Sifu Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 I think he was speaking about swansea play in general this season, not specifically the game against Newcastle. Yeah, think that's what Ben Arfa was getting at. He wants to see us play the passing game like Swansea has done for most of the season (credit to Rodgers like). Not going to take too much from that Ben Arfa interview though tbh. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 I used to have what he said in my sig. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Snrub Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Ben Arfa should start ahead of Obertan and Taylor, I agree. However, talk of binning Pardew is ludicrous. Not neccessarily. If Pardew continues to select his favourites at the expense of far more talented players and it starts effecting our results and performances, serious questions will have to be asked. His man management with Ben Arfa is shocking, constantly having digs in the press and anytime he does get a game, if he's below par he's hauled off asap and not seen again for 3 matches, effectively making him a scapegoat. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JH Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 If if if. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 I think he was speaking about swansea play in general this season, not specifically the game against Newcastle. I think that's what he meant. Interestingly Swansea also played quite well against Spurs iirc. I'm sure one of the Spurs fans who posts here called them the best passing side they'd played all season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 hba and obertan are both shit at wining the ball back, and their work rate are less than impressive. HBA biggest problem is learning when to pass, yes Hatem we know you are skillful, we know you are great at dribbling and also passing, but stop hogging the damn ball, the most irritating thing about Hatem is that he knows how to play a great pass, he even spots the runners but the problem is he doesnt want to pass to them. how many times have we seen him skip past opposition players and then there are one or two of his team mates killing themselves to make that run for his pass and the pass never comes. because he's too busy trying to look good and impress the crowd, and before he knows it he has two or even three defenders around his ankles and he loses the ball. want to impress us Hatem, be a team-player, pass the fucking ball! I agree he holds the ball too long and that's his main fault. I don't remember too many times when "one or two of his team mates killing themselves to make that run for his pass" however. Most of the time they are stood watching while he tries to go it alone. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest michaelfoster Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 just worked out some stats to share with you regarding Ben Arfa, these are in all comps (League, FAC & LC), I am aware stats don't tell the whole story of the match btw but thought id share. % of games won when Ben Arfa was injured: 50% % of games won when Ben Arfa started match: 42% % of games won when Ben Arfa came off bench: 50% % of games won with Ben Arfa as unused sub: 57% Ben Arfa coming on as sub winning when came on and won: 3 (38%) were drawing when came on and won: 2 *1 x ben arfa winning goal, came on once after 25 mins due to injury to Cabaye* (25%) were losing when came on and won: 0 were winning when came on and drew: 0 were drawing when came on and drew: 0 were losing when came on and drew: 0 were winning when came on and lost: 0 were drawing when came on and lost: 1 (13%) were losing when came on and lost: 2 (25%) Overall % of games won without Ben Arfa on pitch: 54% % of games won with Ben Arfa on pitch as starter or sub: 46% Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conjo Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 cool story bro Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cajun Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 just worked out some stats to share with you regarding Ben Arfa, these are in all comps (League, FAC & LC), I am aware stats don't tell the whole story of the match btw but thought id share. % of games won when Ben Arfa was injured: 50% % of games won when Ben Arfa started match: 42% % of games won when Ben Arfa came off bench: 50% % of games won with Ben Arfa as unused sub: 57% Ben Arfa coming on as sub winning when came on and won: 3 were drawing when came on and won: 2 (1 x ben arfa winning goal, came on once after 25 mins due to injury to Cabaye) were losing when came on and won: 0 were winning when came on and drew: 0 were drawing when came on and drew: 0 were losing when came on and drew: 0 were winning when came on and lost: 0 were drawing when came on and lost: 1 were losing when came on and lost: 2 Overall % of games won without Ben Arfa on pitch: 54% % of games won with Ben Arfa on pitch as starter or sub: 46% Again these are pointless stats given the small sample of games he has played in. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest michaelfoster Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 if i did this again after a certain sample of games, what would you say would be fair sample? He's made 9 starts and 8 sub so far btw. Ill do them again at some point though if you think :-) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eliassenfredrik Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 After he's played as much as Obertan/Raylor. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest michaelfoster Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Obertan has made 18 starts, can't really compare to Raylor as he played LB at the start of the season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cajun Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 if i did this again after a certain sample of games, what would you say would be fair sample? He's made 9 starts and 8 sub so far btw. Ill do them again at some point though if you think :-) 1000 starts. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtype Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Stats are always meaningless unless they confirm your opinion. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pata Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 if i did this again after a certain sample of games, what would you say would be fair sample? He's made 9 starts and 8 sub so far btw. Ill do them again at some point though if you think :-) There's too many things affecting the results. It's bit different to start at home against Blackburn compared to Man City away for starters. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ameritoon Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Not a good sample size at all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohmelads Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 After a year out of football with a double leg break, I imagine you would probably need a good run of consecutive games in the team to hit form and fitness. This is generally accepted wisdom for all footballers. Unless you're Ben Arfa. The treatment of this lad is a joke to be honest. He gets a few minutes off the bench here and there, he'll start once in a while, he might even get a goal and an assist and then he's not seen for a few weeks while stars like Shola, Obertan and Peter Lovenkrands strut their stuff. Then he's expected to come in, playing a different position again, and win us the game or else he's dropped for another month due to "poor workrate". To ease the pressure on him, his manager comes out with condescending comments post-match that he doesn't get what our team is about, criticising his workrate all in public of course. All the while, coming back from a broken leg, he's trying to find match fitness, sharpness and form while sat on the subs bench. After weeks on the sidelines, you get the feeling there's a mountain of pressure on him to put in a match winning performance. Without, of course, giving the ball away. Honestly when was the last time this guy had a run of 8, 9, 10 starts in a row? What you need to get up to speed. Two years ago? At his last club, before his leg break? Says it all. And the irony is he has shown flashes of brilliance this season, signs he's an international class player who just needs that fitness and form, that momentum which you get by playing games week in week out. The line about workrate is ironic when you have Shola starting up front. After Pardew's treatment of Tevez and Mascherano, you sense the player may never get his chance at this club and someone else will give him a run of games next season. Well at least we'll still have Shola. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtype Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Don't see how Ben Arfa is in any way comparable to Tevez and Mascherano to be honest. Unless you're trying to make the point that Pardew doesn't like good players, which clearly isn't true. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flip Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Don't see how Ben Arfa is in any way comparable to Tevez and Mascherano to be honest. Unless you're trying to make the point that Pardew doesn't like good players, which clearly isn't true. Why is he not? Most talented player in his squad just like Carlitos was at West Ham. Not saying Pardew doesnt like good players, he jusv doesnt know how to get the best out of them. Hes a classic english manager who knows and loves his graft and committed players. (which amazes me since he gives Obertan playing time). He clearly believes Ben Arfa has no part to play this season or will get his chances as soon as tiote and cabaye are back. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zero Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 So its only one player he didnt trust and already constitute as a manager who dont know using good players? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtype Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Don't see how Ben Arfa is in any way comparable to Tevez and Mascherano to be honest. Unless you're trying to make the point that Pardew doesn't like good players, which clearly isn't true. Why is he not? Most talented player in his squad just like Carlitos was at West Ham. Not saying Pardew doesnt like good players, he jusv doesnt know how to get the best out of them. Hes a classic english manager who knows and loves his graft and committed players. (which amazes me since he gives Obertan playing time). He clearly believes Ben Arfa has no part to play this season or will get his chances as soon as tiote and cabaye are back. Like I Said, Tevez/Mascherano and Ben Arfa have absolutely nothing in common style-wise other than the fact that they're good players. If you're going to claim that Pardew is biased against Ben Arfa because he doesn't like certain kinds of players, there has to be some sort of criteria. Like I said "good player" obviously isn't it, given that he's perfectly fine with playing other good players. You offer two potential answers to this question; a. He doesn't like foreign players. Given that Krul gets in ahead of Forster and Tiote/Cabaye gets in ahead of Guthrie, and Ba/Cisse gets in ahead of Shola, this doesn't seem to be the case. Why is Ben Arfa the only foreign player being discriminated against? b. He doesn't like players who don't graft. This explanation can't really apply to Tevez, given that he grafts the fuck out of every game when he's bothered and Mascherano who also tends to run around like a rabid greyhound. So if your argument is that Pardew has some sort of preconceived bias against a certain type of player that is leading him to treat all of Tevez, Mascherano, and Ben Arfa unfairly, again, you're going to have to tell me what this criteria is because I can't really figure it out. In the absence of that sort of distinction, maybe the question we should be asking is not "what's wrong with Pardew?" but "what's wrong with Ben Arfa?" At the end of the day, I don't really care about this whole song and dance. The desired end state is "win games" not "play Hatem Ben Arfa." I'm sure he has the potential to be good, probably even great, but so do a lot of players. It would be nice if he could make it work here, but If we're achieving the former a reasonable amount of times I'm not really bothered about how we're doing with the latter. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest reefatoon Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Don't see how Ben Arfa is in any way comparable to Tevez and Mascherano to be honest. Unless you're trying to make the point that Pardew doesn't like good players, which clearly isn't true. Why is he not? Most talented player in his squad just like Carlitos was at West Ham. Not saying Pardew doesnt like good players, he jusv doesnt know how to get the best out of them. Hes a classic english manager who knows and loves his graft and committed players. (which amazes me since he gives Obertan playing time). He clearly believes Ben Arfa has no part to play this season or will get his chances as soon as tiote and cabaye are back. Like I Said, Tevez/Mascherano and Ben Arfa have absolutely nothing in common style-wise other than the fact that they're good players. If you're going to claim that Pardew is biased against Ben Arfa because he doesn't like certain kinds of players, there has to be some sort of criteria. Like I said "good player" obviously isn't it, given that he's perfectly fine with playing other good players. You offer two potential answers to this question; a. He doesn't like foreign players. Given that Krul gets in ahead of Forster and Tiote/Cabaye gets in ahead of Guthrie, and Ba/Cisse gets in ahead of Shola, this doesn't seem to be the case. Why is Ben Arfa the only foreign player being discriminated against? b. He doesn't like players who don't graft. This explanation can't really apply to Tevez, given that he grafts the f*** out of every game when he's bothered and Mascherano who also tends to run around like a rabid greyhound. So if your argument is that Pardew has some sort of preconceived bias against a certain type of player that is leading him to treat all of Tevez, Mascherano, and Ben Arfa unfairly, again, you're going to have to tell me what this criteria is because I can't really figure it out. In the absence of that sort of distinction, maybe the question we should be asking is not "what's wrong with Pardew?" but "what's wrong with Ben Arfa?" At the end of the day, I don't really care about this whole song and dance. The desired end state is "win games" not "play Hatem Ben Arfa." I'm sure he has the potential to be good, probably even great, but so do a lot of players. It would be nice if he could make it work here, but If we're achieving the former a reasonable amount of times I'm not really bothered about how we're doing with the latter. Excellent post. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 It would be a very weird manager who was specifically in favour of always leaving out his most talented players. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lush Vlad Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Maybe Pardew is just stubborn? Adament that he can't/won't play on the wing, when his two best NUFC performances have been when playing out wide. Re jigged the entire formation to try and accomodate him and then didn't even play him in his preferred no.10 role. Plays Obertan and Raylor ahead of him on the wing. I suppose they have the 'relish' to play there do they? Madness. Don't have many gripes with AP to be fair, he's doing a great job. But his treatment of HBA so far has been one. Really unimpressed by the whole carry on, he's not had a fair crack of the whip and the players that have been getting minutes ahead of him are poor/average footballers. Fingers crossed he plays against Wolves. Although with AP's post match comments about '3 of our 4 first choice midfield missing' (assuming Raylor, Cabaye and Tiote) I doubt it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hughesy Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Spot on from Oldtype - the brainless and baseless stereotyping of Pardew as some sort of managerial Neanderthal who can't cope with 'flair' players is becoming a bit too regular now. I do sometimes wonder if some posters on here support Ben Arfa or NUFC. For what it's worth - I want Ben Arfa to be playing ahead of Obertan. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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