Hatem Ben Arfa

[Mick]

Tbh I'm not sure if it was us bringing back Ben Arfa too early for his sake or ours, he certainly wasn't sharp in that game and we would have been far better off with a proper striker up top imo.

 

The likely hood is that it doesn't really matter when he returned, he needed an operation and it was only a matter of time before it was going to happen, if he sat las week out we probably would have just delayed the news and the surgery.

 

Should we not have known if that was the case?  I can understand the player not wanting an operation but you would think that our medical staff might have known better.

[midds]

We'll never know if starting Ben Arfa in sub-zero conditions on a plastic pitch in Moscow have contributed to this but it certainly can't have helped things. Not Pardew-bashing for the sheer hell of it but it was an obvious barmy decision at the time. Certainly a risk that shouldn't have been considered let alone taken.

 

Never mind, just get the lad put right and get him fit. If it takes 6 months then so be it.   

 

I'm sure it's a 'risk' most of the posters on here were going wild about at the time.

 

Every fucker is wise after the event. Lets give the club the benefit of the doubt.

 

Personally I thought it was daft to start him in that particular match under those particular circumstances. I was delighted to see him involved but throwing him in from the start was pushing it a bit.

 

No point whiniging about it though, it's done. Get the lad fit by hook or by crook.

 

Twitchy hamstrings hate the cold. I mean that's physio 101.

 

Granted, but if the physio has given it the green light then you take it at face value. It was daft imo but we'll never know what happened so it's hard to apportion blame. I'd have erred on the side of caution but Pardew went for it and it's backfired. Such is life. Get him fit and get him playing asap. 

[Super Duper Branko Strupar]

We'll never know if starting Ben Arfa in sub-zero conditions on a plastic pitch in Moscow have contributed to this but it certainly can't have helped things. Not Pardew-bashing for the sheer hell of it but it was an obvious barmy decision at the time. Certainly a risk that shouldn't have been considered let alone taken.

 

Never mind, just get the lad put right and get him fit. If it takes 6 months then so be it.   

 

I'm sure it's a 'risk' most of the posters on here were going wild about at the time.

 

Every f***er is wise after the event. Lets give the club the benefit of the doubt.

 

Personally I thought it was daft to start him in that particular match under those particular circumstances. I was delighted to see him involved but throwing him in from the start was pushing it a bit.

 

No point whiniging about it though, it's done. Get the lad fit by hook or by crook.

 

Twitchy hamstrings hate the cold. I mean that's physio 101.

 

Granted, but if the physio has given it the green light then you take it at face value. It was daft imo but we'll never know what happened so it's hard to apportion blame. I'd have erred on the side of caution but Pardew went for it and it's backfired. Such is life. Get him fit and get him playing asap. 

 

[Parky]

We'll never know if starting Ben Arfa in sub-zero conditions on a plastic pitch in Moscow have contributed to this but it certainly can't have helped things. Not Pardew-bashing for the sheer hell of it but it was an obvious barmy decision at the time. Certainly a risk that shouldn't have been considered let alone taken.

 

Never mind, just get the lad put right and get him fit. If it takes 6 months then so be it.   

 

I'm sure it's a 'risk' most of the posters on here were going wild about at the time.

 

Every fucker is wise after the event. Lets give the club the benefit of the doubt.

 

Personally I thought it was daft to start him in that particular match under those particular circumstances. I was delighted to see him involved but throwing him in from the start was pushing it a bit.

 

No point whiniging about it though, it's done. Get the lad fit by hook or by crook.

 

Twitchy hamstrings hate the cold. I mean that's physio 101.

Well he might as well fuck off to Spain or somewhere then

 

Players warm uo before every game to prevent muscle injuries and their body temperature is raised throughout the game, that is also physio 101.

 

Think it was a wee bit colder out there than the winter norm here. Plus you can't run naturally on a synthetic pitch. I said in the match thread it was very strange chosing such a freezing game for his first game back.

[Cajun]

Cajun in full on smug mode 

 

He's got nothing to be smug about, Ben Arfa has now made two come-backs from this injury, to have him break down twice is beyond a joke because he couldn't have been fit to return.  We made a mistake the first time and shouldn't have repeated it.  Maybe a hamstring injury is harder to detect than I think, if that's the case then the club may have an excuse.

 

Hamstring injuries have a disproportionately high recurrence rate (google it if you don't believe me). Also I am not smug, just highlighting how ridiculous some of the reactions/desperation to point the finger at Pardew have been.

[Cajun]

We'll never know if starting Ben Arfa in sub-zero conditions on a plastic pitch in Moscow have contributed to this but it certainly can't have helped things. Not Pardew-bashing for the sheer hell of it but it was an obvious barmy decision at the time. Certainly a risk that shouldn't have been considered let alone taken.

 

Never mind, just get the lad put right and get him fit. If it takes 6 months then so be it.   

 

I'm sure it's a 'risk' most of the posters on here were going wild about at the time.

 

Every f***er is wise after the event. Lets give the club the benefit of the doubt.

 

Personally I thought it was daft to start him in that particular match under those particular circumstances. I was delighted to see him involved but throwing him in from the start was pushing it a bit.

 

No point whiniging about it though, it's done. Get the lad fit by hook or by crook.

 

Twitchy hamstrings hate the cold. I mean that's physio 101.

 

Granted, but if the physio has given it the green light then you take it at face value. It was daft imo but we'll never know what happened so it's hard to apportion blame. I'd have erred on the side of caution but Pardew went for it and it's backfired. Such is life. Get him fit and get him playing asap. 

 

[Hanshithispantz]

Tbh I'm not sure if it was us bringing back Ben Arfa too early for his sake or ours, he certainly wasn't sharp in that game and we would have been far better off with a proper striker up top imo.

 

The likely hood is that it doesn't really matter when he returned, he needed an operation and it was only a matter of time before it was going to happen, if he sat las week out we probably would have just delayed the news and the surgery.

 

Should we not have known if that was the case?  I can understand the player not wanting an operation but you would think that our medical staff might have known better.

Probably but I feel it's a bit unfair placing blame on people when I personally don't know how difficult these things are to spot. I mean I have literally no idea what-so-ever.

 

I've got no doubt that bringing a player back on an artificial pitch in freezing cold weather isn't the ideal place to play football either like, but then again if you have a dormant injury there isn't many places that are.

[Parky]

Not suggesting its Pards fault at all. Most of us were desperate to see him play....But it's clear it was a high risk call. -8 wasn't it?

[Parky]

Tbh I'm not sure if it was us bringing back Ben Arfa too early for his sake or ours, he certainly wasn't sharp in that game and we would have been far better off with a proper striker up top imo.

 

The likely hood is that it doesn't really matter when he returned, he needed an operation and it was only a matter of time before it was going to happen, if he sat las week out we probably would have just delayed the news and the surgery.

 

Should we not have known if that was the case?  I can understand the player not wanting an operation but you would think that our medical staff might have known better.

Probably but I feel it's a bit unfair placing blame on people when I personally don't know how difficult these things are to spot. I mean I have literally no idea what-so-ever.

 

I've got no doubt that bringing a player back on an artificial pitch in freezing cold weather isn't the ideal place to play football either like, but then again if you have a dormant injury there isn't many places that are.

 

Every monkey knows artifical pitches stretch hamstrings as the foot slides when stopping.

[Hanshithispantz]

We'll never know if starting Ben Arfa in sub-zero conditions on a plastic pitch in Moscow have contributed to this but it certainly can't have helped things. Not Pardew-bashing for the sheer hell of it but it was an obvious barmy decision at the time. Certainly a risk that shouldn't have been considered let alone taken.

 

Never mind, just get the lad put right and get him fit. If it takes 6 months then so be it.   

 

I'm sure it's a 'risk' most of the posters on here were going wild about at the time.

 

Every fucker is wise after the event. Lets give the club the benefit of the doubt.

 

Personally I thought it was daft to start him in that particular match under those particular circumstances. I was delighted to see him involved but throwing him in from the start was pushing it a bit.

 

No point whiniging about it though, it's done. Get the lad fit by hook or by crook.

 

Twitchy hamstrings hate the cold. I mean that's physio 101.

Well he might as well fuck off to Spain or somewhere then

 

Players warm uo before every game to prevent muscle injuries and their body temperature is raised throughout the game, that is also physio 101.

 

Think it was a wee bit colder out there than the winter norm here. Plus you can't run naturally on a synthetic pitch. I said in the match thread it was very strange chosing such a freezing game for his first game back.

Is that factually true though, really?

 

There's probably a load of evidence that suggests that grass is a better surface to run on but people are acting as though we played the game on a cobbled road

[Super Duper Branko Strupar]

We'll never know if starting Ben Arfa in sub-zero conditions on a plastic pitch in Moscow have contributed to this but it certainly can't have helped things. Not Pardew-bashing for the sheer hell of it but it was an obvious barmy decision at the time. Certainly a risk that shouldn't have been considered let alone taken.

 

Never mind, just get the lad put right and get him fit. If it takes 6 months then so be it.   

 

I'm sure it's a 'risk' most of the posters on here were going wild about at the time.

 

Every f***er is wise after the event. Lets give the club the benefit of the doubt.

 

Personally I thought it was daft to start him in that particular match under those particular circumstances. I was delighted to see him involved but throwing him in from the start was pushing it a bit.

 

No point whiniging about it though, it's done. Get the lad fit by hook or by crook.

 

Twitchy hamstrings hate the cold. I mean that's physio 101.

Well he might as well f*** off to Spain or somewhere then

 

Players warm uo before every game to prevent muscle injuries and their body temperature is raised throughout the game, that is also physio 101.

 

Think it was a wee bit colder out there than the winter norm here. Plus you can't run naturally on a synthetic pitch. I said in the match thread it was very strange chosing such a freezing game for his first game back.

Is that factually true though, really?

 

There's probably a load of evidence that suggests that grass is a better surface to run on but people are acting as though we played the game on a cobbled road

 

No, it's not.

[Hanshithispantz]

Tbh I'm not sure if it was us bringing back Ben Arfa too early for his sake or ours, he certainly wasn't sharp in that game and we would have been far better off with a proper striker up top imo.

 

The likely hood is that it doesn't really matter when he returned, he needed an operation and it was only a matter of time before it was going to happen, if he sat las week out we probably would have just delayed the news and the surgery.

 

Should we not have known if that was the case?  I can understand the player not wanting an operation but you would think that our medical staff might have known better.

Probably but I feel it's a bit unfair placing blame on people when I personally don't know how difficult these things are to spot. I mean I have literally no idea what-so-ever.

 

I've got no doubt that bringing a player back on an artificial pitch in freezing cold weather isn't the ideal place to play football either like, but then again if you have a dormant injury there isn't many places that are.

 

Every monkey knows artifical pitches stretch hamstrings as the foot slides when stopping.

Again is this factually true? And what exactly is the difference in risk to grass?

[midds]

Not suggesting its Pards fault at all. Most of us were desperate to see him play....But it's clear it was a high risk call. -8 wasn't it?

 

I think Pardew got it wrong and risked him at precisely the wrong time but can sort of understand why he did. Don't agree with it but we don't know what the discussions were to come to the decisions in the first place. 

[Parky]

Tbh I'm not sure if it was us bringing back Ben Arfa too early for his sake or ours, he certainly wasn't sharp in that game and we would have been far better off with a proper striker up top imo.

 

The likely hood is that it doesn't really matter when he returned, he needed an operation and it was only a matter of time before it was going to happen, if he sat las week out we probably would have just delayed the news and the surgery.

 

Should we not have known if that was the case?  I can understand the player not wanting an operation but you would think that our medical staff might have known better.

Probably but I feel it's a bit unfair placing blame on people when I personally don't know how difficult these things are to spot. I mean I have literally no idea what-so-ever.

 

I've got no doubt that bringing a player back on an artificial pitch in freezing cold weather isn't the ideal place to play football either like, but then again if you have a dormant injury there isn't many places that are.

 

Every monkey knows artifical pitches stretch hamstrings as the foot slides when stopping.

Again is this factually true? And what exactly is the difference in risk to grass?

 

They counter it by putting sand under the turf. BUT in very cold weather the sand freezes and is useless.

[TherealnorthernTOON]

How can people in the even slightest blame Pardew for a medical condition like that? A freak injury at it's worst. Hatem didn't do anything on that plastic turf, almost didn't even run even.

[Parky]

Not suggesting its Pards fault at all. Most of us were desperate to see him play....But it's clear it was a high risk call. -8 wasn't it?

 

I think Pardew got it wrong and risked him at precisely the wrong time but can sort of understand why he did. Don't agree with it but we don't know what the discussions were to come to the decisions in the first place. 

 

Pards: I'm thinking of growing a beard.

hatem: Boss this pitch is suicide for me hamstring...

pards: Maybe shave the sides a bit to give it some coutours...

hatem: Boss?

pards: Oh look it will match the snow...

hatem: I'll get changed boss.

pards: What? yeah yeah...

 

[midds]

Not suggesting its Pards fault at all. Most of us were desperate to see him play....But it's clear it was a high risk call. -8 wasn't it?

 

I think Pardew got it wrong and risked him at precisely the wrong time but can sort of understand why he did. Don't agree with it but we don't know what the discussions were to come to the decisions in the first place. 

 

Pards: I'm thinking of growing a beard.

hatem: Boss this pitch is suicide for me hamstring...

pards: Maybe shave the sides a bit to give it some coutours...

hatem: Boss?

pards: Oh look it will be it will match the snow...

hatem: I'll get changed boss.

pards: What? yeah yeah...

 

[Mick]

 

 

Hamstring injuries have a disproportionately high recurrence rate (google it if you don't believe me). Also I am not smug, just highlighting how ridiculous some of the reactions/desperation to point the finger at Pardew have been.

 

I didn't say that you were being smug, as for the injury, is it not detectable?  I would be amazed if it can't be detected in this day and age.

[Parky]

How can people in the even slightest blame Pardew for a medical condition like that? A freak injury at it's worst. Hatem didn't do anything on that plastic turf, almost didn't even run even.

 

Yeah cause he wasn't ready.

[Hanshithispantz]

Tbh I'm not sure if it was us bringing back Ben Arfa too early for his sake or ours, he certainly wasn't sharp in that game and we would have been far better off with a proper striker up top imo.

 

The likely hood is that it doesn't really matter when he returned, he needed an operation and it was only a matter of time before it was going to happen, if he sat las week out we probably would have just delayed the news and the surgery.

 

Should we not have known if that was the case?  I can understand the player not wanting an operation but you would think that our medical staff might have known better.

Probably but I feel it's a bit unfair placing blame on people when I personally don't know how difficult these things are to spot. I mean I have literally no idea what-so-ever.

 

I've got no doubt that bringing a player back on an artificial pitch in freezing cold weather isn't the ideal place to play football either like, but then again if you have a dormant injury there isn't many places that are.

 

Every monkey knows artifical pitches stretch hamstrings as the foot slides when stopping.

Again is this factually true? And what exactly is the difference in risk to grass?

 

They counter it by putting sand under the turf. BUT in very cold weather the sand freezes and is useless.

I thought the sand was for shock absorption? Anyway I'm not in any position to argue the pros and cons of either as I genuinely don't know, I just think that evidence suggests that Ben Arfa's hamstring was pretty much a ticking time bomb, it sounds like he's needed the operation all along.

[Parky]

Tbh I'm not sure if it was us bringing back Ben Arfa too early for his sake or ours, he certainly wasn't sharp in that game and we would have been far better off with a proper striker up top imo.

 

The likely hood is that it doesn't really matter when he returned, he needed an operation and it was only a matter of time before it was going to happen, if he sat las week out we probably would have just delayed the news and the surgery.

 

Should we not have known if that was the case?  I can understand the player not wanting an operation but you would think that our medical staff might have known better.

Probably but I feel it's a bit unfair placing blame on people when I personally don't know how difficult these things are to spot. I mean I have literally no idea what-so-ever.

 

I've got no doubt that bringing a player back on an artificial pitch in freezing cold weather isn't the ideal place to play football either like, but then again if you have a dormant injury there isn't many places that are.

 

Every monkey knows artifical pitches stretch hamstrings as the foot slides when stopping.

Again is this factually true? And what exactly is the difference in risk to grass?

 

They counter it by putting sand under the turf. BUT in very cold weather the sand freezes and is useless.

I thought the sand was for shock absorption? Anyway I'm not in any position to argue the pros and cons of either as I genuinely don't know, I just think that evidence suggests that Ben Arfa's hamstring was pretty much a ticking time bomb, it sounds like he's needed the operation all along.

 

Sand is to make the impact more natural wether it  be impact or purchase. Might as well have just sent him out on an ice rink. 

[Cajun]

Purely out of interest can those who know how the difference in temperature (8 degrees) and the pitch have exacerbated the hamstring injury provide evidence that extends further than "well it's obvious!"?

 

Just to shut me up if anything see to me it just seems like one of these Mackem "facts" that one person brings up then everyone claims it to be true.

 

Given the medical team had passed him fit to play it would reassure me that as a forum we have posters more qualified to asses the injury, so I know who to believe in future

[Super Duper Branko Strupar]

 

 

Hamstring injuries have a disproportionately high recurrence rate (google it if you don't believe me). Also I am not smug, just highlighting how ridiculous some of the reactions/desperation to point the finger at Pardew have been.

 

I didn't say that you were being smug, as for the injury, is it not detectable?  I would be amazed if it can't be detected in this day and age.

 

It's obviously not an 'injury' in the standard sense of the term, though. He can run, he feels no pain (from past interviews anyway, things may have changed). It's a scar tissue issue, it's a problem in the healing of his muscle by the sounds of things. Muscles are just bunches of fibres, they tear and then heal, it's a perfectly natural process. This one has complications. It doesn't sound like an issue that actually currently affects his running etc, but not operated on will do in future. Sometimes you can't see in to the future.

[Hanshithispantz]

Tbh I'm not sure if it was us bringing back Ben Arfa too early for his sake or ours, he certainly wasn't sharp in that game and we would have been far better off with a proper striker up top imo.

 

The likely hood is that it doesn't really matter when he returned, he needed an operation and it was only a matter of time before it was going to happen, if he sat las week out we probably would have just delayed the news and the surgery.

 

Should we not have known if that was the case?  I can understand the player not wanting an operation but you would think that our medical staff might have known better.

Probably but I feel it's a bit unfair placing blame on people when I personally don't know how difficult these things are to spot. I mean I have literally no idea what-so-ever.

 

I've got no doubt that bringing a player back on an artificial pitch in freezing cold weather isn't the ideal place to play football either like, but then again if you have a dormant injury there isn't many places that are.

 

Every monkey knows artifical pitches stretch hamstrings as the foot slides when stopping.

Again is this factually true? And what exactly is the difference in risk to grass?

 

They counter it by putting sand under the turf. BUT in very cold weather the sand freezes and is useless.

I thought the sand was for shock absorption? Anyway I'm not in any position to argue the pros and cons of either as I genuinely don't know, I just think that evidence suggests that Ben Arfa's hamstring was pretty much a ticking time bomb, it sounds like he's needed the operation all along.

 

Sand is to make the impact more natural wether it  be impact or purchase. Might as well have just sent him out on an ice rink. 

I know you're half been tongue in cheek Parky, but aren't the considering bringing the 3G pitches to England? I know it won't be as good as grass, but I cannot believe that there would be any serious consideration if it was a genuine concern.

[Super Duper Branko Strupar]

Purely out of interest can those who know how the difference in temperature (8 degrees) and the pitch have exacerbated the hamstring injury provide evidence that extends further than "well it's obvious!"?

 

Muscles perform better when warm. If it's cold it restricts the movement available in the muscles.

 

Funnily enough, however, cold is a good healer.