Newcastle United seen in living memory, when left to his own devices, or Wise, a man with no Newcastle United connection at all. The majority wanted Keegan, he chose Wise. He alienated himself.I don't want him in charge. I am only a fan like everyone else, but, that is my opinion. Now, if people have a different opinion, fine, it is a free world, sort of, express it, go out and buy banners with' I love Mike Ashley' or 'Cockneys are great' put whatever you want on. You be you and I will be me. Yesterday at Hull. People seem interested as to what happened regarding the banner at Hull yesterday, I will put forward my point of view. At half time, when the players were not on the pitch, obviously, my friend Bernie Kane and I held aloft the banner, some bloke came down and started abusing Bernie, we had words, I said I understood that he had a different opinion but would he leave my banner alone, I shook hands with him, I hope this was captured on cctv as were later events, and I also said as I have said above if he feels so strongly about Ashley, go and get his own banner, this seemed to confuse him. At the end of the game me and Bernie, and Jordon from the Ultras young'uns held up the banner again, the arsewipe appeared again and shouted abuse at me, various things, one of them being 'Barrett, You are a cocksucker', now I do not go around verbally abusing other people and at the age of 52 I do not expect to be abused in that manner, I also defy any man not to snap when subjected to abuse, some have shorter fuses than others, I snapped, I threw three punches at him, I know it was three because the police showed me on video afterwards, not very good punches as I only scuffed his chin with the first one, mind you he was about 6ft 4ins and standing on the step above me, I must improve my technique. Thats what happened. According to the law I should not have done it, in my book he deserved it. I was arrested and charged while he walks away scot free. That's life. I am now banned from the West Ham game next week and face a far longer ban if the Police have there way and I am found guilty later in the month. I am sure this will greatly please some of your members. I have posted on here to explain the banner to people that do not know me very well, 'Barrett is a tool' I believe is one of the comments posted, very constructive, and to defend myself from comments like the previous. Everything I have done regarding the fans of Newcastle United has been done with a good heart, the travel, the flags, the bands, (Mungo Jerry, Happy Cats) the daft records we made for the cup finals, everything. I love Newcastle United! Thank you for your time. Regards, Keith Barrett Support the Toon, it's your Duty ! I Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 Fair enough Keith. Lots of people don't agree with your banner but at the end of the day if they feel strongly enough it's up to them to produce something of their own, not abuse you (on here or in person) for it. Your opinion is what it is, at least you care enough about the club to do make your feelings known. Hopefully you'll continue to browse and post on the forum as well as fighting your corner over this issue. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 Keith Barrett here joining in with your forum. I am one of the 'thick' blokes with the 'Cockney Mafia out' banner. I do not think I represent anyone but myself, I am not a member of NUSC, and I do not wish to be on the telly, despite numerous requests since my mate Graham Robson and I made the giant 'Howay The Lads' flag some years ago.That giant flag took a lot of time, money and effort. The 'Cockney Mafia Out' banner was bought by myself and has been held aloft at various games by me, my 79 year old Dad, my friends Paul Fenning and Bernie Kane. You will notice there are no nicknames here as used by writers on this forum, that's who we are. I first went to St.James's Park in 1962, Plymouth Argyle at home 0-0, I follow my team home and away and have only missed three games in the last seventeen years, these were friendlies. I ran Toon Travel for fifeteen and a half years, providing coaches, trains or planes to every game in that time at a cheaper cost than the club, if they even bothered to put anything on. Whilst running Toon Travel I was also trying to run my haulage business which eventually failed, due somewhat to my travel commitments. My marriage to my southern born wife has also failed, this was down totally to my commitment to Newcastle United and not her. Thats a bit of background about me. The 'Cockney Mafia Out' banner. I fully appreciate that not every Newcastle United fan shares the same view as me, the banner is not aimed at Cockney's in general, I have many Cockney friends, I also fully appreciate that Mike Ashley and Dennis Wise were not born within the sound of Bow bells so they are not 'true' cockneys, ( I could not afford to have Buckinghamshire and Kensington put on the banner, it cost me a hundred pound as it is). I had it made to express my feelings about the people who run our club. I don't want them there, I don't trust them, I think they have shown there true colours, I think they are con men. Dennis Wise was a horrible obnoxious player on the pitch, that everbody hated, he has no affinity with Newcastle United whatsoever.. Mike Ashley has shown contempt for the fans and presumably thinks he can worm his way back into our hearts, he was never in my heart, I do not remember seeing him on the terraces at Plymouth, Shrewsbury or Whrexham supporting the team, he, in my opinion is a con man. Now, I know I have left myself wide open to critisism that previous or future owners have not or will not stand on the terraces, but, I have, Newcastle United have been a major part of my life for forty odd years, I love Newcastle United and the fans, we are adifferent people to anybody else in the country, or used to be at least. I don't want someone who does not understand what Newcastle United means to its supporters dictaing to the fans. He had a choice a while ago, Kevin Keegan, who has his faults, or Dennis Wise, Keegan the man who brought the best football to Newcastle United seen in living memory, when left to his own devices, or Wise, a man with no Newcastle United connection at all. The majority wanted Keegan, he chose Wise. He alienated himself.I don't want him in charge. I am only a fan like everyone else, but, that is my opinion. Now, if people have a different opinion, fine, it is a free world, sort of, express it, go out and buy banners with' I love Mike Ashley' or 'Cockneys are great' put whatever you want on. You be you and I will be me. Yesterday at Hull. People seem interested as to what happened regarding the banner at Hull yesterday, I will put forward my point of view. At half time, when the players were not on the pitch, obviously, my friend Bernie Kane and I held aloft the banner, some bloke came down and started abusing Bernie, we had words, I said I understood that he had a different opinion but would he leave my banner alone, I shook hands with him, I hope this was captured on cctv as were later events, and I also said as I have said above if he feels so strongly about Ashley, go and get his own banner, this seemed to confuse him. At the end of the game me and Bernie, and Jordon from the Ultras young'uns held up the banner again, the arsewipe appeared again and shouted abuse at me, various things, one of them being 'Barrett, You are a cocksucker', now I do not go around verbally abusing other people and at the age of 52 I do not expect to be abused in that manner, I also defy any man not to snap when subjected to abuse, some have shorter fuses than others, I snapped, I threw three punches at him, I know it was three because the police showed me on video afterwards, not very good punches as I only scuffed his chin with the first one, mind you he was about 6ft 4ins and standing on the step above me, I must improve my technique. Thats what happened. According to the law I should not have done it, in my book he deserved it. I was arrested and charged while he walks away scot free. That's life. I am now banned from the West Ham game next week and face a far longer ban if the Police have there way and I am found guilty later in the month. I am sure this will greatly please some of your members. I have posted on here to explain the banner to people that do not know me very well, 'Barrett is a tool' I believe is one of the comments posted, very constructive, and to defend myself from comments like the previous. Everything I have done regarding the fans of Newcastle United has been done with a good heart, the travel, the flags, the bands, (Mungo Jerry, Happy Cats) the daft records we made for the cup finals, everything. I love Newcastle United! Thank you for your time. Regards, Keith Barrett Support the Toon, it's your Duty ! I Good post, I think you'll find that people aren't too keen on the banner because it doesn't go into the detail that you do in the post. I applauded the banner the first time you brought it out but after thinking about it I've changed my mind because it makes us look like small minded idiots. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 Keith Barrett here joining in with your forum. I am one of the 'thick' blokes with the 'Cockney Mafia out' banner. I do not think I represent anyone but myself, I am not a member of NUSC, and I do not wish to be on the telly, despite numerous requests since my mate Graham Robson and I made the giant 'Howay The Lads' flag some years ago.That giant flag took a lot of time, money and effort. The 'Cockney Mafia Out' banner was bought by myself and has been held aloft at various games by me, my 79 year old Dad, my friends Paul Fenning and Bernie Kane. You will notice there are no nicknames here as used by writers on this forum, that's who we are. I first went to St.James's Park in 1962, Plymouth Argyle at home 0-0, I follow my team home and away and have only missed three games in the last seventeen years, these were friendlies. I ran Toon Travel for fifeteen and a half years, providing coaches, trains or planes to every game in that time at a cheaper cost than the club, if they even bothered to put anything on. Whilst running Toon Travel I was also trying to run my haulage business which eventually failed, due somewhat to my travel commitments. My marriage to my southern born wife has also failed, this was down totally to my commitment to Newcastle United and not her. Thats a bit of background about me. The 'Cockney Mafia Out' banner. I fully appreciate that not every Newcastle United fan shares the same view as me, the banner is not aimed at Cockney's in general, I have many Cockney friends, I also fully appreciate that Mike Ashley and Dennis Wise were not born within the sound of Bow bells so they are not 'true' cockneys, ( I could not afford to have Buckinghamshire and Kensington put on the banner, it cost me a hundred pound as it is). I had it made to express my feelings about the people who run our club. I don't want them there, I don't trust them, I think they have shown there true colours, I think they are con men. Dennis Wise was a horrible obnoxious player on the pitch, that everbody hated, he has no affinity with Newcastle United whatsoever.. Mike Ashley has shown contempt for the fans and presumably thinks he can worm his way back into our hearts, he was never in my heart, I do not remember seeing him on the terraces at Plymouth, Shrewsbury or Whrexham supporting the team, he, in my opinion is a con man. Now, I know I have left myself wide open to critisism that previous or future owners have not or will not stand on the terraces, but, I have, Newcastle United have been a major part of my life for forty odd years, I love Newcastle United and the fans, we are adifferent people to anybody else in the country, or used to be at least. I don't want someone who does not understand what Newcastle United means to its supporters dictaing to the fans. He had a choice a while ago, Kevin Keegan, who has his faults, or Dennis Wise, Keegan the man who brought the best football to Newcastle United seen in living memory, when left to his own devices, or Wise, a man with no Newcastle United connection at all. The majority wanted Keegan, he chose Wise. He alienated himself.I don't want him in charge. I am only a fan like everyone else, but, that is my opinion. Now, if people have a different opinion, fine, it is a free world, sort of, express it, go out and buy banners with' I love Mike Ashley' or 'Cockneys are great' put whatever you want on. You be you and I will be me. Yesterday at Hull. People seem interested as to what happened regarding the banner at Hull yesterday, I will put forward my point of view. At half time, when the players were not on the pitch, obviously, my friend Bernie Kane and I held aloft the banner, some bloke came down and started abusing Bernie, we had words, I said I understood that he had a different opinion but would he leave my banner alone, I shook hands with him, I hope this was captured on cctv as were later events, and I also said as I have said above if he feels so strongly about Ashley, go and get his own banner, this seemed to confuse him. At the end of the game me and Bernie, and Jordon from the Ultras young'uns held up the banner again, the arsewipe appeared again and shouted abuse at me, various things, one of them being 'Barrett, You are a cocksucker', now I do not go around verbally abusing other people and at the age of 52 I do not expect to be abused in that manner, I also defy any man not to snap when subjected to abuse, some have shorter fuses than others, I snapped, I threw three punches at him, I know it was three because the police showed me on video afterwards, not very good punches as I only scuffed his chin with the first one, mind you he was about 6ft 4ins and standing on the step above me, I must improve my technique. Thats what happened. According to the law I should not have done it, in my book he deserved it. I was arrested and charged while he walks away scot free. That's life. I am now banned from the West Ham game next week and face a far longer ban if the Police have there way and I am found guilty later in the month. I am sure this will greatly please some of your members. I have posted on here to explain the banner to people that do not know me very well, 'Barrett is a tool' I believe is one of the comments posted, very constructive, and to defend myself from comments like the previous. Everything I have done regarding the fans of Newcastle United has been done with a good heart, the travel, the flags, the bands, (Mungo Jerry, Happy Cats) the daft records we made for the cup finals, everything. I love Newcastle United! Thank you for your time. Regards, Keith Barrett Support the Toon, it's your Duty ! I You don't need to justify yourself mate, I'm more embarrassed about the reaction to the flag from some quarters than the flag itself or rather the message on it. If people object so strongly there is nowt stopping them making their own banners and taking them to the match, although I bet half of those complaining on here and elsewhere don't even go. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robster Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 Fair enough Keith. Lots of people don't agree with your banner but at the end of the day if they feel strongly enough it's up to them to produce something of their own, not abuse you (on here or in person) for it. Your opinion is what it is, at least you care enough about the club to do make your feelings known. Hopefully you'll continue to browse and post on the forum as well as fighting your corner over this issue. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BooBoo Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 Fair enough. I dont agree with it personally but kudos for coming and here and explaining in detail why you do it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 I think that's a great shame about what happened yesterday Keith, it would be a great loss to NUFC's support if you were to be banned. I agree with your Ashley stance as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 Fair enough. I dont agree with it personally but kudos for coming and here and explaining in detail why you do it. Agreed. Don't agree with you at all but it's good of you to come on and give some explanations. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cajun Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 I don't think the "why don't you make your own banner if you disagree" is going the right away about it. We wouldn't look like clowns at all with "Cockney Mafia Out" "Nah they are alright really" "Cockney Mafia In" "Fuck off, Cockenys out" all over the ground Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
indi Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 Keith Barrett here joining in with your forum. I am one of the 'thick' blokes with the 'Cockney Mafia out' banner. I do not think I represent anyone but myself, I am not a member of NUSC, and I do not wish to be on the telly, despite numerous requests since my mate Graham Robson and I made the giant 'Howay The Lads' flag some years ago.That giant flag took a lot of time, money and effort. The 'Cockney Mafia Out' banner was bought by myself and has been held aloft at various games by me, my 79 year old Dad, my friends Paul Fenning and Bernie Kane. You will notice there are no nicknames here as used by writers on this forum, that's who we are. I first went to St.James's Park in 1962, Plymouth Argyle at home 0-0, I follow my team home and away and have only missed three games in the last seventeen years, these were friendlies. I ran Toon Travel for fifeteen and a half years, providing coaches, trains or planes to every game in that time at a cheaper cost than the club, if they even bothered to put anything on. Whilst running Toon Travel I was also trying to run my haulage business which eventually failed, due somewhat to my travel commitments. My marriage to my southern born wife has also failed, this was down totally to my commitment to Newcastle United and not her. Thats a bit of background about me. The 'Cockney Mafia Out' banner. I fully appreciate that not every Newcastle United fan shares the same view as me, the banner is not aimed at Cockney's in general, I have many Cockney friends, I also fully appreciate that Mike Ashley and Dennis Wise were not born within the sound of Bow bells so they are not 'true' cockneys, ( I could not afford to have Buckinghamshire and Kensington put on the banner, it cost me a hundred pound as it is). I had it made to express my feelings about the people who run our club. I don't want them there, I don't trust them, I think they have shown there true colours, I think they are con men. Dennis Wise was a horrible obnoxious player on the pitch, that everbody hated, he has no affinity with Newcastle United whatsoever.. Mike Ashley has shown contempt for the fans and presumably thinks he can worm his way back into our hearts, he was never in my heart, I do not remember seeing him on the terraces at Plymouth, Shrewsbury or Whrexham supporting the team, he, in my opinion is a con man. Now, I know I have left myself wide open to critisism that previous or future owners have not or will not stand on the terraces, but, I have, Newcastle United have been a major part of my life for forty odd years, I love Newcastle United and the fans, we are adifferent people to anybody else in the country, or used to be at least. I don't want someone who does not understand what Newcastle United means to its supporters dictaing to the fans. He had a choice a while ago, Kevin Keegan, who has his faults, or Dennis Wise, Keegan the man who brought the best football to Newcastle United seen in living memory, when left to his own devices, or Wise, a man with no Newcastle United connection at all. The majority wanted Keegan, he chose Wise. He alienated himself.I don't want him in charge. I am only a fan like everyone else, but, that is my opinion. Now, if people have a different opinion, fine, it is a free world, sort of, express it, go out and buy banners with' I love Mike Ashley' or 'Cockneys are great' put whatever you want on. You be you and I will be me. Yesterday at Hull. People seem interested as to what happened regarding the banner at Hull yesterday, I will put forward my point of view. At half time, when the players were not on the pitch, obviously, my friend Bernie Kane and I held aloft the banner, some bloke came down and started abusing Bernie, we had words, I said I understood that he had a different opinion but would he leave my banner alone, I shook hands with him, I hope this was captured on cctv as were later events, and I also said as I have said above if he feels so strongly about Ashley, go and get his own banner, this seemed to confuse him. At the end of the game me and Bernie, and Jordon from the Ultras young'uns held up the banner again, the arsewipe appeared again and shouted abuse at me, various things, one of them being 'Barrett, You are a cocksucker', now I do not go around verbally abusing other people and at the age of 52 I do not expect to be abused in that manner, I also defy any man not to snap when subjected to abuse, some have shorter fuses than others, I snapped, I threw three punches at him, I know it was three because the police showed me on video afterwards, not very good punches as I only scuffed his chin with the first one, mind you he was about 6ft 4ins and standing on the step above me, I must improve my technique. Thats what happened. According to the law I should not have done it, in my book he deserved it. I was arrested and charged while he walks away scot free. That's life. I am now banned from the West Ham game next week and face a far longer ban if the Police have there way and I am found guilty later in the month. I am sure this will greatly please some of your members. I have posted on here to explain the banner to people that do not know me very well, 'Barrett is a tool' I believe is one of the comments posted, very constructive, and to defend myself from comments like the previous. Everything I have done regarding the fans of Newcastle United has been done with a good heart, the travel, the flags, the bands, (Mungo Jerry, Happy Cats) the daft records we made for the cup finals, everything. I love Newcastle United! Thank you for your time. Regards, Keith Barrett Support the Toon, it's your Duty ! I You're entitled to your opinion and regardless of whether I agree with it or anything else the main problem I had with the banner was that when you were parading it around the ground it created an atmosphere that was clearly distracting the players. If you want to make a point to the board then fair enough, but don't do it when the players are on the pitch. Surely we all agree that winning games and getting as many points as possible is more important than anything else and anything that reduces our chances of doing that is a bad idea, don't we? The reason I asked if you were anything to do with NUSC was because if you were then it would have been hypocritical of them to have said what they said about Ashley hijacking "Bobby Robson Day" and then have taken your banner to the game, but as you aren't anything to do with them then that clearly doesn't apply. Fair play for coming on here and giving your reasons, I disagree with you, but respect the lengths you've gone to to support the club. Do you still have the huge flag? If you do why not bring it to the next game? I'm sure everyone would support that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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