Allan Saint-Maximin (now playing for Al-Ahli)

[ponsaelius]

If anything it was the absolute polar opposite of hiding - with my abiding memory being watching game after game of every attack going through him. Which was always frustrating because you knew he just didn't have enough creatively as a player so it would always result in failure.

 

As a player with a very narrow function in a particular system he was an effective outlet. It's why he has a stupid amount of caps for France for a player of his talent level - more than ASM, Robert, Ginola, HBA combined. He found a tactical niche in a slightly weaker generation to the current one.

 

[Minhosa]

1 minute ago, Kid Icarus said:

 

Aye, because you brought up how Sissoko being in the starting 11 of a relegated Watford team said everything you needed to know about him. I just brought up all the bits you'd missed out. 

 

Judging them solely on their time here, I thought Sissoko was alright despite his regular big time charlie interviews with the French media (lining up with the way NUFC was sold to him as a stepping stone at the time) but I don't think he went missing, certainly not to the extent that Wijnaldum did anyway. 

 

 

 

Games are won and lost in midfield imho. I've always believed that and still maintain it nowadays despite all of the wider discussion around systems/styles/Klopp/Pep etc etc. Ultimately a team with an effective midfield wins more games than one without. Almost regardless of what's behind it or in front of it.

 

He's been a key component in two midfields that have been relegated. Contrary to some inferences on here, he's not and never was highly thought of at Spurs and I can't imagine Watford fans are too keen to see him grace their midfield next season.

 

I can't talk for his international reputation because I've not followed it particularly closely.

 

I can say having watched him closely for NUFC that he called it in on many occasions and was probably why he was very widely booed on his return to SJP.

 

He was also publically criticised by Poch after his first 18 months at Spurs I believe so he's not pulled up any tree's anywhere (except internationally, arguably) despite the defence of him on here.

 

I'd rate his time at NUFC as 3/10 and think he's a bit of an advert for the NUFC we were at the time.

 

I don't really see the value in comparing him to GW tbh but I know which one I'd take back at the club if forced.

 

[sushimonster85]

6 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

In that era people on here loved Vurnon Anita. He was awful. Many preferred him to Tiote.

 

That seems especially odd given that I'm pretty sure Anita was the player we signed to cover/replace Cabeye when we thought he was off the first time. 

[The College Dropout]

2 minutes ago, ponsaelius said:

If anything it was the absolute polar opposite of hiding - with my abiding memory being watching game after game of every attack going through him. Which was always frustrating because you knew he just didn't have enough creatively as a player so it would always result in failure.

 

As a player with a very narrow function in a particular system he was an effective outlet. It's why he has a stupid amount of caps for France for a player of his talent level - more than ASM, Robert, Ginola, HBA combined. He found a tactical niche in a slightly weaker generation to the current one.

 

Thing is... he wasn't bad technically in terms of simple passing, first touch. And that level of athleticism is rare even in elite football. So he was useful for 2 different managers in very different sides. Even Mourinho found him useful.

 

He essentially did Joelinton's CM role at those clubs and it largely worked. Think Sissoko was a little tidier in possession (obviously quicker and less strong) but worse in the box or final ball. I like that athletic profile of player in a midfield 3.

 

Agree with you overall. My abiding memory of him is exactly the same.

[Tiresias]

I remember being frustrated with Sissoko phoning it in too, he clearly had plenty of talent and I am sure it is more complicated than him not being motivated but I remember being delighted spurs decided to spend so much on him. He had some good games, his peaks were high but he wasn't consistent when we needed him. I do remember him absolutely rinsing Ashley Cole at Chelsea when we'd just bought him iirc and was glorious. 

[The College Dropout]

2 minutes ago, sushimonster85 said:

 

That seems especially odd given that I'm pretty sure Anita was the player we signed to cover/replace Cabeye when we thought he was off the first time. 

Don't recall that.

 

I recall Tiote getting pelters week in week out though. Again, another one that didn't hide, always got on the ball and tried to make things happen. Did his best.

 

Anita always ran from the struggle. 

[triggs]

23 minutes ago, ponsaelius said:

Sissoko never hid. I definitely refute that and always think it's revisionist nonsense mistaking playing shite (and looking a bit grumpy) to hiding. He was always fully fit, played every single game, and always gave it his all. It's just that he was not a very creative or refined footballer so relying on him into be your primary outlet in a relegation threatened side is asking for trouble. He was never good enough to be that player.

 

He became scapegoat for that relegation. While Wijnaldum, who basically downed tools with months left and couldn't get into the side, is looked back upon fondly by NUFC fans for some reason.

Bang on

[gbandit]

4 minutes ago, Tiresias said:

I remember being frustrated with Sissoko phoning it in too, he clearly had plenty of talent and I am sure it is more complicated than him not being motivated but I remember being delighted spurs decided to spend so much on him. He had some good games, his peaks were high but he wasn't consistent when we needed him. I do remember him absolutely rinsing Ashley Cole at Chelsea when we'd just bought him iirc and was glorious. 

Couldn’t believe the transfer fee we got from Spurs, all thanks to the international tournament that summer 

[Pata]

3 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

Don't recall that.

 

I recall Tiote getting pelters week in week out though. Again, another one that didn't hide, always got on the ball and tried to make things happen. Did his best.

 

Anita always ran from the struggle. 

 

This made me so mad. Many saying 'Anita kept us ticking, 8/10' while Tiote got pelters when in reality Tiote had way more touches, better passing % and was a beast physically compared to probably our softest CM ever. Grim times. 

[Conjo]

 

Pretty much sums him up

[Kid Icarus]

17 minutes ago, Minhosa said:

Games are won and lost in midfield imho. I've always believed that and still maintain it nowadays despite all of the wider discussion around systems/styles/Klopp/Pep etc etc. Ultimately a team with an effective midfield wins more games than one without. Almost regardless of what's behind it or in front of it.

 

He's been a key component in two midfields that have been relegated. Contrary to some inferences on here, he's not and never was highly thought of at Spurs and I can't imagine Watford fans are too keen to see him grace their midfield next season.

 

I can't talk for his international reputation because I've not followed it particularly closely.

 

I can say having watched him closely for NUFC that he called it in on many occasions and was probably why he was very widely booed on his return to SJP.

 

He was also publically criticised by Poch after his first 18 months at Spurs I believe so he's not pulled up any tree's anywhere (except internationally, arguably) despite the defence of him on here.

 

I'd rate his time at NUFC as 3/10 and think he's a bit of an advert for the NUFC we were at the time.

 

I don't really see the value in comparing him to GW tbh but I know which one I'd take back at the club if forced.

 

 

If that's how you see it, fair enough.

 

I thought he was really good at Spurs after getting beyond being ridiculed when he first got there, especially in the Champions League. 

 

Re the bit in bold, anecdotal but my boss is a Watford fan (was on a recent behind enemy lines sort of thing on True Faith I think) and we've spoken about him before - he rates him for where they are and puts the blame squarely at them not being able to defend/their owners' hiring and firing model.

 

We boo literally every ex-player, including James Milner. I agree that the perception of him here is bad though, that's what we're disagreeing about really. 

 

The reason he was compared to GW was because the accusation of him was that he hid when we were relegated. GW was invisible away from home, wasn't getting on the ball towards the end of the season and was dropped. Digging out Sissoko for hiding is based on very little anyway imo, but seems especially weird considering how guilty of that Wijnaldum was. Wijnaldum was and is obviously the better player, but in terms of graft and heart, Sissoko beats him hands down during their time here. 

[leffe186]

49 minutes ago, gbandit said:

Can only really talk about him based on his time here as I didn’t watch him closely at Spurs. The few times I did see him for Spurs, he seemed one of their weaker players. Maybe @leffe186 can let us know what the consensus of opinion from Spurs fans was on Sissoko there 

IIRC at first everyone was very unimpressed because he’s not great on the ball. He was something of a pariah tbh. Eventually people came round to him somewhat just because he always tried and occasionally bludgeoned an opponent into submission but even those who liked him accepted he was overpriced and limited. Useful squad player. 
 

Had a quick look - some relatively recent quotes:

 

Was such a Sissoko gonna miss kind of chance too. You or me could've put it away, but dear old Moussa had different plans and, true to form he found the upper tier of the stand. Long live the enigma that is Moussa Sissoko.

 

I’m finding thinking the same with Emerson as with Sissoko in his passing game. Just give it to the closest person and I’m happy.

 

Watching Bentancur and Hojbjerg constantly call for the ball is a joy and a complete contrast to years of Winks and Sissoko hiding behind midfielders

 

Sissoko had his limitations as a footballer but you could never ever question his efforts or professionalism.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

No idea why he still generates debate, it’s kind of weird. He was an average player who was here ages ago, forget about it. 

[Kid Icarus]

4 minutes ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

No idea why he still generates debate, it’s kind of weird. He was an average player who was here ages ago, forget about it. 

 

I think it lines up with how certain sections of our support have form with criticising players like ASM, Sissoko (or HBA for that matter) despite being some of the top creative players outside of the top 6. As below

 

15 hours ago, mighty__mag said:

48 

 

 

 

 

5 hours ago, Aiston said:

Sissoko spent 2 years top of that for us...he was completely shit according to people on here still

 

 

[leffe186]

5 minutes ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

No idea why he still generates debate, it’s kind of weird. He was an average player who was here ages ago, forget about it. 

Have you seen the internet before? You know that if someone is wrong then people are obliged to respond

[Dr.Spaceman]

FWIW Sissoko had 4 MotM performances in his last year for us and regularly averaged 7/10 across the course of a season.

 

ASM is another that we're insistent on calling worse than shit. Here's his NUFC career stats for you...

 

 

If he's not good enough then we're basically calling a lot of decent ex players not good enough too. It's ridiculous to want us to move him on.

[gbandit]

Personally really like ASM and hope we can get the best out of him as he has a lot of talent. We’ll find out next season whether he can make a step forward with his game in decision making and better final ball passing. I also loved Robert, HBA and Ginola. I just didn’t love Sissoko and I don’t consider him to be similar to any of the other players mentioned as he couldn’t dribble the ball effectively, he couldn’t hold onto the ball well under pressure and he didn’t have great end product 

[Consortium of one]

Sissoko would have been best played as a BtB mid.  He had the athleticism and the drive to have been very successful.  Breaking up play in front of the back line and making late runs into the box suited him to a tee.   Pardew looked at his pace and tried to move him wide and he wasn't technical enough to do well there.

[mighty__mag]

6 hours ago, tomlynnherrington said:

Less than two chances per game created.When you consider how often he gets into positions to create a chance,even by just putting a cross into the danger area.Poor.Very poor.

 

Remind me who created more?

[mighty__mag]

3 hours ago, loki679 said:

 

'The other 14' is not the target anymore.

 

Be careful, you are starting to sound like an Everton fan.

[Barmy Ben Arfa]

I think ASM is going to have his best season yet next season. 10g 5a in the league territory.

[Optimistic Nut]

1 hour ago, Consortium of one said:

Sissoko would have been best played as a BtB mid.  He had the athleticism and the drive to have been very successful.  Breaking up play in front of the back line and making late runs into the box suited him to a tee.   Pardew looked at his pace and tried to move him wide and he wasn't technical enough to do well there.

If we’d used him same way I definitely think he could have been for that side, what Joelinton has become for us.

[mighty__mag]

 

Guy knows, was spot on with Wood.

 

Wood spent plenty of time avoiding opportunities.

[Barmy Ben Arfa]

If Wilson can get a good run of fitness then himself and Maxi will tear it up 

[Minhosa]

3 hours ago, Kid Icarus said:

 

If that's how you see it, fair enough.

 

I thought he was really good at Spurs after getting beyond being ridiculed when he first got there, especially in the Champions League. 

 

Re the bit in bold, anecdotal but my boss is a Watford fan (was on a recent behind enemy lines sort of thing on True Faith I think) and we've spoken about him before - he rates him for where they are and puts the blame squarely at them not being able to defend/their owners' hiring and firing model.

 

We boo literally every ex-player, including James Milner. I agree that the perception of him here is bad though, that's what we're disagreeing about really. 

 

The reason he was compared to GW was because the accusation of him was that he hid when we were relegated. GW was invisible away from home, wasn't getting on the ball towards the end of the season and was dropped. Digging out Sissoko for hiding is based on very little anyway imo, but seems especially weird considering how guilty of that Wijnaldum was. Wijnaldum was and is obviously the better player, but in terms of graft and heart, Sissoko beats him hands down during their time here. 

I'm by no means offering a defence of GW, I've just got no time whatsoever for Sissoko and he is one of my most disliked NUFC players, as you can probably tell.

 

I do think both of them represent a specific time in our history when players were bought for non-sporting reasons (clauses, future value, stepping stones, damaged goods with upside potential) and think both of them fit very much into those brackets.

 

They, and every other player, at the time would almost certainly have been let down by incompetent coaching, management and leadership. That leadership/management, in turn, failed by a shocking executive and owner and a club ran with the intention of survival and minimal investment for maximum return.

 

BUT..........that's a whole other subject, moan etc.

 

Anyway, happy to agree to disagree...