Allan Saint-Maximin (now playing for Fenerbahce, on loan from Al-Ahli)

[Geordie Ahmed]

2 minutes ago, Heron said:

Fair. But I'd also expect more assists, successful dribbles, assists and/or goals. Maxi' provides little of these too.tosays stays *according to fotmob*

 

12/14 successful passes

0/4 successful dribbles

1/1 successful tackles

0 goals

0 assists

0/1 shots on target

 

Not thenstand out player people are alluding to. Unless your levels are low.

This season he has more assists than Longstaff despite playing considerably less minutes, considerably more dribbles as well

 

I don't think he was amazing today but certainly didn't do anything wrong to warrant being attacked 

 

 

 

 

[Heron]

3 minutes ago, Geordie Ahmed said:

This season he has more assists than Longstaff despite playing considerably less minutes, considerably more dribbles as well

 

I don't think he was amazing today but certainly didn't do anything wrong to warrant being attacked 

 

 

 

 

He didn't do owt, that's why he's being attacked. It's the lack of effort. The "all about me" showmanship.

 

Obviously they're not like for like positions but my point is SL gets a lot more stick yet it's totally unjust. One is playing to his maximum and the other isn't.

 

 

Edited January 16, 2023 by Heron

[Heron]

Furthermore, if Maxi isn't scoring or assisting what is he doing to benefit us other than dragging an extra 1 or 2 players spare?

[Geordie Ahmed]

2 minutes ago, Heron said:

He didn't do owt, that's why he's being attacked. It's the lack of effort. The "all about me" showmanship.

 

Obviously they're not like for like positions but my point is SL gets a lot more stick yet it's totally unjust. One is playing to his maximum and the other isn't.

 

 

 

I didn't see this lack of effort, just because he was tackled doesn't mean he didn't try, just like none of Isak's attempted dribbles were successful 

 

He was very good when he came on against Bournemouth and Leeds. The rest he didn't have much time.

 

If you are expecting a player to score/assist every game then you have some unrealistic expectations 

[Kid Icarus]

Looking elsewhere, I think it's fair to say that Heron's view on ASM's performance today is in the extreme minority 

[mighty__mag]

13 minutes ago, Heron said:

Fair dues fella. I'm objective. Maximins aren't my kinda player. This forum treats Ben Arfa like a god but he achieved fuck all speaks volumes. Being talented and a baller don't necessarily cut it for me. Being part of a team that are champions does.

 

But if you've supported Newcastle as long as I have, then you'd know we've never been in a position to be champions, are we blaming flair players for us never winning anything? How have you stuck around supporting us this long if you want a team of champions?

 

I couldn't think of anything worse than a bunch of hard working result grinders, managed by a boring fucker like Mourinho. I want to enjoy this, I want to enjoy Howe, the players taking us on the beginning of the new era, we'll build slowly, we'll get it wrong, and we'll get it right, the Man City model is probably a vision these owners might duplicate, or, it might be very different.

 

I find it unusual you'd say being a talented baller isn't enough, you need those types of players, because one player can't do it all, I'm sure Man City, Liverpool, Chelsea, have all had a baller who couldn't do everything, but, in a side with many good players around you, that said player was appreciated for what he did bring I'm sure. 

 

We cant be running before we can walk, and if this takeover produces success, it will take ages before we see Newcastle champions, perhaps because we are currently over achieving if we're honest, are some people seriously writing off good players and demanding a team of champions already? because we find ourselves third in the league, and in a semi final of a cup.

 

Just enjoy it man, tbh it's a miracle its happening, (although its divided fans because of where the money has come from,) but on the football side of things I thought my one and only enjoyment was going to be the 90s, an eleven year old buzzing over watching Keegan's entertainers, full of flair players, never won a thing, but, it was the best time of my life, like you want a team of champions now, I never got one then, but I still loved it. Newcastle were everyone's second team, because we played the game in the right way, 'The Entertainers'

 

Jesus I've done a HTT.

 

Honestly man, Maxi isn't the problem, he will be the solution in certain games, just wait and see.

 

And don't be worrying about being a team of champions, it's going to hopefully happen, I just hope I'm here when it does. 

 

☺️??

 

 

[Pata]

1 hour ago, Heron said:

Fair. But I'd also expect more assists, successful dribbles, assists and/or goals. Maxi' provides little of these too as stats suggest *according to fotmob*

 

Maybe you should use a bit larger sample size. ASM had 150 successful dribbles in 21/22. Next best in the PL had 90 (McNeil) and third had 75 (Zaha). But back then he was labelled selfish, now he's getting stick for passing the ball.

 

https://www.kickest.it/en/premier-league/stats/players/successful-dribbles/2021-2022

[r0cafella]

1 hour ago, Kid Icarus said:

Looking elsewhere, I think it's fair to say that Heron's view on ASM's performance today is in the extreme minority 

Hopefully, his posting tonight is so far off which is a shame as @Heronis class. 
 

ASM is an integral part of the squad and is clearly trying to change his game to fit in with what the manager wants. Is he perfect? Of course not and inconsistent is to be expected from players who focus on dribbling. 

[Heron]

6 hours ago, Geordie Ahmed said:

I didn't see this lack of effort, just because he was tackled doesn't mean he didn't try, just like none of Isak's attempted dribbles were successful 

 

He was very good when he came on against Bournemouth and Leeds. The rest he didn't have much time.

 

If you are expecting a player to score/assist every game then you have some unrealistic expectations 

No. I don't but there were numerous occasions where ASM was still and the game passed him by. I expect yo him to work like every other squad player works, and he doesn't. He doesn't score and assist often enough, so we cannot afford his laziness is my point.

[MrRaspberryJam]

I thought he was canny when he came on. Obviously nowhere near his best but very lively and nearly scored. Hasn't played much recently so was never going to be at his best.

[Heron]

5 hours ago, mighty__mag said:

 

But if you've supported Newcastle as long as I have, then you'd know we've never been in a position to be champions, are we blaming flair players for us never winning anything? How have you stuck around supporting us this long if you want a team of champions?

 

I couldn't think of anything worse than a bunch of hard working result grinders, managed by a boring fucker like Mourinho. I want to enjoy this, I want to enjoy Howe, the players taking us on the beginning of the new era, we'll build slowly, we'll get it wrong, and we'll get it right, the Man City model is probably a vision these owners might duplicate, or, it might be very different.

 

I find it unusual you'd say being a talented baller isn't enough, you need those types of players, because one player can't do it all, I'm sure Man City, Liverpool, Chelsea, have all had a baller who couldn't do everything, but, in a side with many good players around you, that said player was appreciated for what he did bring I'm sure. 

 

We cant be running before we can walk, and if this takeover produces success, it will take ages before we see Newcastle champions, perhaps because we are currently over achieving if we're honest, are some people seriously writing off good players and demanding a team of champions already? because we find ourselves third in the league, and in a semi final of a cup.

 

Just enjoy it man, tbh it's a miracle its happening, (although its divided fans because of where the money has come from,) but on the football side of things I thought my one and only enjoyment was going to be the 90s, an eleven year old buzzing over watching Keegan's entertainers, full of flair players, never won a thing, but, it was the best time of my life, like you want a team of champions now, I never got one then, but I still loved it. Newcastle were everyone's second team, because we played the game in the right way, 'The Entertainers'

 

Jesus I've done a HTT.

 

Honestly man, Maxi isn't the problem, he will be the solution in certain games, just wait and see.

 

And don't be worrying about being a team of champions, it's going to hopefully happen, I just hope I'm here when it does. 

 

☺️??

 

 

Players at Manchester City all graft, every single one of them, same with Liverpool, same with Arsenal. Maxi doesn't. Of course every one ha dflair players but they do the basics and they do the dirty work as well.

 

I personally don't give a fuck about winning the entertaining way, I want us to win, I want us to be the best, once we've won 12 cups I'll worry about the entertaining piece.

 

I'd spin that question back to you. How can you have stuck around if you want to just watch entertaining football? We've been far from entertaining for many of the 28 years I've been following them.

 

I am absolutely enjoying every moment of this. That doesn't mean I cannot have a negative opinion on a player, just as everyone seemingly does about Longstaff. Players like ASM have some sort of higher worship on this forum. Same for HBA. Absolutely exciting Players, can do magical things, but if they do it 1 in 10 when we're needing all hands to the pump, that's not enough overall for me.

[Joseph]

6 hours ago, Heron said:

Even if you assess the equivalent time on the pitch, more effort, more tackles, more passes - would be surprised if any of those stats were in ASMs favour.

Hasn’t saved a single shot all season either this cunt. Get rid. 

[Heron]

5 hours ago, Pata said:

 

Maybe you should use a bit larger sample size. ASM had 150 successful dribbles in 21/22. Next best in the PL had 90 (McNeil) and third had 75 (Zaha). But back then he was labelled selfish, now he's getting stick for passing the ball.

 

https://www.kickest.it/en/premier-league/stats/players/successful-dribbles/2021-2022

Totally different team though then, Maxi has played his part, he is a talented dribbler, one of the most talented I've ever seen, but he isn't what we now need. Or certainly isn't enough to be a starter, especially if he doesn't graft.

[Heron]

5 hours ago, r0cafella said:

Hopefully, his posting tonight is so far off which is a shame as @Heronis class. 
 

ASM is an integral part of the squad and is clearly trying to change his game to fit in with what the manager wants. Is he perfect? Of course not and inconsistent is to be expected from players who focus on dribbling. 

Appreciate it, football is a game of opinions though and in my opinion, ASM doesn't do enough for us. He absolutely will win us the occasional game, which is why he's still part of the squad but I think we can upgrade on him easier than a lot of others based on this season.

[Kid Icarus]

No one treats HBA like a God without their tongue in their cheek either like. He's the very definition of a cult hero and for me the player that made a few of the Pardew/Ashley years not just more bearable, but enjoyable.

 

What's the point if you can't enjoy it and get excited by what you're watching? Teams like Newcastle under Ashley aren't getting anywhere near an unflawed Hatem Ben Arfa, he's going to Barca or Real Madrid for stupid money, so for that reason I'm happy he was flawed.

 

Also, for a player that's apparently achieved fuck all, he's achieved a canny bit, even if the general perception of him is that he underachieved.

 

 

 

Edited January 16, 2023 by Kid Icarus

[Geordie Ahmed]

1 hour ago, Heron said:

Players at Manchester City all graft, every single one of them, same with Liverpool, same with Arsenal. Maxi doesn't. Of course every one ha dflair players but they do the basics and they do the dirty work as well.

 

I personally don't give a fuck about winning the entertaining way, I want us to win, I want us to be the best, once we've won 12 cups I'll worry about the entertaining piece.

 

I'd spin that question back to you. How can you have stuck around if you want to just watch entertaining football? We've been far from entertaining for many of the 28 years I've been following them.

 

I am absolutely enjoying every moment of this. That doesn't mean I cannot have a negative opinion on a player, just as everyone seemingly does about Longstaff. Players like ASM have some sort of higher worship on this forum. Same for HBA. Absolutely exciting Players, can do magical things, but if they do it 1 in 10 when we're needing all hands to the pump, that's not enough overall for me.

This HBA narrative of doing it 1 in 10 keeps on being repeated even though it's quite clearly not true.

 

Ben Arfa scored a goal for us every 356 minutes. (Ginola is every 773 minutes,  Robert every 479 minutes)

 

Ben Arfa also had a better goals & assists per minute ratio than Ginola and also Robert too. Yet the narrative is the those guys are amazing (they were) but that he was average (he wasn't). They just had the luxury of mostly playing in a better side and being managed by top man managers.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

I treat HBA like a God. Or a demigod at least

 

Goals and assists are an extremely difficult activity TBF, some top players finish whole seasons with like 4 assists. And I don't know how many goals your average winger scores, but I don't think it's a lot. 

 

I do want to see ASM have more of an impact but I think now is a bit of a harsh time to assess him. He's working to get back into the team and adapt his game, I thought he looked quite good the last few times he came on. Even made a recovery tackle yesterday.

 

On the other hand, if we're in the market for world class players then his role is definitely under threat, like a lot of our squad. 

[Nucasol]

1 minute ago, Geordie Ahmed said:

This HBA narrative of doing it 1 in 10 keeps on being repeated even though it's quite clearly not true.

 

Ben Arfa scored a goal for us every 356 minutes. (Ginola is every 773 minutes,  Robert every 479 minutes)

 

Ben Arfa also had a better goals & assists per minute ratio than Ginola and also Robert too. Yet the narrative is the those guys are amazing (they were) but that he was average (he wasn't). They just had the luxury of mostly playing in a better side and being managed by top man managers.

Would love to have seen HBA in either the SBR or Keegan sides. Scarily good.

[Kid Icarus]

I missed the 1 in 10 bit. HBA scored or assisted at a rate of 1 in every 3.5 starts for Newcastle - far past every other player in the Newcastle squad at the time he left and on par with Juan Mata, another supposedly lazy wide player who Man United had just bought for £37 million at the time. 

 

 

Edited January 16, 2023 by Kid Icarus

[PRL]

I've got to disagree with the narrative that ASM gets a free pass. As is shown in this thread and others on the board, plus at the game, people are very quick to get on his back. Using the example of Longstaff only works as he's probably the one player out there who gets stick quicker than ASM, but some of that has to do with him playing like a fly half rather than a footballer with recent attempts on goal. If ASM had missed the volume of chances that Longstaff has in recent games, fans would be all over him. Not saying it's the right thing, but I'm sure it would happen.

[Theregulars]

7 hours ago, mighty__mag said:

 

But if you've supported Newcastle as long as I have, then you'd know we've never been in a position to be champions, are we blaming flair players for us never winning anything? How have you stuck around supporting us this long if you want a team of champions?

 

I couldn't think of anything worse than a bunch of hard working result grinders, managed by a boring fucker like Mourinho. I want to enjoy this, I want to enjoy Howe, the players taking us on the beginning of the new era, we'll build slowly, we'll get it wrong, and we'll get it right, the Man City model is probably a vision these owners might duplicate, or, it might be very different.

 

I find it unusual you'd say being a talented baller isn't enough, you need those types of players, because one player can't do it all, I'm sure Man City, Liverpool, Chelsea, have all had a baller who couldn't do everything, but, in a side with many good players around you, that said player was appreciated for what he did bring I'm sure. 

 

We cant be running before we can walk, and if this takeover produces success, it will take ages before we see Newcastle champions, perhaps because we are currently over achieving if we're honest, are some people seriously writing off good players and demanding a team of champions already? because we find ourselves third in the league, and in a semi final of a cup.

 

Just enjoy it man, tbh it's a miracle its happening, (although its divided fans because of where the money has come from,) but on the football side of things I thought my one and only enjoyment was going to be the 90s, an eleven year old buzzing over watching Keegan's entertainers, full of flair players, never won a thing, but, it was the best time of my life, like you want a team of champions now, I never got one then, but I still loved it. Newcastle were everyone's second team, because we played the game in the right way, 'The Entertainers'

 

Jesus I've done a HTT.

 

Honestly man, Maxi isn't the problem, he will be the solution in certain games, just wait and see.

 

And don't be worrying about being a team of champions, it's going to hopefully happen, I just hope I'm here when it does. 

 

☺️??

 

 

Your post says both that you watched the Keegan years and that we’ve never been in a position to be champions. Doesn’t add up at all. Same re saying it’s going to take ages to become champions now - we’re not that far away already.

[Conjo]

8 hours ago, Heron said:

This forum treats Ben Arfa like a god but he achieved fuck all speaks volumes. Being talented and a baller don't necessarily cut it for me. Being part of a team that are champions does.

 

and here I thought you've always sounded like a top guy when posting about NUST and work put in with WF. Turns out you're just miserable twat who hates life. No tifo will ever fill the black hole in your heart until you can embrace the brilliance of HBA.

[Shearergol]

1 hour ago, Heron said:

Players at Manchester City all graft, every single one of them, same with Liverpool, same with Arsenal. Maxi doesn't. Of course every one ha dflair players but they do the basics and they do the dirty work as well.

 

I personally don't give a fuck about winning the entertaining way, I want us to win, I want us to be the best, once we've won 12 cups I'll worry about the entertaining piece.

 

I'd spin that question back to you. How can you have stuck around if you want to just watch entertaining football? We've been far from entertaining for many of the 28 years I've been following them.

 

I am absolutely enjoying every moment of this. That doesn't mean I cannot have a negative opinion on a player, just as everyone seemingly does about Longstaff. Players like ASM have some sort of higher worship on this forum. Same for HBA. Absolutely exciting Players, can do magical things, but if they do it 1 in 10 when we're needing all hands to the pump, that's not enough overall for me.

 

TAA says hi

[Tiresias]

Salah doesnt graft that much at Liverpool either

[Unbelievable]

I’m genuinely baffled at how anyone could have watched that second half and come away with the impression that Saint-Maximin was lazy. I mean, he tried things that didn’t come off and lost the ball a few times trying to do too much, but he was double and at times triple marked by Fulham (allowing others space elsewhere on the pitch), got a few decent crosses in, laid off the ball to Wilson in the first minute where perhaps he should have been more selfish, had a decent effort that just flashed wide and pressed like a loon even to the point of winning the ball from their left back with a flying tackle in the closing stages of the game.

 

Laziness, you’re having a laugh.