Wullie Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 Ugh, not this shit again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leffe186 Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 Presumably the Premier League have seen the utter dominance of 2 clubs in Spain (this season aside) and thought they want some of that additional inequality. Owt to do with having B teams in the regular football pyramid though. B teams are really a great platform to give young players experience at a professional level, and big and small teams have benefited from them alike. In Spain it sorta works (I would bar them from playing in our Second Division though), because of our football pyramid being an actual pyramid, so Segunda B is made up of 80 teams and B teams end up being a small % of the division. I believe it would be a terrible idea in England as eventually a bunch of B teams would take spots at the top of the Football League. In Spain, B teams emerged naturally as initially they were just regular teams with whom the "A" teams entered loaning agreements with. It's at least in part to do with having B teams in the regular football pyramid (although individual TV contracts are a more obvious factor). B teams are a good platform to give young players professional football...of course they are, but the teams that benefit are the ones they play for. The bigger sides. If a big team can keep all those players and give them regular football then that gives them an advantage - an inequality - over a team that does not have that opportunity. You can't pretend otherwise. With no B teams many of those players would be getting games for other teams. It might well result in better training for more youngsters and a better national team - that's what you'd expect at least. We just have to decide whether it's a price worth paying. I don't think it is. All sides have B teams. You make it look like only Barça and Real Madrid do. And despite them being currently in the Second Division, they have spent the most of their existence in Segunda B or lower (Barça B was in the 4th tier of Spanish football when Guardiola took over), alongside most of the other B teams. It's a good tool for smaller teams because they can offer pro football to youngsters that could otherwise go to Barça/Madrid academies. No - I'm fully aware that many Spanish clubs have B teams. When I talk about smaller teams I mean teams like Leyton Orient (my personal 'B' team), Oxford, Torquay etc etc, not Crystal Palace or West Brom. It's the teams in the lower divisions in England that I am inordinately proud of, and that would suffer most if we went down this road. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest chopey Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 Will somebody please think of the children Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucaAltieri Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 Obviously there are flaws but there are most definitely positives too. How many players currently get loaned out from top sides to lower league clubs on average? Maybe a dozen? Having a competitive B team would get more kids more playing time against professionals. Having a B team means you control the coaching methods and staff. This means better coaches for the kids playing at that level than if they'd been sent on loan to Rotherham or where ever. And it means they can be coached using the same tactics as the first team, actually preparing them for a career in the first team, so there's a better chance they'll actually get called up and used in the Premier League. The report also talks about grass roots coaches and all weather pitches, both of which are issues that need addressing. The report doesn't go far enough. Even the standard of coaching at elite academies isn't up to scratch. It's understandable why these English pros wouldn't criticise the system that produced them, but half the problem with kids getting first team football is that they're simply not as good as the 18 and 19 year olds getting produced elsewhere in Europe. Coaching in England needs improving across the board, not just at grass roots, but at every level of the youth game. Way too much cronyism and jobs for the boys, at the moment. After moving to the US I'm a total convert on turf. It's great to play on even in shitty weather. I'm glad to see they're looking at ending some of that natural grass snobbery. In the US they are very keen to focus on homegrown talent and they're taking these exact same steps and then some. Not only do we have a dedicated league for under 23s (the PDL) but the third tier of American soccer (USL Pro) is rapidly expanding with MLS B teams and/or affiliate clubs. The situation is slightly different due to the fact that soccer over here doesn't have the same level of history, long standing lower league clubs, etc. A lot of the clubs that pop up are pretty new and the whole league system is viewed as a work in progress. But there's no doubt that they view this method of developing youth as the way to go. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stifler Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 Worst idea ever. If they want an extra league then just promote all the conference teams and then everyone below them. There is no way I would take an interest in NUFC B. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leffe186 Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 Worst idea ever. If they want an extra league then just promote all the conference teams and then everyone below them. There is no way I would take an interest in NUFC B. They don't want an extra league, they want (a) young English players to get a better grounding and/or (b) bigger clubs to get another advantage - depending upon your perspective/level of cynicism. I also don't believe that you wouldn't take an interest in NUFC B. I'd have thought you'd watch them more than NUFC A at the moment, tbh. From a purely selfish standpoint I'd love to see Spurs B, but it would destroy something more important. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stifler Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 Worst idea ever. If they want an extra league then just promote all the conference teams and then everyone below them. There is no way I would take an interest in NUFC B. They don't want an extra league, they want (a) young English players to get a better grounding and/or (b) bigger clubs to get another advantage - depending upon your perspective/level of cynicism. I also don't believe that you wouldn't take an interest in NUFC B. I'd have thought you'd watch them more than NUFC A at the moment, tbh. From a purely selfish standpoint I'd love to see Spurs B, but it would destroy something more important. They just need to get tough on clubs. Have a 25 man squad for all competitions, 5 of those must be between 16-21. No more players allowed at the club over the ages of 16 other than those in the squad. Teams in Europe are allowed say an extra 5 players, 3 of which have to be 16-21. Do so teams don't hoard players and have to give them an opportunity or release them to someone who will. Getting tough on clubs is what we should be doing, not bending over backward for them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucaAltieri Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 Worst idea ever. If they want an extra league then just promote all the conference teams and then everyone below them. There is no way I would take an interest in NUFC B. They don't want an extra league, they want (a) young English players to get a better grounding and/or (b) bigger clubs to get another advantage - depending upon your perspective/level of cynicism. I also don't believe that you wouldn't take an interest in NUFC B. I'd have thought you'd watch them more than NUFC A at the moment, tbh. From a purely selfish standpoint I'd love to see Spurs B, but it would destroy something more important. They just need to get tough on clubs. Have a 25 man squad for all competitions, 5 of those must be between 16-21. No more players allowed at the club over the ages of 16 other than those in the squad. Team in Europe are allowed say an extra 5 players, 3 of which have to be 16-21. Do so teams don't hoard players and have to give them an opportunity or release them to someone who will. Getting tough on clubs is what we should be doing, not bending over backward for them. Squad registration is done on a competition by competition basis. UEFA have their requirements, I'm sure the football league have theirs. I'm not sure who would have the right to dictate to clubs how many players they can have on staff available for ALL competitions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Village Idiot Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 Presumably the Premier League have seen the utter dominance of 2 clubs in Spain (this season aside) and thought they want some of that additional inequality. Owt to do with having B teams in the regular football pyramid though. B teams are really a great platform to give young players experience at a professional level, and big and small teams have benefited from them alike. In Spain it sorta works (I would bar them from playing in our Second Division though), because of our football pyramid being an actual pyramid, so Segunda B is made up of 80 teams and B teams end up being a small % of the division. I believe it would be a terrible idea in England as eventually a bunch of B teams would take spots at the top of the Football League. In Spain, B teams emerged naturally as initially they were just regular teams with whom the "A" teams entered loaning agreements with. It's at least in part to do with having B teams in the regular football pyramid (although individual TV contracts are a more obvious factor). B teams are a good platform to give young players professional football...of course they are, but the teams that benefit are the ones they play for. The bigger sides. If a big team can keep all those players and give them regular football then that gives them an advantage - an inequality - over a team that does not have that opportunity. You can't pretend otherwise. With no B teams many of those players would be getting games for other teams. It might well result in better training for more youngsters and a better national team - that's what you'd expect at least. We just have to decide whether it's a price worth paying. I don't think it is. All sides have B teams. You make it look like only Barça and Real Madrid do. And despite them being currently in the Second Division, they have spent the most of their existence in Segunda B or lower (Barça B was in the 4th tier of Spanish football when Guardiola took over), alongside most of the other B teams. It's a good tool for smaller teams because they can offer pro football to youngsters that could otherwise go to Barça/Madrid academies. No - I'm fully aware that many Spanish clubs have B teams. When I talk about smaller teams I mean teams like Leyton Orient (my personal 'B' team), Oxford, Torquay etc etc, not Crystal Palace or West Brom. It's the teams in the lower divisions in England that I am inordinately proud of, and that would suffer most if we went down this road. As I said, the size of Spanish lower divisions reduces the impact B teams have in preventing the progress of proper teams. Actually, given the current state of our lower leagues, they are probably needed to fill them out... And yes, we have our own small historic teams but in Spain the following of clubs not at the top level is pretty terrible (which brings me to what I said in the first paragraph). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdckelly Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 what an absolutely horrific idea Accrington Stanley @ASFCofficial 2h In 2016/17 we can achieve our dream... We'll finally be able to play Stoke City Reserves in the Football League... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 How is anyone anywhere near good enough for a PL squad going to benefit at all from playing conference or league two football. Besides the fact of ruining the integrity of the league structure. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Village Idiot Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 How is anyone anywhere near good enough for a PL squad going to benefit at all from playing conference or league two football. Besides the fact of ruining the integrity of the league structure. It worked for Lionel. The problem of youth football is that you're playing against people of similar age to you, it helps immensely to test yourself against veteran, competitive players, even in a poor league. But yeah, I'd never do it in England. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ_NUFC Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 Finally Hatem will get some match practice. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DebuchyAndTheBeast Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 The main problem will be the number of B teams. The FA could place a limit on the number of B teams involved in each division (say 1 or 2)as a reassurance to the lower league teams. I don't think it will be necessary because the loan system will reabsorb some of the better young players. However they'll have to find a solution for the number of B teams that will be created. Maybe 2 or 3 teams can merge their B teams? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
huss9 Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 they need to stop the bigger clubs stockpiling players and abusing the loan system. would probably bring down transfer fees also as a result. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 Let's not forget, this was meant to be a way to help the England team, not help the PL clubs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foluwashola Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 One of the few remaining beautiful aspects of the English game is its lower division supporters. Down with this sort of thing. Slowly trying to erode all that is good and holy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucaAltieri Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 One of the few remaining beautiful aspects of the English game is its lower division supporters. Down with this sort of thing. Slowly trying to erode all that is good and holy. I don't know why there's an assumption that introducing B teams will kill off the loyal support of lower league teams. "Oh, we're playing NUFC B this week, not Luton, I won't bother then." I don't see it, myself. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hakka Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 Awful idea, devaluing the rest of the "league" Fifa and UEFA should stop these rich teams buying more players than they need. Yes this. The only people who benefit is big rich clubs who want to be able to keep and develop more players. How many desperate League 2 clubs will get condemned to the conference just to make way for the 'B' side of the rich and successful clubs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.S.R. Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 The commission - made up of Danny Mills, Glenn Hoddle, Howard Wilkinson, Rio Ferdinand... A Confederacy of Dunces. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 Totally wank idea. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
morpeth mag Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 We have a B team already and the promise of an A team next season so that's NUFC sorted. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest H09 Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 Don't know what people are complaining about, it will be great for our s**** academy because the young lads will try a lot harder in the knowledge they will win bonuses for a top 12 finish in the Prit Stick League Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jill Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 Horrendously bad idea. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 Fuck no, stupid idea. That is all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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