Video Assistant Referees (VAR)

[Kaizero]

6 minutes ago, Inferior Acuña said:

I really jumped into dispute the suggestion that a goal being disallowed by VAR is similar to pre-VAR, which I just don't buy at all, as, like I say, it takes a glance to check a linesman, whereas VAR goes to review.

 

The end result is the same: the celebration stops once you notice something isn't right. With VAR you admittedly would celebrate a bit longer before realizing it might not stand than with the linesman flagging, so I can see the disappointment of a possible overturned goal being higher. But not celebrating at all? I don't buy that. If so, as mentioned, it's a conscious decision not to celebrate because you dislike something that makes the game more fair.

 

Again though, I am not arguing that VAR in the PL at the moment isn't utter shit due to the horrid refs. VAR is not meant to take center stage at all and yet it constantly does in the PL.

 

 

Edited June 24, 2021 by Kaizero

[Superior Acuña]

14 minutes ago, Kaizero said:

 

The end result is the same: the celebration stops once you notice something isn't right. With VAR you admittedly would celebrate a bit longer before realizing it might not stand than with the linesman flagging, so I can see the disappointment of a possible overturned goal being higher. But not celebrating at all? I don't buy that. If so, as mentioned, it's a conscious decision not to celebrate because you dislike something that makes the game more fair.

 

Again though, I am not arguing that VAR in the PL at the moment isn't utter shit due to the horrid refs. VAR is not meant to take center stage at all and yet it constantly does in the PL.

 

 

 

 

Come on, I don't think the linesman's flag v VAR is substantively the same thing at all. Checking a linesman's flag is basically instantaneous, you know it's a goal when you begin celebrating. Some people don't check sure, you always see a few numpties jumping about when the stadium knows it was disallowed, but I reckon most people do. With VAR I'm not saying I don't celebrate at all, it's kind of cautious half celebration for a goal that seems like there could be an offside or something in run up. And to me that's a really big deal, because by far the best thing about football is the unique thing it has of the instant joy at the ball hitting the back of the net. It's no a conscious decision, it's that I don't feel that same instantaneous joy when I know the goal is being checked for validity.

 

As for the fairness thing, I just don't give that much of a shit. Perez's goal under Rafa v Everton was offside, I couldn't really give a fuck, I'm glad we had that moment. Sure referees should do their best, but increasing fairness is not worth being to the detriment of the best part of the game for me. If it was all about fairness for me, I'd probably prefer they devise a different game to determine who the best footballers were. We've argued about that bit before, that's just subjective about what you care about the game.

 

We've argued about this before and think have to agree to disagree. I don't think fairness is as important as you do, and you obviously experience goals different to me.

 

 

Edited June 24, 2021 by Inferior Acuña

[Kaizero]

9 minutes ago, Inferior Acuña said:

 

Come on, I don't think the linesman's flag v VAR is substantively the same thing at all. Checking a linesman's flag is basically instantaneous, you know it's a goal when you begin celebrating. Some people don't check sure, you always see a few numpties jumping about when the stadium knows it was disallowed, but I reckon most people do. With VAR I'm not saying I don't celebrate at all, it's kind of cautious half celebration for a goal that seems like there could be an offside or something in run up. And to me that's a really big deal, because by far the best thing about football is the unique thing it has of the instant joy at the ball hitting the back of the net. It's no a conscious decision, it's that I don't feel that same instantaneous joy when I know the goal is being checked for validity.

 

As for the fairness thing, I just don't give that much of a shit. Perez's goal under Rafa v Everton was offside, I couldn't really give a fuck, I'm glad we had that moment. Sure referees should do their best, but increasing fairness is not worth being to the detriment of the best part of the game for me. If it was all about fairness for me, I'd probably prefer they devise a different game to determine who the best footballers were. We've argued about that bit before, that's just subjective about what you care about the game.

 

 

 

 

It's a frustrating situation as at the same time as I understand your point of view, I don't understand it as I can't get into that mindset. It's all subjective though, as you say. For me there's no issue as I'm not thinking about the fact they check every goal and it might be disallowed, as well as me finding enjoyment in there being less human error in the game. We're just on different sides of the aisle and I am really sorry that for you the game is a worse experience than before. In an ideal world you'd find something that works for everyone. I also understand I'm probably in the minority, so if there ever was a popular vote and VAR was removed I'd not have kicked up a fuzz. But for me, it's improved my enjoyment of football massively.

 

It's been good debating this with you though, it's becoming rare to have an actual interaction on here that doesn't end up with name calling and calling people nazis if there's just a slight disagreement in opinion  

 

 

Edited June 24, 2021 by Kaizero

[mrmojorisin75]

Not paid too much attention to the detail of what they've been doing but whatever it is this is the way to utilise VAR - no fuckling about, don't show everyone everything, get a decision quick and move on

[Fantail Breeze]

VAR absolutely wank yet again. May as well start picking decisions out of a hat.

 

Leeds should’ve had a pen against us.

The penalty not given for Southampton yesterday after a review.

About three wrong/daft decisions in the Man Utd game.

Handballs given for nothing these days after the rules have been fucked about with to justify VAR.

[thomas]

On 24/04/2018 at 15:13, thomas said:

 

sounds like VAR is cool and good ya'll. it's going to happen. imo it doesn't have to be utterly faultless to be used, just better than bobby madley. incremental improvements and the like.

I stand vindicated.

 

 

Edited August 21, 2022 by thomas

[joeyt]

Just seen the decisions in the Villa game yesterday

 

How on earth have they given that Digne handball

[Yorkie]

The decisions in our match today didn't result in an overzealous application of either the handball or offside rule, so it was fine. Same as the last VAR review that happened in the Leicester game in April. Its use on incidents like that doesn't horribly impose on the spirit of the game; it just ensures that a horrible injustice doesn't prevail. 

 

What's ludicrous is the presence of VAR suddenly dictating that a ball accidentally grazing a man's arm is a foul; or being a wisp of a shirt sleeve ahead of a defender means you're gaining an unfair advantage.

[Nobody]

2 minutes ago, Yorkie said:

The decisions in our match today didn't result in an overzealous application of either the handball or offside rule, so it was fine. Same as the last VAR review that happened in the Leicester game in April. Its use on incidents like that doesn't horribly impose on the spirit of the game; it just ensures that a horrible injustice doesn't prevail. 

 

What's ludicrous is the presence of VAR suddenly dictating that a ball accidentally grazing a man's arm is a foul; or being a wisp of a shirt sleeve ahead of a defender means you're gaining an unfair advantage.

Used fairly well today, but still missed a blatant penalty for us.

Would still get rid of it tomorrow, even if it meant us losing that game. Not being able to celebrate a goal properly is fucking shite. Being at games without VAR feels so fucking good, because you know what had happened actually happened. No need to worry about something that happened a minute before the goal was scored. 

[RodneyCisse]

How did they get Miggys goal so wrong on the pitch?

[Schecter]

We lose that game and have a man sent off without VAR. However to give a pen when the ball is blasted off a defender's arms is ridiculous.  They still miss stuff too,  was at the game I didn't notice or remember the pen incident but it always seems like when it's a close call against the 'Big Teams'  they give it in favour of them,  then review it, so without the crutch of VAR maybe it would have been different.  However I doubt it.  Overall I think it's been a bad implementation of something that can make it slightly more even. 

[Anon]

Rewatching the Schar incident, even though I think it's a penalty, he does back into Stones slightly which I reckon gave VAR nothing to do as it's not an obvious error by the ref.

[NUFC]

Theres also the fact the PL have a "high bar" they keep talking about for VAR interventions means they would never give that as a pen.

[Conjo]

11 hours ago, RodneyCisse said:

How did they get Miggys goal so wrong on the pitch?

 

Didn't fully grasp it either. Was it looked at as a potential handball by Wilson, offside or both? Or something else?

[midds]

Complete guess here but I think the lino thought Willock had made contact with the ball just before Almiron bundles it home? It's the only thing I can think of to explain it. 

[Cf]

1 minute ago, midds said:

Complete guess here but I think the lino thought Willock had made contact with the ball just before Almiron bundles it home? It's the only thing I can think of to explain it. 

 

Wasn't Willock even more onside than Almiron?

 

One of those where it doesn't matter if the linesman flags or not isn't it. VAR will always check it. 

[midds]

Just now, Cf said:

 

Wasn't Willock even more onside than Almiron?

 

One of those where it doesn't matter if the linesman flags or not isn't it. VAR will always check it. 

But if Willock gets a touch then Almiron is off

[Cf]

2 minutes ago, midds said:

But if Willock gets a touch then Almiron is off

 

Ah of course

[Happinesstan]

2 hours ago, Conjo said:

 

Didn't fully grasp it either. Was it looked at as a potential handball by Wilson, offside or both? Or something else?

I think they were checking to see if Wilson had touched it, if he had Miggy would have been offside.

 

EDIT: As above.

 

 

Edited August 22, 2022 by Happinesstan

[Mazzy]

More than ever that game against Man City shows why we need VAR. As many have said, we'd have one less goal and one less player on the pitch if not for VAR and likely go on to lose.

 

I know people will complain about the Schar/Stones penalty not being given but the problem is not with VAR in that instance because the referee has already made the decision not to give it so VAR won't overule unless its clear and obvious. 

 

For whatever reason it seemed the ref and linesman were waiting for any opportunity to disallow a goal or send one of our players off, VAR thankfully prevents that from happening by being there and allowing all to see the workings of it.

[OverThere]

VAR saved us twice yesterday. The refereeing team was terrible. IMO at least VAR stops the excesses of the Man U, Man C and Liverpool bias.

[Awaymag]

2 minutes ago, Mazzy said:

More than ever that game against Man City shows why we need VAR. As many have said, we'd have one less goal and one less player on the pitch if not for VAR and likely go on to lose.

 

I know people will complain about the Schar/Stones penalty not being given but the problem is not with VAR in that instance because the referee has already made the decision not to give it so VAR won't overule unless its clear and obvious. 

 

For whatever reason it seemed the ref and linesman were waiting for any opportunity to disallow a goal or send one of our players off, VAR thankfully prevents that from happening by being there and allowing all to see the workings of it.

The idea of VAR itself is a good one. Its just the implementation of it when trying to use the definition quality of a TV screen to draw lines to make a decision on whether a players toenail is offside or not.  If its that close then its nots clear and obvious and the original decision should stand.   Some games have been stop for 3-5 mins whilst they make a decision - that's just not right!

[Mazzy]

2 minutes ago, Awaymag said:

The idea of VAR itself is a good one. Its just the implementation of it when trying to use the definition quality of a TV screen to draw lines to make a decision on whether a players toenail is offside or not.  If its that close then its nots clear and obvious and the original decision should stand.   Some games have been stop for 3-5 mins whilst they make a decision - that's just not right!

 

I do understand that and it is frustrating but I think they are just trying to cover their back with the whole offside line drawing thing.  As far as I'm concerned I'd rather they take an extra 2 minutes and definitely get the correct call on whether its offside or not.

 

Its either offside or its not, there's not a gray area but there are some closer calls than others. A toe offside is still offside as annoying as that may be to us all who want to see more goals. They can't flip flop between giving and not giving those goals as that wouldn't be fair, so I see it as consistency if they always give those very close calls as offside.

[Awaymag]

2 minutes ago, Mazzy said:

 

I do understand that and it is frustrating but I think they are just trying to cover their back with the whole offside line drawing thing.  As far as I'm concerned I'd rather they take an extra 2 minutes and definitely get the correct call on whether its offside or not.

 

Its either offside or its not, there's not a gray area but there are some closer calls than others. A toe offside is still offside as annoying as that may be to us all who want to see more goals. They can't flip flop between giving and not giving those goals as that wouldn't be fair, so I see it as consistency if they always give those very close calls as offside.

Definition of a TV screen is not that precise and making these 1 cm calls from a line on the screen is just crap science.  Its theatre for the tv viewer.    Anyway VARs is here to stay, hope they continue to improve the use of it, as I said previously, its a good idea.

[Happinesstan]

7 minutes ago, Mazzy said:

 

I do understand that and it is frustrating but I think they are just trying to cover their back with the whole offside line drawing thing.  As far as I'm concerned I'd rather they take an extra 2 minutes and definitely get the correct call on whether its offside or not.

 

Its either offside or its not, there's not a gray area but there are some closer calls than others. A toe offside is still offside as annoying as that may be to us all who want to see more goals. They can't flip flop between giving and not giving those goals as that wouldn't be fair, so I see it as consistency if they always give those very close calls as offside.

There is a grey area. The accuracy with which they choose the frame which they base their decision upon. The movement and speed of the players involved means you cannot get an accurate picture from one frame.

Of course, it's possible they do all the necessary calculations but we the viewer only get to see the compelling evidence.