England

[Parky]

Eng 68% foreign players.

Spain 37%

Germany 22%

 

We'll never again have a large enough pool to pick from and not enough Eng players will develop at top clubs in key roles to actually challenge in tournaments. There are loads of other factors but IMO this is the core issue.

[Guest palnese]

Eng 68% foreign players.

Spain 37%

Germany 22%

 

We'll never again have a large enough pool to pick from and not enough Eng players will develop at top clubs in key roles to actually challenge in tournaments. There are loads of other factors but IMO this is the core issue.

 

It really is that simple. Too many forrins in the PL. If you want a better national team there's got to be more English players actually playing at the highest level.

[Tubestationatmidnight]

England are the international version of NUFC

[Cronky]

Eng 68% foreign players.

Spain 37%

Germany 22%

 

We'll never again have a large enough pool to pick from and not enough Eng players will develop at top clubs in key roles to actually challenge in tournaments. There are loads of other factors but IMO this is the core issue.

 

It really is that simple. Too many forrins in the PL. If you want a better national team there's got to be more English players actually playing at the highest level.

 

I can't see that at all. The individual quality of English players has improved because the competition for places at clubs is greater, with the number of good foreign players coming in.

 

Whether it's improved enough, I suppose, is another matter. All round, we're still not technically as sound as other countries. A particular difference is their defenders have more confidence on the ball, and can contribute more in possession. It allows them to function better and more flexibly as teams.

 

[Tubestationatmidnight]

Can someone explain how I keep hearing Wilshere is nowhere near fit enough to be at the tournament? He's had ages to get fit. Even in the time from when the tournament started to last night I could get fit to play an hour of football.

[Optimistic Nut]

I don't think Shearer would be a bad appointment. Some people just seem more suited to international football, I think he'd 'get' it and command the respect an England manager should have.

[hakka]

I don't think Shearer would be a bad appointment. Some people just seem more suited to international football, I think he'd 'get' it and command the respect an England manager should have.

 

I'd like to think this was right. Not much evidence to go on he would tactically be smart enough, but he's said all the right things about England throughout this tournament.

[HawK]

England are the international version of NUFC

 

Pretty much, curiously the form and prominence of both teams year by year is fairly accurate, 1996 - England Euros, Keegan NUFC 2nd. Under Bobby we were doing better than England were comparatively, but then we've been relegated twice as well so it evens out.

[HawK]

I don't think Shearer would be a bad appointment. Some people just seem more suited to international football, I think he'd 'get' it and command the respect an England manager should have.

 

All our kids need a serious kick up the arse and Shearer has that ability in spades. Passion, instant respect - he's legendary amongst English footballers. The Klinsmann effect in Germany for example.

[Cronky]

Can someone explain how I keep hearing Wilshere is nowhere near fit enough to be at the tournament? He's had ages to get fit. Even in the time from when the tournament started to last night I could get fit to play an hour of football.

 

I'm going by the evidence of my own eyes. He looked slow, and as a player who isn't the quickest anyway, he can't afford to lose what pace he has.

 

But you do have a point. He's suffered some significant injuries in his short career and maybe that's taken its toll. I hope not, because he's a major talent.

[Parky]

Eng 68% foreign players.

Spain 37%

Germany 22%

 

We'll never again have a large enough pool to pick from and not enough Eng players will develop at top clubs in key roles to actually challenge in tournaments. There are loads of other factors but IMO this is the core issue.

 

It really is that simple. Too many forrins in the PL. If you want a better national team there's got to be more English players actually playing at the highest level.

 

I can't see that at all. The individual quality of English players has improved because the competition for places at clubs is greater, with the number of good foreign players coming in.

 

Whether it's improved enough, I suppose, is another matter. All round, we're still not technically as sound as other countries. A particular difference is their defenders have more confidence on the ball, and can contribute more in possession. It allows them to function better and more flexibly as teams.

 

 

10/15 years ago Germany had the same issue then why did they bother to put so much effort in tackling it?

 

Eng isn't just attracting good players a lot of squads are filled out with average non Eng players which is limiting the chance of youth players coming through. We aren't even discussing key roles in a side. The creative fulcrum of most top PL teams are foreign players. Eng can develop as many pacy wingers as they like but untill they develop midfielders who can come through and play regularly in the PL they haven't a chance on the international stage.

 

 

"But the Germans don't need so many foreign players. Over the last decade they have invested more than £570m in youth academies, a move that has seen the average age of Bundesliga players in that period fall from 27.1 years to just 25.2 years and given birth to a generation of players that, as the World Cup showed all too clearly, know each other's games inside out.

 

"It's our youth academies that continuously provide the talents that make the Bundesliga and the national team so exciting and attractive," adds the DFL's Christian Seifert. "Our clubs invest €100m (£80m) in these academies and are rewarded with a sustainable basis of excellent homegrown players."

 

Crucially, these homegrown players have far more opportunity of playing in their national league than their counterparts in England, where just 37 per cent of players in the Premier League are eligible to play for the national side. In the top tier of the Bundesliga it's 57 per cent. It's another reason that Germany performs so consistently at international level, as Christian Seifert explains. "

 

Even the 37% is misleading because although they may be eligible how many of them are playing regularly? The more you look into it the worse it gets sadly.

[Nobody]

Another big problem for me is that there aren't any English players playing abroad. Every single one of them play in the PL and hence are only used to that type of football.

Not that it's an excuse for Roy, but yet another thing that made his job tougher this tournament is the likes of Leicester and Tottenham this season. No one would have expected so many new players to start performing  which made him not know what his best team is. All of the sudden there were loads of players that had barely played in the qualifiers that should be starting, as well as Rooney finding a new position at Man U. Then of course he is weak as hell in only picking these players and leaving out the likes of Carroll and Townsend who might not be as good as the ones chosen, but would offer a genuine plan B. Bringing Barkley who was never going to get any game time with Alli and Rooney ahead of him for his position for example is just lunacy.

[Tsunami]

So annoyed that I put this in the wrong thread....

 

I'm still fuming over that performance, I can accept losing to the better team as long as we have given our best. I'd love to know how many misplaced passes and overhit set pieces we hit last night. I can't remember ever seeing so many simple things done so badly.

 

Good luck to Iceland but that result was completely down to our ineptitude, on and off the pitch. It's also getting to something where Pards is second favourite to Southgate to take over. Take a chance on Eddie Howe.

[Lush Vlad]

Another big problem for me is that there aren't any English players playing abroad. Every single one of them play in the PL and hence are only used to that type of football.

Not that it's an excuse for Roy, but yet another thing that made his job tougher this tournament is the likes of Leicester and Tottenham this season. No one would have expected so many new players to start performing  which made him not know what his best team is. All of the sudden there were loads of players that had barely played in the qualifiers that should be starting, as well as Rooney finding a new position at Man U. Then of course he is weak as hell in only picking these players and leaving out the likes of Carroll and Townsend who might not be as good as the ones chosen, but would offer a genuine plan B. Bringing Barkley who was never going to get any game time with Alli and Rooney ahead of him for his position for example is just lunacy.

 

Eng 68% foreign players.

Spain 37%

Germany 22%

 

We'll never again have a large enough pool to pick from and not enough Eng players will develop at top clubs in key roles to actually challenge in tournaments. There are loads of other factors but IMO this is the core issue.

 

It really is that simple. Too many forrins in the PL. If you want a better national team there's got to be more English players actually playing at the highest level.

 

I can't see that at all. The individual quality of English players has improved because the competition for places at clubs is greater, with the number of good foreign players coming in.

 

Whether it's improved enough, I suppose, is another matter. All round, we're still not technically as sound as other countries. A particular difference is their defenders have more confidence on the ball, and can contribute more in possession. It allows them to function better and more flexibly as teams.

 

 

Agree with both of these posts.  We're going on like we don't have many players to choose from?  There were players that performed very well in the league, scored a lot of goals, got a lot of assists.  That didn't even get a look in.  We can't get a competitive 23 together, because of all the forrins?  Absolute rubbish.

 

I think the point about all of our players, playing in the prem, is spot on.  We have a lot of players suited to the cut and thrust nature of our league.  When it's all intricate and tactical, most of them look clueless.  As we have done all tournament.  We have lacked craft and guile and have no clue how to break teams down and work proper openings.  How many decent chances did we have last night? 

 

I think to add further to the quoted posts.  I would say it's the FA from top to bottom.  We don't have the right coaching set up and we appoint dinosaur yes man.  Apart from Eddie Howe, I'm struggling to think of one decent English manager?  Who coaches our youth teams?  Does long ball advocate Aidy Bothroyd still manage the U19's?  Gareth Southgate.... 

[Parky]

Performed well in the league BECAUSE they are in teams with who's key creative players are foreign. Germany came to the same conclusion and changed their football from youth up. There is literally reams of data on the internet on how Germany changed their youth system and coaching to encourage German players.

 

Nearly the whole German team now plays abroad which is actually bothering the Germans.

[Lush Vlad]

Performed well in the league BECAUSE they are in teams with who's key creative players are foreign. Germany came to the same conclusion and changed their football from youth up. There is literally reams of data on the internet on how Germany changed their youth system and coaching to encourage German players.

 

We agree on something, then.

[Parky]

It has literally been madness in Eng as until last years rule change people like Fabregas and half of the Chelsea youth system were considered 'home grown'. In Eng home grown didn't even mean qualify to play for Eng.

[sbnufc]

Kaveh Solhekol ‏@SkyKaveh

Entire 23-man Iceland squad cost less than Raheem Sterling

[Hughesy]

Obviously there are many many problems with the England team, but I just think the continued shoe horning of Rooney into that team in a position that he hasn't ever played just epitomises everything wrong with the set up.  We obviously have a long and glorious history of trying to fit players into a team even if it is totally inappropriate, but the Rooney decision even surpasses the Scholes on the wing and Lampard/Gerrard crap.

 

Seeing Rooney in midfield was like watching us with Shelvey - everything has to go through him, no matter how much it slows our game down.  Was analysing some of his passes last night and he seemed intent on playing those kind of slow sweeping passes (not even Gerrard Hollywood balls) that might get a ripple of applause for 'spreading the play' but in reality reach their target so slowly all options close off and/or are usually hit so poorly that the recipient of the pass has to stop to get the ball.  He is not a fucking midfielder and never will be.

[Bizza]

Kaveh Solhekol ‏@SkyKaveh

Entire 23-man Iceland squad cost less than Raheem Sterling

 

Seriously? fucking hell

[Lush Vlad]

The last bit is how I saw it.  I was just speaking to someone in the office about Rooney and said similar.  He was often in our own half, playing a 20-30 yard curling pass, to a centre back on the other side of the pitch.  All whilst Iceland had all of their players in their own half. 

 

I'd much rather see Rooney trying to play between the lines, try and work an opening closer to the goal and drift in and out of play at that end of the pitch.  Not see him trying to take on the Xabi Alonso role and failing miserably. 

[mozy]

I'd rather not see Rooney at all, time to fuck off and retire. For 10 years the national team has been built around 'how to get the best out of Wayne Rooney', look where that's got us. Pick players in their actual positions.

[Lush Vlad]

I'd rather not see Rooney at all, time to f*** off and retire. For 10 years the national team has been built around 'how to get the best out of Wayne Rooney', look where that's got us. Pick players in their actual positions.

 

Yeah, I meant during this tournament and specifically, last night.  Moving forward, I would much rather he calls it a day.  Especially if we insist on playing him in centre mid. 

[mighty__mag]

I'm so glad it happened, because of pricks that say you can't play a 442 anymore.

It's a stone age tactic etc etc.

 

442 if you have the right players can be great.

The biggest issue about using wide players today is they simply are not wide players, they are just quick lads with a bit of technical abilities that like to cut in. Nobody crosses balls like Stuart Ripley repeatedly did for Shearer, Beckham did for Utd, even Keith Gillespie had a nice cross. This is why today you see so many isolated strikers.

And most teams in this tournament have opted for using these converted winger types as strikers which has shown us the lack of goals in games.

 

 

[Jayson]

Shearers got it pretty spot on throughout the tournament for me.