Matt Posted May 18, 2018 Share Posted May 18, 2018 No, Ashley the man and his companies are all separate entities. He’d only pay tax on income (interest or dividends) received from those companies- which he hasn't taken from NUFC (ever, I think). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_R Posted May 19, 2018 Share Posted May 19, 2018 No, Ashley the man and his companies are all separate entities. He’d only pay tax on income (interest or dividends) received from those companies- which he hasn't taken from NUFC (ever, I think). No, he's taken no money directly from NUFC. But he does get free advertising for his tatty chav clothes shops from us via the entirely unpaid advertising around the ground, worth millions in lost revenue annually, and IIRC (please correct me if I'm wrong) the club shop profits don't go back to the club anymore. He might not have his hand directly in the till, but there's more than one way to skin a proverbial cat. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianovthetoon Posted May 19, 2018 Share Posted May 19, 2018 Totally agree with the notion of everything said, but as he owns the whole shebang it’s a pretty moot point. Irrespective of his dodgy accounting methods, hiving off revenue streams etc, it’s his to do as he sees fit. If he allows the club to grow and gives Rafa what he wants I don’t really give a shit. If he doesn’t though, I’m out. Sadly the fat cockney bastard doesn’t give a shit Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoppaz Posted May 19, 2018 Share Posted May 19, 2018 People need to also forget the debt of £144m. Ashley paid off the mortgage on the ground due to a clause when he bought the club so the "debt" is mostly the actually stadium. To add some perspective the Fulham owner offered many times our "debt" for Wembley's 90k stadium. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dokko Posted May 19, 2018 Share Posted May 19, 2018 Just hope whatever trickery thry are doing with the accounts is all above board and legal. It'll be the club that sufferers if not, he'll walk away no blame attached. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted May 19, 2018 Share Posted May 19, 2018 The fat cunt has no intention in the slightest of investing into this club and taking it forward - something he has proven time and time again. What exactly are you expecting? And a strange thing to say when the figures today show he put in £15m in 16/17. putting £15m in to try and fix his own mistakes is not "investing" in the club like Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sho Time Posted May 19, 2018 Share Posted May 19, 2018 I have a horrible feeling shelvey or someone will be sold late in the window. Hugely dependant on Rafa staying or going. But aye, still share the same concerns. He'll be replaced by free agent Ki Sung-Yeung. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mighty__mag Posted May 19, 2018 Share Posted May 19, 2018 How many of these players can actually leave free or negotiate free moves away, and what from those who we can sell is realistically available in incoming cash from sales and wages? Would this still come under the "every penny the club generates" slogan? Mitrovic,Colback,Armstrong,Haidara,Saivet,Mbemba,Gamez,Lazaar,Sels,Aarons. Added to the alleged 50m Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odear Posted May 19, 2018 Share Posted May 19, 2018 We spent just shy of 40m last summer. No way Rafa would accept 50 as a budget and see that as some sort of serious improvement. I thought we only had an 11mil net spend though? If he gets 50mil and sales that means he would have 30 mil more as a rough figure compared to last summer. I think. If you take all the outgoing transfers and assume that all that cash immediately transferred to the club accounts, than yes this would be more accurate but we got larger fees for players based on staggered payments. Spurs still owe us at least 10m for Sissoko.. not sure what the Wijnaldum deal was set up like. My own take on it is that when the club did spend last summer, they ran out of cash quickly. We had limited funds. I’m not sure Rafa was mislead on budget but he was definitely obstructed in his transfer targets. This summer should be a different kettle.. it’s not so simple as saying, oh the club earned 125m for tv money so that’s what Rafa will have to spend. The club still has to operate, pay wages, not just the players. Commercial revenue is still largely stifled by having Sports Direct plastered all over the place. So to me that’s the biggest deception. I also have a feeling that the Fun88 deal was set up to include a large up front payment that would have gone towards transfers as well last summer, so that has to be factored in this year too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted May 19, 2018 Share Posted May 19, 2018 No, Ashley the man and his companies are all separate entities. He’d only pay tax on income (interest or dividends) received from those companies- which he hasn't taken from NUFC (ever, I think). No, he's taken no money directly from NUFC. But he does get free advertising for his tatty chav clothes shops from us via the entirely unpaid advertising around the ground, worth millions in lost revenue annually, and IIRC (please correct me if I'm wrong) the club shop profits don't go back to the club anymore. He might not have his hand directly in the till, but there's more than one way to skin a proverbial cat. None of that has anything to do with what Shelvey asked, I was just making the point that it isn't some personal tax thing. The retail setup contracts out all the ops to SD, so NUFC do not show the full value of the sales, or any of the associated costs, just a royalty payment. Given the nature of SD's business, that is probably a more efficient way of managing the operation, no idea what a fair royalty % would be though. People need to also forget the debt of £144m. Ashley paid off the mortgage on the ground due to a clause when he bought the club so the "debt" is mostly the actually stadium. The amount oustanding on the stadium loan was in the region of £60-70m, so the current figure on shareholder loan is mostly working capital injections when cash has been tight. Anyway, you are right to say people should forget it. I know I make this post at the same time every year, but it's an important point when considering reasonable expectations of supporters... The amount outstanding to Ashley or his holding companies may be listed as debt in the accounts but from a practical perspective it is no such thing. There is no interest paid (either in cash or in kind), no fixed schedule of repayment, and the risk and reward of the debtholder and equity holder are identical - ie that it's 100% the same ultimate party. So that full amount is in fact equity. Funding a business with SHL as opposed to common equity is standard- I often see projects where the common equity will be £50k and the Shareholder Loan in the hundreds of millions. No-one financing those projects thinks SHL is debt, it's just a more convenient form of equity, as you can get tax relief on the interest payment (this is usually the main method of shareholder return). In March this year, various charges over NUFC and parent entities in favour of Barclays were released- this would suggest that NUFC has either negotiated an unsecured overdraft or more likely, has fully repaid any previously undrawn position. The latter would mean NUFC now carries no debt. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiresias Posted May 19, 2018 Share Posted May 19, 2018 What a shock, his utterly incompetent running of the club has led to us not having enough money to fund ourselves. He's created a problem, running us badly, it's cost him money having to put money in to us to even start to put things right and now will risk having to put more money in to bail us out instead. He's like a boxing trainer who starves his boxer then is shocked when he loses a fight so starves him more. It's Ashley's money, he is entitled to want the club to fund itself, but the thing is it fucking would with a little bit of investment, keeping rafa and he'd probably make a profit fairly quickly and all would be ok. If he wasn't funding it because he reckons he's going to sell it soon that would be one thing, but there's clearly no concrete interest or his price is just above the going rate anyone is willing to pay. Honestly anyone looking at us thinks he's going to have to drop that price sooner or alter either in desperation to sell or because we crash and burn a bit more so are just waiting. If he's not funding us because he genuinely thinks that is isn't money he'll ever get back in any way and thinks he won't lose value on the club and revenue, well that's also mad. It is of course both. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Venkman Posted May 19, 2018 Share Posted May 19, 2018 Absolutely exhausted with this shit now, TBH, can't even be arsed to read the details. He has personality disorder and he's hell bent on fucking us over at every opportunity as long as he stays on the PL gravy train, that's all you need to know. Cannot be fucking arsed with it anymore. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted May 19, 2018 Share Posted May 19, 2018 Absolutely exhausted with this shit now, TBH, can't even be arsed to read the details. He has personality disorder and he's hell bent on fucking us over at every opportunity as long as he stays on the PL gravy train, that's all you need to know. Cannot be fucking arsed with it anymore. someone else was saying the other day they wish he'd just hurry things along and push rafa out so we can get on with hating him and the club again, i'm not quite there yet but not far off tbh Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted May 19, 2018 Share Posted May 19, 2018 What a shock, his utterly incompetent running of the club has led to us not having enough money to fund ourselves. He's created a problem, running us badly, it's cost him money having to put money in to us to even start to put things right and now will risk having to put more money in to bail us out instead. He's like a boxing trainer who starves his boxer then is shocked when he loses a fight so starves him more. It's Ashley's money, he is entitled to want the club to fund itself, but the thing is it fucking would with a little bit of investment, keeping rafa and he'd probably make a profit fairly quickly and all would be ok. If he wasn't funding it because he reckons he's going to sell it soon that would be one thing, but there's clearly no concrete interest or his price is just above the going rate anyone is willing to pay. Honestly anyone looking at us thinks he's going to have to drop that price sooner or alter either in desperation to sell or because we crash and burn a bit more so are just waiting. If he's not funding us because he genuinely thinks that is isn't money he'll ever get back in any way and thinks he won't lose value on the club and revenue, well that's also mad. It is of course both. If it was costing him money to 'bail us out' he'd have sold years ago. I just don't believe any of this shite doesn't matter how his accountants dress it up. Look at what's happening at Sunderland to see what owners do when clubs are genuinely costing them money. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted May 19, 2018 Share Posted May 19, 2018 Stay in the PL and NUFC pays for itself and hands his SD company the kind of exposure that advertising simply cannot buy and that’s why he’s still and always likely to be our owner unless someone pays way over the odds for us or he dies which is more preferable. I of course consider a value of 400m for NUFC to be worth it, but from a non biased business perspective it’s not, it’s worth about 300m max and that’s on.y as an established mid-table or above PL side which we are not and haven’t really been under Ashley. I can, and I hate thinking this way, see why he runs us the way he does financially. He does not understand football or sees any value in becoming a top club. He looks at players earning 50k a week and thinks how many people he can employ to sell his tat in his SD stores for that. He doesn’t value players, managers, facilities, not when a business can pull in 53k customers every other week and get over 100m just for being on TV. The sad thing is that if he wanted to he could make NUFC into one of the top clubs in England and not by spending his own money, but by being more ambitious, by speculating to accumulate. It wouldn’t take make. Top 6 can be achieved regularly with someone like Rafa and a trophy is something that can be attained as we have that kind of manager at the club who can win silverware as he’s proved. But... he just doesn’t care, doesn’t understand and doesn’t want any of that. The only way out for us is to drive him out, stop going, make the club too expensive for him to own. Make it totally toxic to be associated with. Never going to happen. There are people who would love to buy us and even pay a premium, but he keeps moving the goalposts as he did with Dtavely which by all accounts was a done deal or close to. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiresias Posted May 19, 2018 Share Posted May 19, 2018 What a shock, his utterly incompetent running of the club has led to us not having enough money to fund ourselves. He's created a problem, running us badly, it's cost him money having to put money in to us to even start to put things right and now will risk having to put more money in to bail us out instead. He's like a boxing trainer who starves his boxer then is shocked when he loses a fight so starves him more. It's Ashley's money, he is entitled to want the club to fund itself, but the thing is it fucking would with a little bit of investment, keeping rafa and he'd probably make a profit fairly quickly and all would be ok. If he wasn't funding it because he reckons he's going to sell it soon that would be one thing, but there's clearly no concrete interest or his price is just above the going rate anyone is willing to pay. Honestly anyone looking at us thinks he's going to have to drop that price sooner or alter either in desperation to sell or because we crash and burn a bit more so are just waiting. If he's not funding us because he genuinely thinks that is isn't money he'll ever get back in any way and thinks he won't lose value on the club and revenue, well that's also mad. It is of course both. If it was costing him money to 'bail us out' he'd have sold years ago. I just don't believe any of this shite doesn't matter how his accountants dress it up. Look at what's happening at Sunderland to see what owners do when clubs are genuinely costing them money. yeah I'm with you, albeit I do believe basically he wants us to fund ourselves and not have to spend any money from his side of things. If he has indeed put money in to cover loss of premier league status for a season it should be clear proof that to get us paying for ourselves needs investment etc etc and then he can step back. I do believe we could be sustainable and competative without having a super sugardaddy owner paying for everything. Not win the league no but basically what Rafa says he wants. But as Rafa has said you have to invest in the training ground, be able to attract players etc etc. He had evidence the scrape along doing the minimum costs him more money in the long run yet I bet he continues to ignore this. I agree, he would have sold us if we were costing him serious money, if he really wanted rid of us the price would come down to teh point of genuine interest coming in. He doesn't want to sell us per se, he would like £400m though and would sell us for that amount. Noone is biting though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowlingcrofty Posted May 19, 2018 Share Posted May 19, 2018 https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/newcastles-takeover-close-collapse-after-12562387 Nowt new. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiresias Posted May 19, 2018 Share Posted May 19, 2018 How is that a new story? That's all stuff that happened a while ago Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stifler Posted May 19, 2018 Share Posted May 19, 2018 https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/newcastles-takeover-close-collapse-after-12562387 Nowt new. They have put up that story a couple of times over the last week but it’s not been noticed by anyone, didn’t even get any RT’s on Twitter. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
xLiaaamx Posted May 19, 2018 Share Posted May 19, 2018 Collapse Staveley's never had any real interest in buying either. Not to the extent that was made out. Neither party were that bothered in doing it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelveys Hair Posted May 19, 2018 Share Posted May 19, 2018 Collapse Staveley's never had any real interest in buying either. Not to the extent that was made out. Neither party were that bothered in doing it. But up until the latest accounts, I bet Rafa had a good knowledge of proper accounts via Stavely. The bloke would not be out of place in the Roman senate. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelveys Hair Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 Totally agree with the notion of everything said, but as he owns the whole shebang it’s a pretty moot point. Irrespective of his dodgy accounting methods, hiving off revenue streams etc, it’s his to do as he sees fit. If he allows the club to grow and gives Rafa what he wants I don’t really give a shit. If he doesn’t though, I’m out. Sadly the fat cockney bastard doesn’t give a shit This.. If Rafa doesnt get any kind of workable finance then leaves, Im done with the club. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest chopey Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 Ashley is obsessed with not putting anymore money into the club and yet according to the accounts he still has to !! For a skint billionaire surely this would be a reason to find a buyer and sell up and walk away with a tidy profit. If Ashley wants to gamble then why not take a lumper and then get the rest performance based. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCK Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 I hope you're all ready for summer takeover speculation that will result in little to no financial backing in the transfer market. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 I hope you're all ready for summer takeover speculation that will result in little to no financial backing in the transfer market. Am I ever. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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