The Managerial Merry Go Round™ - Ivan Juric to Southampton

[Shak]

Jesse Marsch?

 

Jesse Darsch is more like it.

 

[Big River]

9 minutes ago, gdm said:

You should have a look at their forum matching on together. Overwhelming majority wanted him out before & after their game yesterday 

 

 ah well in that case.

 

overwhelming majority of our fans think Schar is left footed, would be good as a DM, and Murphy should play RB.

[Froggy]

Not having a go at you either BTW @HUGZ I've just genuinely never understood the incredibly high opinion of him.

 

Wasn't meaning to take it back to Man United either just expressing what I felt was an honest comparison.

[SiLvOR]

14 minutes ago, HUGZ said:

 

 ah well in that case.

 

overwhelming majority of our fans think Schar is left footed, would be good as a DM, and Murphy should play RB.

Awful take. Everyone knows Schar would be a brilliant CAM.

[JeffJ]

10 minutes ago, HUGZ said:

 

 ah well in that case.

 

overwhelming majority of our fans think Schar is left footed, would be good as a DM, and Murphy should play RB.

Online forums, a true representation of a fan base  

 

Got a few mates who are home and away match going Leeds fans and are absolutely gutted, said mass majority have done nothing but back Bielsa. 

 

Not many of those online fans calling for Bielsa’s head seemed to go to games it would seem. 

[Froggy]

5 minutes ago, JeffJ said:

Online forums, a true representation of a fan base  

 

 

Erm... 

[Manxst]

5 minutes ago, JeffJ said:

Online forums, a true representation of a fan base  

 

Got a few mates who are home and away match going Leeds fans and are absolutely gutted, said mass majority have done nothing but back Bielsa. 

 

Not many of those online fans calling for Bielsa’s head seemed to go to games it would seem. 

Apart from those that booed him off yesterday? Media reports say it was evident. 

[Ashley17]

I see a lot of similarities in the relationship between Bielsa and Leeds as with Rafa and us. He just got it and was loads better than his predecessors. The Leeds fans I know are gutted, at least Marsch is quite a respectable choice as opposed to where we went next

[Dinho lad]

2 hours ago, joeyt said:

 

He got them up after making the playoffs and then winning the league comfortably. No other manager at Leeds had done that since they were relegated

 

He then kept them up comfirtably last season and was on course to do the same this season until the last few weeks

 

He got two Leeds players into the England squad too. I'm not sure how that's a 'half done job'?

 

He got them up eventually. His first season ended in a disappointment considering how well they started. I'm sure had this happened to Rafa, we would have been annoyed at him. What's the point in comparing him to previous Leeds managers anyway? It's about the players he has/had for selection and how he manages them. He achieved promotion at the second attempt, yes. 

 

Last season he also did well, but so what? Again, it wasn't necessarily unexpected. He had decent players. Also everyone knows promoted teams can overachieve until the second season syndrome comes about.  

 

If you look back on his managerial career, you will surely notice themes of huge promise but not many significant achievements - apart from great football and dissemination of great philosophy. But people talk about him almost like he's one of the elites. He's a good manager but is overrated and this largely down to the 'halo effect', frankly. 

 

BTW, Nigel Pearson knew and influenced Vardy towards England selection - so what?

 

 

Edited February 27, 2022 by Dinho lad

[TRon]

20 minutes ago, Froggy said:

Not having a go at you either BTW @HUGZ I've just genuinely never understood the incredibly high opinion of him.

 

Wasn't meaning to take it back to Man United either just expressing what I felt was an honest comparison.

 

You loved Ole. Why would anyone take your opinion seriously?

[midds]

Not quite sure how anyone goes in there and manages to completely reverse the entire culture and philosophy of Bielsa in a dozen games. They're clearly wide open and shipping goals hand over fist and stopping that detracts from everything he stood for and believed in. Changing that in a few weeks? Nah they're fucked even if Bamford and Phillips come back soon. 

 

They were a joy to watch and very very entertaining which appealed to neutrals and they rightly got heaps of praise. People wanted to watch their games, they were popular and Bielsa was a character. Neutrals engaged but for one reason or another, probably injuries to key players, it's fallen apart and he can't rectify it. Whoever comes in next is on a hiding to nothing and will take them down imo. Long way back after that. 

[The Bonk]

Football is theatre and Bielsa is a character as he’s unique, not cut from any particular mold but his own.

 

I love watching him pace the sidelines, perched on a cooler, with his naff beanie and trackie, so entrenched in the game unfolding in front of him.

 

Leeds are a big club, who sank too low given their history and Bielsa was a focal point in their resurrection. I want them in the league, but obviously not at our expense and hope to see Mad Marcelo back with another club in the future.

[HaydnNUFC]

It's a huge shame he's gone from the PL. I think Leeds fans should be very unhappy with their board tbh, they signed no one in January to bolster their squad in spite of the injuries that they've had this year. Bamford and especially Phillips have been enormous losses. No effort made to bring in back up to them.

 

Results and performances in isolation though probably meant he had to go. 20 goals conceded in a month, man. That's shocking.

 

Anyway, not arsed who goes down as long as its a team not called Newcastle United but I'd rather Leeds stayed up. As dislikable as they are or can be, the PL is better with a Leeds United in than a Watford, Brentford or Burnley. That's probably me just wanting to see most of the clubs from 1992-2004 back in the PL, but still.

[joeyt]

33 minutes ago, Dinho lad said:

 

He got them up eventually. His first season ended in a disappointment considering how well they started. I'm sure had this happened to Rafa, we would have been annoyed at him. What's the point in comparing him to previous Leeds managers anyway? It's about the players he has/had for selection and how he manages them. He achieved promotion at the second attempt, yes. 

 

Last season he also did well, but so what? Again, it wasn't necessarily unexpected. He had decent players. Also everyone knows promoted teams can overachieve until the second season syndrome comes about.  

 

If you look back on his managerial career, you will surely notice themes of huge promise but not many significant achievements - apart from great football and dissemination of great philosophy. But people talk about him almost like he's one of the elites. He's a good manager but is overrated and this largely down to the 'halo effect', frankly. 

 

BTW, Nigel Pearson knew and influenced Vardy towards England selection - so what?

 

 

 

 

What's the point in comparing him to previous Leeds managers?

 

He had decent players last season, does he not get credit for that? Where were Phillips and Bamford before Bielsa turned them into England internationals?

[The Bonk]

4 minutes ago, joeyt said:

 

What's the point in comparing him to previous Leeds managers?

 

He had decent players last season, does he not get credit for that? Where were Phillips and Bamford before Bielsa turned them into England internationals?

Yeah, I find comparing Bielsa to anyone is a stretch, he’s non conventional. Situationally, there might be a case there. 

[Froggy]

48 minutes ago, TRon said:

 

You loved Ole. Why would anyone take your opinion seriously?

 

Yes, I thought very highly of a club legend. Bizarre behaviour that. 

[Robster]

11 minutes ago, Froggy said:

 

Yes, I thought very highly of a club legend. Bizarre behaviour that. 

I'd like to see Steve Bruce put that thought process to the test.

[Dancing Brave]

He managed Leeds for the same number of games as sunland legend Simon Grayson. 

 

Simon Grayson 169 games  84 wins 45 losses.........49.7% win % 

Marcelo Bielsa 169 games  80 wins 56 losses......    47.3% win % 

 

 

 

[SUPERTOON]

4 minutes ago, Dancing Brave said:

He managed Leeds for the same number of games as sunland legend Simon Grayson. 

 

Simon Grayson 169 games  84 wins 45 losses.........49.7% win % 

Marcelo Bielsa 169 games  80 wins 56 losses......    47.3% win % 

 

 

 

But Grayson didn’t manage them in the premier league so it’s an irrelevant comparison.

[Dancing Brave]

Just now, SUPERTOON said:

But Grayson didn’t manage them in the premier league so it’s an irrelevant comparison.

I know, i wasn't being serious. Just a little mackem dig.  

[SUPERTOON]

2 minutes ago, Dancing Brave said:

I know, i wasn't being serious. Just a little mackem dig.  

My bad ?

[TRon]

29 minutes ago, Froggy said:

 

Yes, I thought very highly of a club legend. Bizarre behaviour that. 

 

I thought very highly of Ole as a club legend as well. As a player. We are talking about managers here. You thought highly of Ole as a manager yet are slating Bielsa as a manager. Again, why would anyone take your opinion seriously given your lack of reason when it came to judging Ole as a manager?

 

 

[Guest HTT II]

Bielsa is great coach. But he is just that, a coach. He has done a great job at Leeds and personally I love his character, his football and his philosophy, but would I want him at my club? No! Whoever comes in next at Leeds will struggle to turn things around because of the way Bielsa basically indoctrinated the players into his methods.

[The Bonk]

45 minutes ago, HTT II said:

Bielsa is great coach. But he is just that, a coach. He has done a great job at Leeds and personally I love his character, his football and his philosophy, but would I want him at my club? No! Whoever comes in next at Leeds will struggle to turn things around because of the way Bielsa basically indoctrinated the players into his methods.

 

Is that not what Howe has done? or are you saying his philosophies are too "Bielsa" for other managers to shift to their's? If Marsch can add some defensive prowess the last 12 games there's more than enough quality in their squad to stay up.

 

 

Edited February 27, 2022 by The Bonk

[rgk_lfc]

When you are evaluating Bielsa, you do need to look beyond the results. Yes, I wouldn't want him at LFC or would not recommend him to any top club, but that does not mean his contributions to football can be washed aside. 

 

Guardiola considers him to the most important manager in world football. "He is probably the person I admire the most in world football - as a manager and as a person," said Guardiola. "He is the most authentic manager in terms of how he conducts his teams. He is unique. 

 

Pochettino, Klopp - all rave about him. There is a big group of managers plying their trade in South, Central, and North America who considers him to be their most important person in terms of football development - Gallardo, Martino, Sampaoli. An entire generation of Argentinian footballers - Ayala, Simeone, Mascherano - all consider him to very influential in their football development. 

 

Yes, he has not been successful if you consider trophies and league positions in Europe. He does have some very serious flaws which come up again and again. But there definitely is something about his core philosophy, the way he encourages people to express themselves on the field which has inspired so many great and influential managers.  It feels like more than often he is able to create something brilliant but flawed which can be improved by adding some pragmatism to achieve great success. Like for example, Chile's Copa America triumph , a big part of the success was attributed to the foundations laid down by Bielsa. Sampaoli, another Bielsa disciple, continued along the same lines but mixed the high press with defensive resoluteness and they had great success. Not trying to downplay Sampaoli or overplay Bielsa, but he does always leave something positive behind.