Guest mimifrench Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 hba and obertan are both s*** at wining the ball back, and their work rate are less than impressive. HBA biggest problem is learning when to pass, yes Hatem we know you are skillful, we know you are great at dribbling and also passing, but stop hogging the damn ball, the most irritating thing about Hatem is that he knows how to play a great pass, he even spots the runners but the problem is he doesnt want to pass to them. how many times have we seen him skip past opposition players and then there are one or two of his team mates killing themselves to make that run for his pass and the pass never comes. because he's too busy trying to look good and impress the crowd, and before he knows it he has two or even three defenders around his ankles and he loses the ball. want to impress us Hatem, be a team-player, pass the f***ing ball! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hatem garrincha Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 hba and obertan are both s*** at wining the ball back, and their work rate are less than impressive. HBA biggest problem is learning when to pass, yes Hatem we know you are skillful, we know you are great at dribbling and also passing, but stop hogging the damn ball, the most irritating thing about Hatem is that he knows how to play a great pass, he even spots the runners but the problem is he doesnt want to pass to them. how many times have we seen him skip past opposition players and then there are one or two of his team mates killing themselves to make that run for his pass and the pass never comes. because he's too busy trying to look good and impress the crowd, and before he knows it he has two or even three defenders around his ankles and he loses the ball. want to impress us Hatem, be a team-player, pass the f***ing ball! Good post. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnypd Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 even with Ben Arfa's faults he's still a far better player than the alternatives. he should be given a dozen or so games to get into a groove and settle into the side regardless of how he performs in any one match. he needs to have the confidence that the manager will pick him over a long period of time rather than the insecurity that one misplaced pass and you are out or one game where you don't create and you are out. that's what obertan had earlier in the season basically getting picked 16 or 17 times straight when fit. only that way will he start to play more naturally, and hell, even if he doesn't and continues to try and do everything by himself, he's still twice the player raylor or obertan are. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
High Five o Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 even with Ben Arfa's faults he's still a far better player than the alternatives. he should be given a dozen or so games to get into a groove and settle into the side regardless of how he performs in any one match. he needs to have the confidence that the manager will pick him over a long period of time rather than the insecurity that one misplaced pass and you are out or one game where you don't create and you are out. that's what obertan had earlier in the season basically getting picked 16 or 17 times straight when fit. only that way will he start to play more naturally, and hell, even if he doesn't and continues to try and do everything by himself, he's still twice the player raylor or obertan are. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Ben Arfa would walk into this side under any other manager. Tooj is right, under KK and Sir Bobby in particular, he would be made the star man and would return such confidence in him with the very things he has brought to this side whenever he does play, goals and assists. As for his work-rate, at home to Blackburn in the FA Cup he worked as hard as any in the side on and off the ball. He does track back too. What he does do that goes against him is that he will loose you the ball cheaply, needlesly and in dangerous areas, but you have to weigh that up with what he can do and what he can do is what he did to Blackburn, Bolton or Everton last season. If Pardew cannot find a place for Ben Arfa in this side, a supremely talented player of Champions League and international class, who would set this league alight given games, then I'd rather we got shot of the manager than a player like this. The likes of Ben Arfa can take you up a level or two, like Robert and Bellamy did. Its massively worrying that he continues to use players that simply do not perform. Shola, Obertan, they do not perform. He uses safe players like Ryan Taylor ahead of Ben Arfa, at home, against lesser sides. This shows poor man management and tactical skills. Its worrying. I can see sense in not using him in certain situations and against certain sides but the alarm bells should ring loudly when he's on the bench against the likes of QPR and Villa at home, while Ryan Taylor starts. Its like starting Williamson instead of Colo or Shola instead of Ba. Its ridiculous and needs sorting ASAP if we are to improve as a team, improve out football, and get the best out of a player who by rights, we had no right in getting given his talents and pedigree, especially as a newly promoted side at the time. Clubs like ours cannot afford to allow such talents to be wasting away on the bench, not when the alternatives are fucking Ryan Tylor (a right-back all his career mainly) or Obertan who shouldn't even be a footballer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iwantcurlyhair2 Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 HBA has scored arguably the best 2 goals of for the last 2 seasons. He is undoubtably the most talented individual player at the club. At the moment though I can understand that Pardew feels he that we, as a team, are not strong enough to cover for his attack minded play. The problem is not with HBA it is with the less than mediocre players that we have. We are carrying a full back, blooding in a better full back on the other side, playing a lower team standard centre half and without Tiote and Cabaye, have a soft midfield. Hatem must play further forward or our defence and midfield will really struggle. Try Guthrie alongside T and C with the Ba, Cisse and HBA up front and our defence will struggle until the FB's raise their game. Pardew must have explained this to HBA and told him next season will be his time. Pardew has to have to much experience just to let him play every now and again, without explaining the long term plan to him. Saying that look how often he played both Argentinians at West Ham Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 From my point of view, Pardew could at least put him with the reserve... Don't you think so? Careful now, you might be called a troll and a WUM for suggesting such a thing!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 It's right to say other managers like KK and Robson would probably have built the team around HBA, but I think it's also important to realise how the situation with Pardew and Ben Arfa came about. HBA was injured for a long time, and during that time Pardew managed to hit on a system that elevated us into the upper echelons of the table. It even returned some pretty good results against top teams. So I can see why Pardew has decided to side with the status quo - and in this case that means HBA doesn't have a clear role to play. The problem with our unexpected success this season is the fear of losing it. Like people have said, I just hope HBA is being managed well behind the scenes and will play a big role eventually. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mimifrench Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 From my point of view, Pardew could at least put him with the reserve... Don't you think so? Careful now, you might be called a troll and a WUM for suggesting such a thing!! Wasn't being that serious saying it, but do you have other suggestions? Like I said, he didn't play even a minute in the last 2 games and your next match is 25th Feb, so....................................... I just wonder how he can become/stay fit (don't tell me with training session please). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 At the moment though I can understand that Pardew feels he that we, as a team, are not strong enough to cover for his attack minded play. I'm not buying this complete and utter bull s*** about covering for such an attack minded player when we effectively play with 10 men whenever Shola is on the pitch or Obertan who offer us nothing whereas Ben Arfa at least offers us something, namely the very things that win you games, i.e. goals and assists. Pardew does not select Ben Arfa because he doesn't know how to utilise such a player and probably doesn't like that kind of player. That and there has probably been a fall out between the two or words at least. If he's into his detail as much as he claims and as much as others state, Pardew would recognise just with his own eyes never mind stats, that Obertan gives us nothing in an attacking sense, offers very little protection for his full-back (see yesterday) and in terms of ball retention is likely to give it away more than keep it. Ben Arfa on the other hand will turn a defeat into a win or a draw into a win. He will get you goals and create goals. He will excite the crowd which in turn can help massively. A noisy, buzzing up for it crowd can help a team across the line or even frighten the opposition. The crowd willed us through each goal against Arsenal for example. Helped us beat Man Utd. Helped us prevent Spurs from beating us at SJP. They frightened the lives out of the mackems during the 5-1 with the anomosity, hatred and sheer support for the Toon. When pardew put Ben Arfa on the bench against QPR following his exploits against Blackburn it was akin to popping a birthday boy's ballons or blowing out his candles for him. His act was the act of a part pooper. He put a 50K crowd ona downer before a ball had been kicked and that helped QPR massively. Even one of their players in the post match interviews said the crowd being quiet helped. I'd be livid if I were the board after all the hard work thay put in to get the player here on loan, then through his injury and then to sign him, only to see him f***ing sat on the bench while the likes of Taylor and Obertan play, the latter offering f*** all but lols whenever he plays. It makes me angry to see Ben Arfa on the bench for Obertan. Taylor fair enough against Man Utd, but against QPR and Villa? Nah. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 That and there has probably been a fall out between the two or words at least. There's no evidence of that really, in fact pretty much the opposite. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
M4 Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Top stuff HTT Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sifu Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 It's right to say other managers like KK and Robson would probably have built the team around HBA, but I think it's also important to realise how the situation with Pardew and Ben Arfa came about. HBA was injured for a long time, and during that time Pardew managed to hit on a system that elevated us into the upper echelons of the table. It even returned some pretty good results against top teams. So I can see why Pardew has decided to side with the status quo - and in this case that means HBA doesn't have a clear role to play. The problem with our unexpected success this season is the fear of losing it. Like people have said, I just hope HBA is being managed well behind the scenes and will play a big role eventually. Very good points there. In pre-season, I reckon Pardew knew where and how he was going to play Ben Arfa this season. Thus, you could say that Hatem's injury in the US was a setback for Pardew as he had to throw all his initial plans regarding the system out the window. This meant that he basically had to start again and develop an entirely different one, one which has turned out to have served us well for most of this season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Totally agree HTT. I cannot understand why HBA seems to be the first to get pulled up yet other players enjoy long spells in the side despite underperforming. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eliassenfredrik Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 HTT Agree with every word. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
STM Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Yes let's just sack Pards, so another manager will play Ben Arfa. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 It's right to say other managers like KK and Robson would probably have built the team around HBA, but I think it's also important to realise how the situation with Pardew and Ben Arfa came about. HBA was injured for a long time, and during that time Pardew managed to hit on a system that elevated us into the upper echelons of the table. It even returned some pretty good results against top teams. So I can see why Pardew has decided to side with the status quo - and in this case that means HBA doesn't have a clear role to play. The problem with our unexpected success this season is the fear of losing it. Like people have said, I just hope HBA is being managed well behind the scenes and will play a big role eventually. You make some good points and that could be a reason but even if it is that is a poor reason nonetheless because again, only a half wit would look at Obertan and Ben Arfa and pick Obertan. It also shows poor form on behalf of Pardew because since the off he's always said when Ben Arfa is fit he's going to be a big hit for this club and is someone he'll try to build a side around. That hasn't happened and that's because he's not getting picked. Furthermore, who is to say we wouldn't have performed even better when Ben Arfa was out, had he been fit and available during that time? His stats at least suggest he would have contributed more in terms of goals and assists than some, and we all know goals win games. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlito Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 The thing that annoys me is that the 'requirements' Pardew has set in place only seem to apply to HBA, whilst the likes of Obertan get extended runs in the team, despite being absolutely gash on a worryingly consistent basis. Totally agree with you by the way, HTT. Good post. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 I agree with a lot of that post like (only in a less vitriolic way, maybe ) but getting rid of Pardew is not the answer, I just hope he learns to be a bid more open minded with his team selections and subs. He's hardly a new manager, but this is only his 2nd stint in the Premiership so i'm still holding onto hope that it could happen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hatem garrincha Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 When pardew put Ben Arfa on the bench against QPR following his exploits against Blackburn it was akin to popping a birthday boy's ballons or blowing out his candles for him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 I basically agree with HTT too, I'm Ben Arfa's biggest fan and I would love to see him start every game. All I'm saying really is that Pardew isn't a fan, he's a manager and a professional. He has generated results without HBA and I can (sort of) see why he wants to stick to it. On an individual level obviously Ben Arfa is in another galaxy to most of our other players. But it might not be about individuals, it might be about a team that has proven its ability to get into the top 6. (FWIW I think the dropping against QPR was very odd as well) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eliassenfredrik Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 If it's about the team, then why does Obertan start games? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 I still think Obertan is ahead of HBA because it was a Pardew signing unlike the others which were initiated by Graham Carr. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prophet Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Ben Arfa should start ahead of Obertan and Taylor, I agree. However, talk of binning Pardew is ludicrous. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 I wouldn't say Pardew was THAT callus like (playing a player just because he signed him), I just think he sees team shape as the most important aspect when picking a squad, and the actual talent of the players filling the squad comes second. I suppose it's more shit pegs in round holes as opposed to square ones. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts