England

[Yorkie]

2 hours ago, Beren said:

If Müller's big chance happens a few minutes before Sterling's opener and he takes it, people would have an entirely different thesaurus of expletives for the identical performance people are now praising.

 

I always find that a really strange way to be critical. The fact is, it didn't. And it only came about because of an uncharacteristic mistake from one of our attackers. 

[McCormick]

 It was a fairly assured tactical performance and a good win.

 

I’ve been very critical of Southgate’s team selections and play style thus far and, even if I honestly think we have more talent than what we’re currently showing, it’s bonkers to argue with looking very compact and conceding 0 goals so long as we’re winning games.

[Beren]

12 minutes ago, Yorkie said:

 

I always find that a really strange way to be critical. The fact is, it didn't. And it only came about because of an uncharacteristic mistake from one of our attackers. 

 

My point is that the preceding 74 minutes and their characterisation should be no different, irrespective of who scored first. And I don't think my earlier descriptions of the performance would be grossly unfair from an objective point of view. Just IMO.

[Interpolic]

I'm totally with Beren here in that the performances have been really unconvincing (that's a great post btw), however there is something somewhat intangible under the surface here that is getting us results not seen for many years. There is a togetherness, we're more organised and can execute a plan, we're more composed in defence. 

 

I didn't rate Southgate before England and I still have my grumbles re the attacking talent we're not utilising. But you can't argue with the results we've seen recently. A semi final run followed by quarters or better in this tournament is absolutely fantastic by recent England standards. 

 

And people can say what they like about us not beating anyone big Germany-aside, but we did get knocked out by Iceland under Hodgson recently and we've seen big teams knocked out by lesser sides during these Euros. I want us playing more attractive football and we really should do so against Ukraine but my mentality has switched a bit now we're in the knockouts, in that the main priority now is to win. 

[Yorkie]

15 minutes ago, Beren said:

 

My point is that the preceding 74 minutes and their characterisation should be no different, irrespective of who scored first. And I don't think my earlier descriptions of the performance would be grossly unfair from an objective point of view. Just IMO.

 

Well I disagree with the suggestion that we didn't control the game. This team absolutely spanked Portugal after getting in-behind on numerous occasions, but we limited them to half-chances all the way through that 74 minutes. Then we opened the game up with the subs to try and win it, and duly did so. I think we've managed every game extremely well aside from the Scotland one, where we got rattled early on and never fully recovered. 

 

We're nowhere near as attractive but I think we've looked every bit like we could go toe-to-toe with Belgium, Italy and Spain. We've got loads of attacking options but we're blessed with defensive players as well. Southgate has chosen to put the onus on the latter to create a context where he's choosing his match-winners/bringing them into the game from a position of solidity. You could say there's enough talent in the squad to do it the other way round - and base our gameplans on our attackers - but we've done that in the past and failed. The results speak for themselves so far. 

[Smal]

I know it never feels that way watching as a fan because you’re nervous af for 90 minutes, but that was as controlled as England are ever going to get against a side like Germany.

 

Our tactics/formation/whatever nullified them, their wing backs were barely in the game, and their main chance to score was as a result of an individual error in an attacking scenario. We dictated that. If you were watching that as a neutral you’d be saying England are genuine contenders on that performance.

[Guest neesy111]

It was very 50/50 until we scored and then we did take control.  Some people are forgetting some of the chances the Germans had 1st half, they should've scored with Werner.

[Yorkie]

5 minutes ago, Interpolic said:

there is something somewhat intangible under the surface here that is getting us results not seen for many years. There is a togetherness, we're more organised and can execute a plan, we're more composed in defence. 

 

Absolutely. I think a lot of Southgate's best decisions have been away from the pitch/matchday. Everything you hear about squads in the past were that they were fractious, but he's deliberately made it more of a 'club' atmosphere. Then you've got the media, which can be so troublesome when it comes to England, but he's note-perfect whenever he speaks and clearly has a wider strategy when it comes to managing it. 

 

I've been watching loads of the England YouTube channel and the lads all clearly love each other, which is reflected whenever you hear them speak about the camp. They move around the place with such swagger and confidence and joking away wuth themselves and - again, Scotland aside - you see that on the pitch. The stakes were absolutely colossal yesterday (I can't believe Rice, and presumably the others, watched Gary Neville's "pressure's on, lads" tirade on ITV the night before ) - yet they never looked remotely nervous at any point in the match.

 

This is in comparison to players in silos and no Ketchup, like the Capello years. Players clearly on edge and lacking composure in the games, getting themselves sent off etc. 

 

We look so much more complete now. 

[Guest neesy111]

I completely trust Southgate in the respect of getting team focused instantly on the next game.  Imagine if we had cunts like Big Sam in charge after such a win, ego would be going through the roof,

[Guest neesy111]

Going to be very very few English fans in Rome btw.  Going to have neutral feel to the game.

[NEEJ]

Loved how awestruck Sterling was last night during his interview. "Declan and errrr... Rice. I mean Declan Rice!"

[James]

I’m not too hung up on how we did in the group stages. Czechs are also in the QF and Croatia gave Spain a real run. Add Scotland as our all time rivals and then consider that all of Group F are out and we can say that we were in the real Group of Death

[BlueStar]

 

[Klaus]

England have had some lifting cunts play for them in recent years, but Sterling is certainly not one of them. 

[astraguy]

Although I think England have been tosh all tournament this does feel like our best chance since 66 bar Italy,we will make the final

 

 

Edited June 30, 2021 by astraguy

[The Prophet]

Let's be honest, as a Newcastle United and an England fan, we'll make a hard work of it before the final. 

[WarrenBartonCentrePartin]

1 hour ago, Yorkie said:

 

Absolutely. I think a lot of Southgate's best decisions have been away from the pitch/matchday. Everything you hear about squads in the past were that they were fractious, but he's deliberately made it more of a 'club' atmosphere. Then you've got the media, which can be so troublesome when it comes to England, but he's note-perfect whenever he speaks and clearly has a wider strategy when it comes to managing it. 

 

I've been watching loads of the England YouTube channel and the lads all clearly love each other, which is reflected whenever you hear them speak about the camp. They move around the place with such swagger and confidence and joking away wuth themselves and - again, Scotland aside - you see that on the pitch. The stakes were absolutely colossal yesterday (I can't believe Rice, and presumably the others, watched Gary Neville's "pressure's on, lads" tirade on ITV the night before ) - yet they never looked remotely nervous at any point in the match.

 

This is in comparison to players in silos and no Ketchup, like the Capello years. Players clearly on edge and lacking composure in the games, getting themselves sent off etc. 

 

We look so much more complete now. 

 

When Southgate took over - and during the 2018 World Cup - the media were loving how open and accessible things were. I think before they went to Russia they sat each member of the squad down on a table and the press could go and speak to whoever they liked.

 

That attitude, along with the attitude of the players themselves (not towing the Italia 90/Euro 96 narrative) has definitely helped compared to the siege mentality seen between the Eriksson and Capello eras (particularly the latter).

[relámpago blanco]

We need to play more offensively against the Ukraine.  

[Beren]

2 hours ago, Yorkie said:

 

Well I disagree with the suggestion that we didn't control the game. This team absolutely spanked Portugal after getting in-behind on numerous occasions, but we limited them to half-chances all the way through that 74 minutes. Then we opened the game up with the subs to try and win it, and duly did so. I think we've managed every game extremely well aside from the Scotland one, where we got rattled early on and never fully recovered. 

 

We're nowhere near as attractive but I think we've looked every bit like we could go toe-to-toe with Belgium, Italy and Spain. We've got loads of attacking options but we're blessed with defensive players as well. Southgate has chosen to put the onus on the latter to create a context where he's choosing his match-winners/bringing them into the game from a position of solidity. You could say there's enough talent in the squad to do it the other way round - and base our gameplans on our attackers - but we've done that in the past and failed. The results speak for themselves so far. 

 

I (very respectfully! ) disagree because they could say the same.

 

Re: the bit in bold, Havertz and Werner (I think?) had chances. Pickford tipped one from distance over and avoided getting 'megged on the other at close range. Sterling had one curling effort saved from distance, and Kane took a heavy touch on another good chance. That's about it from memory in terms of chances from either side before 1-0? Two apiece, pretty similar. Maybe I'm forgetting something - I did doze off for a bit in the second half  

 

Anyway, hopefully England kick on against Ukraine.

 

 

[Yorkie]

Don't think you're forgetting anything, but I'd call them half-chances, which is always likely to happen when you're facing an opponent with so much quality. My view is that we limited them and that speaks to us having controlled the game. 

[St. Maximin]

13 hours ago, Ketsbaia said:

I just think it's too much. Chanting his name, an ovation when he comes on, the discussion of every fan/pundit. Even on that Peter Crouch show they were saying how he has to start because he apparently changed the match today. Grealishmania is a real thing and I'm not sure why, although he is pretty good.

 

Where's Sanchomania or Fodenmania?

He adds something different and I think what they said on the Peter Crouch show is pretty justified. You could say Southgate got it right but on the flip side if you play him from the start maybe we'd have threatened earlier. I think it's similar with Willock at Newcastle - he kept coming on and scoring so maybe he should have just played from the start.

 

Foden and Sancho are great also but not sure they have shown for England they would have the same impact. Grealish constantly seems to make things happen, regardless of whether Southgate persists with him.

[LionOfGosforth]

Some good debate in here, find myself agreeing with most of what is being said on both "sides". I feel like, yes, we could play objectively better stuff, but it actually really no longer matters, the stakes are too high for me to care about that anymore. Watched it last night, with no prior knowledge of anything. Felt like there were Flints (Likely Lads reference for the old timers in here) everywhere, trying to tell me the score

 

I thought Germany absolutely bossed the first 15-20 then something changed and it became a much more even game with ebb and flow like a PL game in some ways. Couple of good chances each, great save by Pickford from Werner. Fascinating to watch at times, utterly tense throughout. About as even as i've ever seen an England/Germany game.

 

I think we've obviously reached a stage now where this is how we're going to play and it's not going to change and that's fine with me. Many think we should be playing more "attractive" football and be playing Grealish and/or Sancho (personally would have liked to see more of Foden) but within this tactical framework that Southgate has constructed, I don't think the personnel changes will happen unless we're forced into it (losing in a game) and I think the change in perception of how we're playing would be minimal anyway. As much as the football is functional, rather than artistic, I think it's laudable we've only allowed Germany (even if they're in a bit of transition) one clear chance that they created (Werner), one long ranger (Havertz) and the Muller chance that came from a mistake. How a player of that quality and experience has missed that, I doubt even he knows.

 

For England, there's a mental strength and togetherness wrapped tightly around a well thought out tactical plan that's yielding results in a highly competitive and exciting tournament. Despite the general misgivings about style and few chances created, I'd have settled for that 2 weeks ago.

[triggs]

1 hour ago, Yorkie said:

Don't think you're forgetting anything, but I'd call them half-chances, which is always likely to happen when you're facing an opponent with so much quality. My view is that we limited them and that speaks to us having controlled the game. 

Didn't see the second half but the Werner one in the first half was definitely more than a half chance 

[Pilko]

I can't remember an England team ever restricting one of the "big teams" to so few clear-cut chances in a knockout game. To think that Germany would have 0 chances at all is crazy. The Muller one was a let off, Pickford made two saves; I'm of the opinion that no matter whether you're playing Germany or Raggy Arse Rovers you're entitled to one or maybe two good saves from your keeper for your money. 

 

I felt like we were in control throughout and whilst it wasn't flashy or silky to watch, it was every single fucking thing that's been missing from an England big game tournament performance pre-Southgate - organised, well thought-out, disciplined, intelligent and measured. Our quality shone through late on.

 

We 100% need to be more expansive against Sheva's lot though and it'll be interesting to see what Gareth does. Whatever he does I've faith that there'll be rhyme and reason to it and we have a huge chance to make this a year to remember.

 

 

Edited June 30, 2021 by Pilko

[AyeDubbleYoo]

I don't think we really need to be more expansive against Ukraine. I'd expect the approach to be broadly similar, but with more possession and more chances because Ukraine aren't as good.  

 

Guess he might go back to the back 4, not sure.

 

 

Edited June 30, 2021 by AyeDubbleYoo