Yorkie Posted July 20, 2020 Share Posted July 20, 2020 Of course it is: but the point is you're using Joelinton as a defence of Bruce, as if we should be absolving him of any responsibility there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alberto2005 Posted July 20, 2020 Share Posted July 20, 2020 He's done ok. No better no worse. He could have won the league and he'd still be shit. He's been a manager long enough now for everyone to know he's a top half Championship manager. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Away Day Gadgie Posted July 20, 2020 Share Posted July 20, 2020 He has done okay this season. No Perez and Rondon is clearly is a massive loss (which has been underplayed all season on this board). We got lucky, but we had some good wins. Worried pre-season but we were safe a third of the way through the season. Football was super s*** at home too many times but 11 wins and 11 draws with a game to go is fine. Clearly we need the takeover and a new manager to progress but Bruce hasn't been a "failure". Obviously no takeover or new manager will be rattled this season but so vital we stayed up this season. So so important. He's benefitted massively from taking over a Rafa coached squad, even if he has made them shitter along the way. Rondon and Perez scored 25 goals combined. Joelinton scored 2. Don't care about transfer fees. There is -23 goals there. That's huge. You say this as if Rondon and Perez still would’ve scored 25 goals that season had Bruce been in charge. They both had personal record scoring seasons as far as their premier league careers are concerned. I’m pretty confident that was largely because they were working for Rafa Benitez. Put those 2 in a Steve Bruce team and i’d bet that Rondon would look isolated like he did at WBA under Pulis, and Perez would probably be benched after a few games. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Posted July 20, 2020 Share Posted July 20, 2020 Of course it is: but the point is you're using Joelinton as a defence of Bruce, as if we should be absolving him of any responsibility there. Joelinton is the extra player anyway. Rondon and Gayle were the interchangeable players as they literally did. Given where they loosely play you can assume ASM replaces the much despised Perez. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted July 20, 2020 Share Posted July 20, 2020 Saying he replaced Perez suggests the was a modicum of footballing strategy in the ASM transfer. Just like with Joelinton, there was none of that, though fortunately for Bruce's sake, ASM has actually contributed something unlike that other wing-and-a-prayer. Whilst we're comparing them though: take ASM out of this side and it's slogging away to the very end with Villa and Bournemouth; I'm not convinced we'd have stayed up, as spirit would've inevitably ebbed away given the lack of any sort of actual gameplan. Remove Perez from last season and we'd have struggled of course, but Rafa would've found a way. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Posted July 20, 2020 Share Posted July 20, 2020 Saying he replaced Perez suggests the was a modicum of footballing strategy in the ASM transfer. Just like with Joelinton, there was none of that, though fortunately for Bruce's sake, ASM has actually contributed something. Whilst we're comparing rumen though, remove ASM from this side and it's slogging away to the very end with Villa and Bournemouth; I'm not convinced we'd have stayed up, as spirit would've inevitably ebbed away given the lack of any sort of actual gameplan. Remove Perez from last season and we'd have struggled of course, but Rafa would've found a way. I agree but on a basic level they play the same positions so I guess it can be classed as such, god forbid more than one player of quality is available for a position. I think I’ll have posted a fair bit on this, for me this season was never going to be the issue - I didn’t think we’d go down, next season who knows but as I posted earlier I certainly couldn’t tell you (non takeover) what the plans are because there doesn’t seem to have been any. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raconteur Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 Saying he replaced Perez suggests the was a modicum of footballing strategy in the ASM transfer. Just like with Joelinton, there was none of that, though fortunately for Bruce's sake, ASM has actually contributed something. Whilst we're comparing rumen though, remove ASM from this side and it's slogging away to the very end with Villa and Bournemouth; I'm not convinced we'd have stayed up, as spirit would've inevitably ebbed away given the lack of any sort of actual gameplan. Remove Perez from last season and we'd have struggled of course, but Rafa would've found a way. I agree but on a basic level they play the same positions so I guess it can be classed as such, god forbid more than one player of quality is available for a position. I think I’ll have posted a fair bit on this, for me this season was never going to be the issue - I didn’t think we’d go down, next season who knows but as I posted earlier I certainly couldn’t tell you (non takeover) what the plans are because there doesn’t seem to have been any. See, I absolutely thought we were certain to go down - which is why it's hard to argue with the notion that Bruce has done "okay", when I personally expected to break Derby's lowest points total. That said, getting 2 goals out of Joelinton over a whole season is just not good enough. He was significantly more productive last season, and while he's in a newer and (arguably) tougher league, he's still producing far short of what he has in the past. Bruce's entire "success" is based on a Hail Mary signing that came with a (clearly undeserved) reputation of being more selfish and troublesome than HBA. If nothing else, he made ASM a certain starter, giving him a level of confidence he'd never had previously. Should Bruce be given credit for that? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mag_in_NZ Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 If it hadn’t been for our defenders in the first half of the season I reckon we would have had 11 points less and would be suffering from some serious “arse-twitching”. This is obviously fairly simplistic and could be said others would have scored the goal anyway!.......but this doesn’t take into consideration the regular outstanding performance of Dubs to keep us in the game Lady Luck may keep us up again next season but only a takeover certainly will Steve Bruce won’t Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 He has done okay this season. No Perez and Rondon is clearly is a massive loss (which has been underplayed all season on this board). We got lucky, but we had some good wins. Worried pre-season but we were safe a third of the way through the season. Football was super s*** at home too many times but 11 wins and 11 draws with a game to go is fine. Clearly we need the takeover and a new manager to progress but Bruce hasn't been a "failure". Obviously no takeover or new manager will be rattled this season but so vital we stayed up this season. So so important. He's benefitted massively from taking over a Rafa coached squad, even if he has made them shitter along the way. Rondon and Perez scored 25 goals combined. Joelinton scored 2. Don't care about transfer fees. There is -23 goals there. That's huge. Let’s give Kenny Dalglish a reprieve since Shearer & Ferdinand scored 41 goals between them in 96/97 but Shearer & Tomasson only scored 5 the next season. Bore off man. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 He has done okay this season. No Perez and Rondon is clearly is a massive loss (which has been underplayed all season on this board). We got lucky, but we had some good wins. Worried pre-season but we were safe a third of the way through the season. Football was super s*** at home too many times but 11 wins and 11 draws with a game to go is fine. Clearly we need the takeover and a new manager to progress but Bruce hasn't been a "failure". Obviously no takeover or new manager will be rattled this season but so vital we stayed up this season. So so important. He's benefitted massively from taking over a Rafa coached squad, even if he has made them shitter along the way. Rondon and Perez scored 25 goals combined. Joelinton scored 2. Don't care about transfer fees. There is -23 goals there. That's huge. You say this as if Rondon and Perez still would’ve scored 25 goals that season had Bruce been in charge. They both had personal record scoring seasons as far as their premier league careers are concerned. I’m pretty confident that was largely because they were working for Rafa Benitez. Put those 2 in a Steve Bruce team and i’d bet that Rondon would look isolated like he did at WBA under Pulis, and Perez would probably be benched after a few games. Fantastic post. Last season he had a forward line with Grealish & Abraham in it in the Championship. He was sacked with them lying 12th. A new manager came in and got the same side promoted. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shearergol Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 I don't care about the transfer fee. I don't care about Bruce talking shit. Joelinton has 2 goals compared to an effective Rondon and Perez duo who were massively more productive. That is a tremendous difference. "You can't call the manager shit because the players he's been managing have been shit" You reckon Perez and Rondon would score as many under Bruce then? Or Joelinton wouldn't score more in a Rafa team? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shearergol Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 I don't care about the transfer fee. I don't care about Bruce talking shit. Joelinton has 2 goals compared to an effective Rondon and Perez duo who were massively more productive. That is a tremendous difference. "You can't call the manager shit because the players he's been managing have been shit" You reckon Perez and Rondon would score as many under Bruce then? Or Joelinton wouldn't score more in a Rafa team? Wish I'd read the posts which already made this point Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilson Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 I don't care about the transfer fee. I don't care about Bruce talking shit. Joelinton has 2 goals compared to an effective Rondon and Perez duo who were massively more productive. That is a tremendous difference. "You can't call the manager shit because the players he's been managing have been shit" You reckon Perez and Rondon would score as many under Bruce then? Or Joelinton wouldn't score more in a Rafa team? Wish I'd read the posts which already made this point He does seem to gloss over a few things like that including the ASM factor. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 And having Almiron for a full season rather than a quarter of it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shearergol Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 And having Almiron for a full season rather than a quarter of it. Yeah but he hasn't played as well. The players not playing as well is on them, and them alone. Bruce has done a good job if you think about how the players have decided to use their own shitty tactics. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happinesstan Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 And having Almiron for a full season rather than a quarter of it. Yeah but he hasn't played as well. The players not playing as well is on them, and them alone. Bruce has done a good job if you think about how the players have decided to use their own shitty tactics. They've played to their standard. Rafa got them exceeding their ability. Good managers are capable of that. Just look at the number of players that went on to better things once Fergie was finished with them. Edit: Calling him Fergie seems incorrect. I'm certain that was his affectionate nickname during his career, and yet now it doesn't seem right, at all. That was weird. I'm okay now but that was weird. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bondedcrown Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 Until then I'll go to work and see the CEO and plan for the summer. That's all we can do. It's frustrating." ;D Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest chopey Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 Spot on Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 He has done okay this season. No Perez and Rondon is clearly is a massive loss (which has been underplayed all season on this board). We got lucky, but we had some good wins. Worried pre-season but we were safe a third of the way through the season. Football was super s*** at home too many times but 11 wins and 11 draws with a game to go is fine. Clearly we need the takeover and a new manager to progress but Bruce hasn't been a "failure". Obviously no takeover or new manager will be rattled this season but so vital we stayed up this season. So so important. He's benefitted massively from taking over a Rafa coached squad, even if he has made them shitter along the way. Rondon and Perez scored 25 goals combined. Joelinton scored 2. Don't care about transfer fees. There is -23 goals there. That's huge. I'll never accept the Joelinton argument because Bruce being the manager is one reason why he's been our first choice striker all season. Bottom line Joelinton scored 2 goals. We are 23 goals down on Rondon and Perez. You can't gloss over it. That's just a riff on the injuries argument, "nothing can be done" etc. Ignores the fact Bruce has injury crises at every club he manages and in Joelintons case assumes no other manager could get more than two goals out of him and also assumes he'd have got 25 goals from Rondon & Perez, which he absolutely would not have done. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest chopey Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 Last games of the season tend to throw up crazy results I wonder if Liverpool turn up on Sunday, get an early goal and then hammer us, it would be a fitting send off for Bruce. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ikon Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 Last games of the season tend to throw up crazy results I wonder if Liverpool turn up on Sunday, get an early goal and then hammer us, it would be a fitting send off for Bruce. Bruce will be the manager next season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shearergol Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 And having Almiron for a full season rather than a quarter of it. Yeah but he hasn't played as well. The players not playing as well is on them, and them alone. Bruce has done a good job if you think about how the players have decided to use their own shitty tactics. They've played to their standard. Rafa got them exceeding their ability. Good managers are capable of that. Just look at the number of players that went on to better things once Fergie was finished with them. Edit: Calling him Fergie seems incorrect. I'm certain that was his affectionate nickname during his career, and yet now it doesn't seem right, at all. That was weird. I'm okay now but that was weird. Ok, I obviously need to use safety winks today. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK-421 Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 Doesn't mean we won't buy one, it just means he won't know much about it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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