Vurnon Anita (now playing for RKC Waalwijk)

[Ronaldo]

Midfielders are there to make an impact going backwards and forwards as far as I'm concerned. I can't live with two players in there who go missing in the final third. Anita's perfectly capable of utilising his movement as a deep lying CM, anyway, he just needs two relatively capable midfielders - in an attacking sense - to negate his weaknesses.

[Tiresias]

Midfielders are there to make an impact going backwards and forwards as far as I'm concerned. I can't live with two players in there who go missing in the final third. Anita's perfectly capable of utilising his movement as a deep lying CM, anyway, he just needs two relatively capable midfielders - in an attacking sense - to negate his weaknesses.

 

[Hughesy]

He's a good little player but for me he's only viable in a 433 playing as the deepest player in midfield covering the fullbacks and the space in front of the defence.

 

Disagree, IMO he's better with a proper DM where his job is to keep the ball moving. A bit like Lucas and Allen at Liverpool.

 

You can't have 2 out of the 3 midfielders having no goal threat or creativity whatsoever. It just doesn't work.

 

Course you can, if you have an attacking midfielder and 3 forwards.

 

Agree with this.

[Ronaldo]

Head, clouds.

[Hughesy]

I am not sure what your point is - is your point that Anita cannot play alongside a DM or that, under Pardew, we would not play enough attacking players to make this viable?  Because they are two completely different points.

[Ronaldo]

I don't think completely absolving two starting midfielders of creative/scoring duty is feasible for any club who don't have 3 world class attacking players in front of them. It certainly isn't viable at Newcastle United.

[Hughesy]

It is viable if you were playing 4-4-2 and had two wingers and intelligent strikers.  It could work if you were playing 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3.  It can work - you just have to get the proper personnel in to do it.

[Ronaldo]

When has it ever worked in a 4-4-2?

[AyeDubbleYoo]

I get your point in theory Ronaldo, but we have the personnel we have. If we're talking about addressing our weaknesses then we should just get the attacking players we need to be more dangerous. It's not really about Anita at all.

[Ronaldo]

I've said, I'd happily play Anita as the deepest midfielder.

[Hughesy]

When has it ever worked in a 4-4-2?

 

It depends if you are genuinely proposing that the two central midfielders don't create anything at all - which is highly unlikely.  I think we are getting into comparing slightly odd variations of formations, but in any 4-4-2 formation with two defensive central midfielders you would have a set up with wingers and it is likely that one of the strikers would drop back into midfield.

 

But as an example, I think Sacchi's Milan team used a 4-4-2 formation without particularly creative central midfielders.  Atletico Madrid play a variant of 4-4-2/4-2-3-1 with two defensive midfielders.

[Ronaldo]

So, at best, it's never worked in the PL.

[Hughesy]

Arsenal with Vieira and Petit.  That's one PL example.  I am sure there are others if I was to think about it.

 

I still haven't quite worked out the point of this argument though.  Having 4 attacking players can be enough (ie two wingers and two strikers).  As I have said, it is likely that one of your strikers would play a more withdrawn role and play a more 'Beardsley-esque' role which would effectively create a 4-2-3-1 at times.

[Ronaldo]

Arsenal with Vieira and Petit.

 

:lol:

 

As if Viera and Petit had no scoring or creative duties, man.

[Pilko]

If you're going to have one of your three central midfielders in the Anita mould (keeps side ticking over, great energy/pressing, mobile, excellent short passing, distribution, not overly physical but a fair tackler, little to no attacking impetus) then at least one of the other ones has to have a very good range of long passing and an eye for the 'killer/key pass', even from deep. Tiote ticks the boxes with strength, tenacity, tackling and the ability to generally spoil if required, but doesn't fulfil that role absolutely in the slightest.

 

That role was filled by Cabaye, and now it's fucking Dan Gosling. Go figure.

[Hughesy]

Arsenal with Vieira and Petit.

 

:lol:

 

As if Viera and Petit had no scoring or creative duties, man.

They were most certainly primarily there as defensive midfielders. Sure they were both box to box midfielders but their primary function was to defend. Vieira and Petit scored a total of 4 goals in their double winning season. :)

[The College Dropout]

Anita and Tiote is overkill on the defensive side actually, no reason he couldn't play alongside a deeplying playmaker and we'd not be overexposed imo. I also think Anita could develop more of a cutting edge and work better forward with some work.

 

I think the two with a proper AM worked very well. Throw in a real striker - some attacking wide men and we are laughing.

 

Without a genuinely creative player (e.g. not Colback) it's too lacking I agree. I don't want to see Tiote-Anita-Colback in the same side.

[Hughesy]

Anita and Tiote is overkill on the defensive side actually, no reason he couldn't play alongside a deeplying playmaker and we'd not be overexposed imo. I also think Anita could develop more of a cutting edge and work better forward with some work.

 

I think the two with a proper AM worked very well. Throw in a real striker - some attacking wide men and we are laughing.

 

Without a genuinely creative player (e.g. not Colback) it's too lacking I agree. I don't want to see Tiote-Anita-Colback in the same side.

 

This basically.

[Guest bimpy474]

All pointless unless we get rid of fuckface in the dugout. Actually attacking might help us like.

[The College Dropout]

Arsenal with Vieira and Petit.

 

:lol:

 

As if Viera and Petit had no scoring or creative duties, man.

 

I agree with Hughesy. Both were excellent passers but neither genuinely creative or a consistent goal threat.

 

City moved to Fernandinho - Garcia double when Aguero went off. Fernandinho can be creative but in that system he's there to allow the two wide players and Yaya to create magic while keeping it tight.

 

Even 2002 Brazil had Gilberto Silva - Kleberson double pivot again - to allow the attacking 3 to do their thing.

 

I agree fully that most 4-4-2 or 4-2-3-1 formations tend to have two midfielders who don't have much responsibility to create or score. I'm happy with Tiote-Anita as long as there's genuinely an attacking midfielder in front of them and some wingers with some "threat".

[Ste]

In a 4-4-2, I'd like to have two box-to-box midfielders competent at threatening the opposition and offering cover in a defensive position. I don't think Anita is a 4-4-2 player. 4-3-3, 4-2-3-1, absolutely.

 

I really like Anita. He's assured, he wants the ball and he's got a good passing range. You'd only see him improve playing for a manager that understands the strengths of his players and chooses a system accordingly.

[Jimburst]

Arsenal with Vieira and Petit.

 

:lol:

 

As if Viera and Petit had no scoring or creative duties, man.

 

I agree with Hughesy. Both were excellent passers but neither genuinely creative or a consistent goal threat.

 

City moved to Fernandinho - Garcia double when Aguero went off. Fernandinho can be creative but in that system he's there to allow the two wide players and Yaya to create magic while keeping it tight.

 

Even 2002 Brazil had Gilberto Silva - Kleberson double pivot again - to allow the attacking 3 to do their thing.

 

I agree fully that most 4-4-2 or 4-2-3-1 formations tend to have two midfielders who don't have much responsibility to create or score. I'm happy with Tiote-Anita as long as there's genuinely an attacking midfielder in front of them and some wingers with some "threat".

 

Anita is mobile enough and moves the ball up the field fairly quickly to be part of that defensive two. I'd rather the other defensive midfielder was someone a bit smarter (and more aerially dominant) than Tiote, but he's not the first thing we need to fix in our lineup.

[buzza]

Anita and Tiote is overkill on the defensive side actually, no reason he couldn't play alongside a deeplying playmaker and we'd not be overexposed imo. I also think Anita could develop more of a cutting edge and work better forward with some work.

 

I think the two with a proper AM worked very well. Throw in a real striker - some attacking wide men and we are laughing.

 

Without a genuinely creative player (e.g. not Colback) it's too lacking I agree. I don't want to see Tiote-Anita-Colback in the same side.

Agree, the 4231 formation with Cabaye as the "attacking midfielder" worked to perfection for us. You do need an outstanding centre forward for this to work well (see Remy). Keep Anita and Tiote together in deeper positions where they work in their optimum positions...

[colinmk]

Anita is a brilliant wee player, he plays that role so well. I'd be surprised if there aren't proper football teams looking at him.

[Ronaldo]

Arsenal with Vieira and Petit.

 

:lol:

 

As if Viera and Petit had no scoring or creative duties, man.

They were most certainly primarily there as defensive midfielders. Sure they were both box to box midfielders but their primary function was to defend. Vieira and Petit scored a total of 4 goals in their double winning season. :)

 

You've just made my case. Box-to-box midfielders who scored goals and helped make them. Anyone who thinks we can play genuinely attacking football with Tiote and Anita as the CM needs talking to.