Allan Saint-Maximin (now playing for Fenerbahce, on loan from Al-Ahli)

[Heron]

5 hours ago, r0cafella said:

Hopefully, his posting tonight is so far off which is a shame as @Heronis class. 
 

ASM is an integral part of the squad and is clearly trying to change his game to fit in with what the manager wants. Is he perfect? Of course not and inconsistent is to be expected from players who focus on dribbling. 

Appreciate it, football is a game of opinions though and in my opinion, ASM doesn't do enough for us. He absolutely will win us the occasional game, which is why he's still part of the squad but I think we can upgrade on him easier than a lot of others based on this season.

[Kid Icarus]

No one treats HBA like a God without their tongue in their cheek either like. He's the very definition of a cult hero and for me the player that made a few of the Pardew/Ashley years not just more bearable, but enjoyable.

 

What's the point if you can't enjoy it and get excited by what you're watching? Teams like Newcastle under Ashley aren't getting anywhere near an unflawed Hatem Ben Arfa, he's going to Barca or Real Madrid for stupid money, so for that reason I'm happy he was flawed.

 

Also, for a player that's apparently achieved fuck all, he's achieved a canny bit, even if the general perception of him is that he underachieved.

 

 

 

Edited January 16, 2023 by Kid Icarus

[Geordie Ahmed]

1 hour ago, Heron said:

Players at Manchester City all graft, every single one of them, same with Liverpool, same with Arsenal. Maxi doesn't. Of course every one ha dflair players but they do the basics and they do the dirty work as well.

 

I personally don't give a fuck about winning the entertaining way, I want us to win, I want us to be the best, once we've won 12 cups I'll worry about the entertaining piece.

 

I'd spin that question back to you. How can you have stuck around if you want to just watch entertaining football? We've been far from entertaining for many of the 28 years I've been following them.

 

I am absolutely enjoying every moment of this. That doesn't mean I cannot have a negative opinion on a player, just as everyone seemingly does about Longstaff. Players like ASM have some sort of higher worship on this forum. Same for HBA. Absolutely exciting Players, can do magical things, but if they do it 1 in 10 when we're needing all hands to the pump, that's not enough overall for me.

This HBA narrative of doing it 1 in 10 keeps on being repeated even though it's quite clearly not true.

 

Ben Arfa scored a goal for us every 356 minutes. (Ginola is every 773 minutes,  Robert every 479 minutes)

 

Ben Arfa also had a better goals & assists per minute ratio than Ginola and also Robert too. Yet the narrative is the those guys are amazing (they were) but that he was average (he wasn't). They just had the luxury of mostly playing in a better side and being managed by top man managers.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

I treat HBA like a God. Or a demigod at least

 

Goals and assists are an extremely difficult activity TBF, some top players finish whole seasons with like 4 assists. And I don't know how many goals your average winger scores, but I don't think it's a lot. 

 

I do want to see ASM have more of an impact but I think now is a bit of a harsh time to assess him. He's working to get back into the team and adapt his game, I thought he looked quite good the last few times he came on. Even made a recovery tackle yesterday.

 

On the other hand, if we're in the market for world class players then his role is definitely under threat, like a lot of our squad. 

[Nucasol]

1 minute ago, Geordie Ahmed said:

This HBA narrative of doing it 1 in 10 keeps on being repeated even though it's quite clearly not true.

 

Ben Arfa scored a goal for us every 356 minutes. (Ginola is every 773 minutes,  Robert every 479 minutes)

 

Ben Arfa also had a better goals & assists per minute ratio than Ginola and also Robert too. Yet the narrative is the those guys are amazing (they were) but that he was average (he wasn't). They just had the luxury of mostly playing in a better side and being managed by top man managers.

Would love to have seen HBA in either the SBR or Keegan sides. Scarily good.

[Kid Icarus]

I missed the 1 in 10 bit. HBA scored or assisted at a rate of 1 in every 3.5 starts for Newcastle - far past every other player in the Newcastle squad at the time he left and on par with Juan Mata, another supposedly lazy wide player who Man United had just bought for £37 million at the time. 

 

 

Edited January 16, 2023 by Kid Icarus

[PRL]

I've got to disagree with the narrative that ASM gets a free pass. As is shown in this thread and others on the board, plus at the game, people are very quick to get on his back. Using the example of Longstaff only works as he's probably the one player out there who gets stick quicker than ASM, but some of that has to do with him playing like a fly half rather than a footballer with recent attempts on goal. If ASM had missed the volume of chances that Longstaff has in recent games, fans would be all over him. Not saying it's the right thing, but I'm sure it would happen.

[Theregulars]

7 hours ago, mighty__mag said:

 

But if you've supported Newcastle as long as I have, then you'd know we've never been in a position to be champions, are we blaming flair players for us never winning anything? How have you stuck around supporting us this long if you want a team of champions?

 

I couldn't think of anything worse than a bunch of hard working result grinders, managed by a boring fucker like Mourinho. I want to enjoy this, I want to enjoy Howe, the players taking us on the beginning of the new era, we'll build slowly, we'll get it wrong, and we'll get it right, the Man City model is probably a vision these owners might duplicate, or, it might be very different.

 

I find it unusual you'd say being a talented baller isn't enough, you need those types of players, because one player can't do it all, I'm sure Man City, Liverpool, Chelsea, have all had a baller who couldn't do everything, but, in a side with many good players around you, that said player was appreciated for what he did bring I'm sure. 

 

We cant be running before we can walk, and if this takeover produces success, it will take ages before we see Newcastle champions, perhaps because we are currently over achieving if we're honest, are some people seriously writing off good players and demanding a team of champions already? because we find ourselves third in the league, and in a semi final of a cup.

 

Just enjoy it man, tbh it's a miracle its happening, (although its divided fans because of where the money has come from,) but on the football side of things I thought my one and only enjoyment was going to be the 90s, an eleven year old buzzing over watching Keegan's entertainers, full of flair players, never won a thing, but, it was the best time of my life, like you want a team of champions now, I never got one then, but I still loved it. Newcastle were everyone's second team, because we played the game in the right way, 'The Entertainers'

 

Jesus I've done a HTT.

 

Honestly man, Maxi isn't the problem, he will be the solution in certain games, just wait and see.

 

And don't be worrying about being a team of champions, it's going to hopefully happen, I just hope I'm here when it does. 

 

☺️??

 

 

Your post says both that you watched the Keegan years and that we’ve never been in a position to be champions. Doesn’t add up at all. Same re saying it’s going to take ages to become champions now - we’re not that far away already.

[Conjo]

8 hours ago, Heron said:

This forum treats Ben Arfa like a god but he achieved fuck all speaks volumes. Being talented and a baller don't necessarily cut it for me. Being part of a team that are champions does.

 

and here I thought you've always sounded like a top guy when posting about NUST and work put in with WF. Turns out you're just miserable twat who hates life. No tifo will ever fill the black hole in your heart until you can embrace the brilliance of HBA.

[Shearergol]

1 hour ago, Heron said:

Players at Manchester City all graft, every single one of them, same with Liverpool, same with Arsenal. Maxi doesn't. Of course every one ha dflair players but they do the basics and they do the dirty work as well.

 

I personally don't give a fuck about winning the entertaining way, I want us to win, I want us to be the best, once we've won 12 cups I'll worry about the entertaining piece.

 

I'd spin that question back to you. How can you have stuck around if you want to just watch entertaining football? We've been far from entertaining for many of the 28 years I've been following them.

 

I am absolutely enjoying every moment of this. That doesn't mean I cannot have a negative opinion on a player, just as everyone seemingly does about Longstaff. Players like ASM have some sort of higher worship on this forum. Same for HBA. Absolutely exciting Players, can do magical things, but if they do it 1 in 10 when we're needing all hands to the pump, that's not enough overall for me.

 

TAA says hi

[Tiresias]

Salah doesnt graft that much at Liverpool either

[Unbelievable]

I’m genuinely baffled at how anyone could have watched that second half and come away with the impression that Saint-Maximin was lazy. I mean, he tried things that didn’t come off and lost the ball a few times trying to do too much, but he was double and at times triple marked by Fulham (allowing others space elsewhere on the pitch), got a few decent crosses in, laid off the ball to Wilson in the first minute where perhaps he should have been more selfish, had a decent effort that just flashed wide and pressed like a loon even to the point of winning the ball from their left back with a flying tackle in the closing stages of the game.

 

Laziness, you’re having a laugh.

[ExiledGeordie]

5 minutes ago, Unbelievable said:

I’m genuinely baffled at how anyone could have watched that second half and come away with the impression that Saint-Maximin was lazy. I mean, he tried things that didn’t come off and lost the ball a few times trying to do too much, but he was double and at times triple marked by Fulham (allowing others space elsewhere on the pitch), got a few decent crosses in, laid off the ball to Wilson in the first minute where perhaps he should have been more selfish, had a decent effort that just flashed wide and pressed like a loon even to the point of winning the ball from their left back with a flying tackle in the closing stages of the game.

 

Laziness, you’re having a laugh.

Yeah he didn’t look lazy to me ?‍♂️ 

[Gallowgate Toon]

1 minute ago, Unbelievable said:

I’m genuinely baffled at how anyone could have watched that second half and come away with the impression that Saint-Maximin was lazy. I mean, he tried things that didn’t come off and lost the ball a few times trying to do too much, but he was double and at times triple marked by Fulham (allowing others space elsewhere on the pitch), got a few decent crosses in, laid off the ball to Wilson in the first minute where perhaps he should have been more selfish, had a decent effort that just flashed wide and pressed like a loon even to the point of winning the ball from their left back with a flying tackle in the closing stages of the game.

 

Laziness, you’re having a laugh.

Not sure if it translates well on TV (if you weren't there) but there were quite a few times that he made some odd runs or, should I say, lack of to make himself available when others needed options. Definitely looked a bit lazy at the time but he might've been told to stay higher, or he was maybe conserving energy cause it looked like he was blowing out of his arse on occasion.

 

On the ball, I thought he did exactly what we needed him to do and it's great to have him back in the fray. 

[nortoon]

Thought maxi was terrific in all aspects in his game yesterday. A couple of the balls he played to get us out of defense were great. The one he played to Wilson arguably should have been a goal if Wilson had managed to put in Willock.

[Wallsendmag]

We looked far better 2nd half with him in the team. He stretches defences, he immediately creates more space for others. Bruno is head and shoulders our best player but we looked better when he went off and ASM came on. I'd like to see Longstaff sacrificed so Joelinton can play in the middle with Bruno and Willock so we can get ASM back on the pitch more regularly.

[Lush Vlad]

I thought he was really effective.  Not his usual cavalier self and wasn't skinning players for fun.  But he regularly had 2-3 players on him.  Which then gave us a bit more space on the right for a change.  

 

Once Isak came on and started drifting about.  The extra bodies they had on ASM, meant he found plenty of space to operate.  Joelinton was similar. 

 

He looked for the give and go a couple of times and all.  He has looked a bit static at times since coming back in, always wanting it to feet and not stretching teams in behind.  So that was another plus.

 

You have to think he'll start against Palace now.  So I'm hoping he will be the positive to come from Bruno being out.  

[andyc35i]

My impression from yesterday wasn’t that he was overly lazy, it’s just that he’s not tactically aware of how we press and react to certain attacking and defensive situations right now. I guess that will come with more minutes in the side now that Bruno is injured 

[Groundhog63]

Thought he did well. You can see a change in his game and that chase he did to tackle the Fulham player on the opposite flank was great stuff. 

Not sure if I'm correct but he also did a little mazy, cameo run, lost the ball and lay on the deck for ages whilst we'd won the ball back and continued to attack. 

He's an enimga for sure ??

[Lush Vlad]

I was expecting to see a bit of a love in across the board.  For his new found unselfishness and better work rate. 

 

But I've just read 2-3 pages of a pissed up Heron slating him to fuck and constantly comparing him to Sean Longstaff for some reason   

[GWN]

Seemingly willing to pass the ball now , I thought he was a game changer tbh.

[Jaqen]

Thought he put in a good shift. You can tell when clearly making an effort to be more of a team player as well. Actually think in some instances it hurts him though, he's looking for passes in positions he'd probably be better of driving at their defence like he used to. Think he just needs a run of games in the side and he'll start to find the right balance. 

[mighty__mag]

2 hours ago, Theregulars said:

Your post says both that you watched the Keegan years and that we’ve never been in a position to be champions. Doesn’t add up at all. Same re saying it’s going to take ages to become champions now - we’re not that far away already.

 

We weren't we were always missing something, and Manchester Utd were serial winners, we always came close but never managed it. Were you around for the KK times yourself? We only truly came close once, but like I said something was missing, even Keegan knew he'd taken us as far as he could.

 

And on now, I do believe it will take a while, we all thought at the start of the season 7th or a Europa spot would be a success of the back of surviving relegation, that's still a realistic target, we're over achieving slightly and nobody would have had us in this position and a cup semi, but other things have played a part, yes we've lost one game and that's amazing, but Liverpools dip, Spurs, Chelsea etc, these things have all come into play along with our excellent form and made this season unpredictable. I'll stand by what I said, we wont be champions for a good while, and that's another debate.

 

The bit in bold, I do believe you're getting carried away, but dont think it's a patronising or arrogant reply, I wish I had that confidence, I guess we'll see as it unfolds, so much can still change as it did in 95, we were sat top of the league at this stage with 18 games played.

 

 

Edited January 16, 2023 by mighty__mag

[sushimonster85]

Think he showed enough yesterday to be given another shot back in the starting 11. Especially if Bruno is out and Joe needs to drop back into midfield. As others have pointed out, he seems far more willing to run/track back for the team (I feel like this actually started pre-injury), and his eye for a pass/cross seems to have improved. 

[Tiotes Witch Doctor]

Thought he looked very good and very sharp yesterday, but I don't think he will ever be as good as he thinks he is and as good as a lot of our fans think he is.

 

He's a handy player to bring on from the bench, but his end product is wildly inconsistent and I'm not sure he has it in him to do the ugly work the likes of Willock, Joelinton and Almiron do on regular basis.

 

He did track back yesterday mind, but is he going to run himself into the ground for the cause week in week out? Probably not.

 

His injury record is enough that in the summer I'd look to cash in for as much money as possible and bring in a more suitable replacement.

 

 

Edited January 16, 2023 by Tiotes Witch Doctor