The Managerial Merry Go Round™

[gjohnson]

They want a Ferguson MKII. Problem is that doesn't exist anymore as there is simply too much competition in the league now.

At Ferguson's peak there might have been only one or two teams to trouble them for a title, now there's at least 4 who are as good or better than them every year and not just on odd occasions.

 

It's no longer a case where first or second is guaranteed for them. In theory apart from Moyes their permanent appointments should on paper at least delivered a title. It hasn't worked and now its just panic as to get in the best they can to look good and keep the profits up. 

 

They are on a downward spiral at the minute, and it's like watching us since Souness took over in slow motion. Hopefully they go for Bruce or Hughes like has been championed just to accelerate it a bit.

[Guest HTT II]

The calibre of manager or coach is so high now across the division (now Bruce has gone), even a top-class manager isn’t guaranteed. We are the bottom side, but in Howe we arguably have a better coach than Man Utd had in Fergie, if not a better manager obviously.

[gjohnson]

8 minutes ago, HTT II said:

The calibre of manager or coach is so high now across the division (now Bruce has gone), even a top-class manager isn’t guaranteed. We are the bottom side, but in Howe we arguably have a better coach than Man Utd had in Fergie, if not a better manager obviously.

Agree, Ferguson had a knack of getting in the best coaches around at the time and made winning teams with them, and changed them the second they got stale.

 

Amusingly his most successful coaches went on to be absolutely dreadful managers...just shows that some have roles which are suited to them. What's that 'law' that says people are promoted to their level of incompetence? Seems to happen in football a hell of a lot

 

It's the 'Peter Principle'

 

 

Edited November 24, 2021 by gjohnson
accuracy

[HaydnNUFC]

13 hours ago, KaKa said:

I genuinely cannot believe people can still say this sort of thing in today's football. It just doesn't work like this anymore. There are too many decent managers with very well thought out philosophies and preparation in this league now. From Pep at Man City at the top to Thomas Frank at Brentford who have only just come up.

 

It's clear Ole was already a manager that thought little of tactics and coaching and it caught up with him, and you really think Bruce who is definitely more clueless and far lazier, would get results there? Against the likes of Klopp, Pep, Tuchel, Conte, Rodgers in the league without getting humiliated like they did by Liverpool last time out? Not to mention the cabbage then taking them into Champions League games with his 'lets play' philosophy? 

 

Spot on. There are individuals who 'don't need much coaching' for want of a better phrase in that side; Ronaldo, Varane, your experienced players if you like. But teams always need coaching, which is why the top coaches like the ones you mentioned are the top coaches. You can have brilliant 1 on 1 coaching and overall team coaching and some are better at one or the other but the two aren't always necessarily mutually exclusive, improving a player will improve the team and vice versa.

 

Brentford on Saturday were an example of a team that's brilliantly coached which Thomas Frank deserves full credit for, as those individuals aren't necessarily top PL level players but they're a good team. Cohesive, movement off the ball, anticipation, etc. 

 

This is more of a general topic as I'm unsure what Manchester United necessarily need. Mourinho failed despite a League Cup, Van Gaal failed despite a FA Cup, Solskjaer has failed despite building a brilliant squad of players. Pochettino would probably be the best choice for them, but how long before he comes under fire if he doesn't win a major trophy? Something he's still yet to achieve, as brilliant as he is.

[HWTL]

13 hours ago, KaKa said:

 

I genuinely cannot believe people can still say this sort of thing in today's football. It just doesn't work like this anymore. There are too many decent managers with very well thought out philosophies and preparation in this league now. From Pep at Man City at the top to Thomas Frank at Brentford who have only just come up.

 

It's clear Ole was already a manager that thought little of tactics and coaching and it caught up with him, and you really think Bruce who is definitely more clueless and far lazier, would get results there? Against the likes of Klopp, Pep, Tuchel, Conte, Rodgers in the league without getting humiliated like they did by Liverpool last time out? Not to mention the cabbage then taking them into Champions League games with his 'lets play' philosophy? 

 

The idea that he can just go in there and remind them what a privilege it is to play for Man Utd and that will suddenly get them playing at a high level is impossibly funny to me, and I pray they get suckered into it by all these ridiculously pompous ex-Man Utd players that they flood the studios with every time there's football on. This would be so incredibly satisfying if it transpires man. Fingers firmly crossed.

 

Look forward to Man Utd packing 10 men in their box and then lumping the ball up to Ronaldo on the half way line every time the ball comes near them, in order to stop them conceding so many goals.

 

 

 

Wasn't really meaning that top teams don't need a top class manager and a top class game plan, you can see that in Chelsea now that it makes a huge difference. All I meant was that at the toon most players are very average and alot not even Premier league quality so to get the best our of them they really need a manager to get them playing at a much higher level or a way that gets results as proven on Saturday with us. I could see anyone going in to man u and in short term getting better results just by laying down the law and a new face just because they have great player's. Long term it wouldn't work but I might long enough to say we were too hard on him.

[KaKa]

2 minutes ago, HWTL said:

Wasn't really meaning that top teams don't need a top class manager and a top class game plan, you can see that in Chelsea now that it makes a huge difference. All I meant was that at the toon most players are very average and alot not even Premier league quality so to get the best our of them they really need a manager to get them playing at a much higher level or a way that gets results as proven on Saturday with us. I could see anyone going in to man u and in short term getting better results just by laying down the law and a new face just because they have great player's. Long term it wouldn't work but I might long enough to say we were too hard on him.

 

Ah, okay. I see what you mean.

 

I'm not so sure though. I think the calibre of players they have, especially in Ronaldo and Varane would be so disgusted by his general cluelessness it would lead to a revolt. Think of the clubs, managers and the games those two have played in man. They would be absolutely floored by the incompetence of Bruce and the Steves.

[Dr Jinx]

Man Utd’s problems run way deeper than whoever their current manager of the club is.

 

As was mentioned before, Ferguson ran the place like a shop steward, total control from top to bottom. Since he’s left, all of that has disappeared and personalities have come to the fore,  whether it was Pogba was his mini battle of egos with Mourinho, or whatever. They’re in a cycle now if when it’s not working, they down tools. Putting everything on a manager and nothing on themselves.

 

They (the club) knew who they were and now they don’t. The people at boardroom leadership who have been there for years didn’t have to do all that much when Ferguson was there, they were successful and money rolled in. He requested a player and they got them. It ran itself essentially. Now they don’t know where to start.

 

Whoever manager they choose will not work out until they fix the structure going on at the club. So they may as well hire a pleb like Bruce. Makes no difference.

[Dokko]

Steve Bruce more likely to get the job than Zidane & Ten Hag according to the bookies 

 

Please happen. It's what all those manu scumbag pundits like Rio deserve. 

[rgk_lfc]

Man United's problem is that for the better part of three decades, the main reason for their success was the genius of Ferguson. That was their football strategy. People have come up with all sorts of ancillary reasons - Class of 92, youth team, Cantona, Kean, Ronaldo, best placed to exploit the growth of money in football, etc. Yes, those helped. But the main reason started and ended with Ferguson's brilliance. 

 

They are now figuring out how to win without their ace. They have too much money not to succeed. They will figure it out sooner or later.

[Gaztoon]

1 minute ago, rgk_lfc said:

Man United's problem is that for the better part of three decades, the main reason for their success was the genius of Ferguson. That was their football strategy. People have come up with all sorts of ancillary reasons - Class of 92, youth team, Cantona, Kean, Ronaldo, best placed to exploit the growth of money in football, etc. Yes, those helped. But the main reason started and ended with Ferguson's brilliance. 

 

They are now figuring out how to win without their ace. They have too much money not to succeed. They will figure it out sooner or later.

 

They need to move on from him though now..He still as to much influence and presence around the place..

 

You only need to watch a man utd match and see how many times the cam goes to him..he's like s big shadow over everyone that's had the job since.

 

[Whitley mag]

Never realised Ten Hag had been with Guardiola at Bayern. The Mancs should be all over this guy in the summer and give him all the time needed.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/av/football/59396438

[Dr Jinx]

1 hour ago, rgk_lfc said:

Man United's problem is that for the better part of three decades, the main reason for their success was the genius of Ferguson. That was their football strategy. People have come up with all sorts of ancillary reasons - Class of 92, youth team, Cantona, Kean, Ronaldo, best placed to exploit the growth of money in football, etc. Yes, those helped. But the main reason started and ended with Ferguson's brilliance. 

 

They are now figuring out how to win without their ace. They have too much money not to succeed. They will figure it out sooner or later.

And Nokia were the biggest phone manufacturer in the world. Poor management from the top will see even the biggest of organisations falter. For Man Utd, they’re revenue is still very good, but how much of that are their owners filtering out? There’s a parasite element similar to Mike Ashley with them.

[Chicane]

Fergie hanging around like a fucking spectre haunting the club can't possibly be helping them.

 

They still cling on to the idea of the "Man Utd way" - but as RGK says the Man Utd way was just SAF. They think it was some sort of style of play or player but it was just him and his influence. It was great for them for a long time but it's done now and until they entirely move forward and find a new identity I don't think they'll be successful.

[Fantail Breeze]

2 minutes ago, Chicane said:

Fergie hanging around like a fucking spectre haunting the club can't possibly be helping them.

 

They still cling on to the idea of the "Man Utd way" - but as RGK says the Man Utd way was just SAF. They think it was some sort of style of play or player but it was just him and his influence. It was great for them for a long time but it's done now and until they entirely move forward and find a new identity I don't think they'll be successful.

 

It’s no surprise both Man Utd and Arsenal have struggled post Wenger and SAF.

[Wolfcastle]

1 hour ago, Chicane said:

Fergie hanging around like a fucking spectre haunting the club can't possibly be helping them.

 

They still cling on to the idea of the "Man Utd way" - but as RGK says the Man Utd way was just SAF. They think it was some sort of style of play or player but it was just him and his influence. It was great for them for a long time but it's done now and until they entirely move forward and find a new identity I don't think they'll be successful.

 

That's right. Their way before Forguson was basically how they are now. Flatter to decieve despite spend in the league, not organised enough to challenge in the league, chance in the cups, managers coming and going.

[gazza ladra]

16 hours ago, Tomato Deuce said:

Bruce would be maddeningly fine there, Howe would fail to turn us into a juggernaut immediately, and we’d have to put up with all the gaslighting from the relentlessly thick dickheads who get paid to pontificate about this sport.

We've all come to expect the worse, but this is not happening.

 

Steve Bruce is incompetent.  The Man Utd squad won't bother to disguise their contempt for that clown the first time he has them playing 11 behind the ball. 

[Colos Short and Curlies]

Just imagine Ronaldinho rocking up to do some fitness training led by Bruce. It would be hilarious 

[thomas]

it would all go so wrong. it has to happen. That boiled ham in a wig would waste no time slotting Ronaldo in at left back.

[Guest]

Why is Valverde only being talked about as an Interim rather than Full-Time manager? His achievements the last few years outweighs Man Utd’s. 

[Mikky]

7 minutes ago, Optimistic Nut said:

Why is Valverde only being talked about as an Interim rather than Full-Time manager? His achievements the last few years outweighs Man Utd’s. 

 

Having watched his Barca teams he’s an average manager who basically relied on Messi to bail him out 

[jackyboy]

Bruce's agent has offered him to Man U

[buzza]

52 minutes ago, Mikky said:

 

Having watched his Barca teams he’s an average manager who basically relied on Messi to bail him out 

He was well spoken of during his time at Bilbao, he made a very average squad top half of the table european contenders and a few cup finals.

Barcelona he just couldn´t get them going and kind of forgave the low performances from their aeing players.

Would be a good fit for MAnu

[Mikky]

Pretty much this - doesn’t have the authority which you need to manage at the very top end 

[Dr Jinx]

27 minutes ago, jackyboy said:

Bruce's agent has offered him to Man U

Absolutely shameless.

[gbandit]

“I don’t want to put my family through that again” Bruce says as lashings of gravy and bacon fall from his leaking jowls. Bruce’s wife stares on disconsolately as he puts pen to paper on the interim caretaker role at Manchester United. “It just wouldn’t be fair on them if I didn’t take this opportunity” Bruce starts to choke as a streaky rasher of bacon catches

in his throat, his fingers tightening around the pen as his eyes fill with water. Breathless, his eyes grow wider as he stumbles to the floor, his wife motionless. Bruce writhes silently as the darkness seeps into the corners of his bloodshot eyes. His wife stands over him, staring down at the contract covered in sticky welts of bacon fat. “Alex, come clear your father up, he’s made a real mess of himself.”