Kid Icarus Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 What I still don't get and I haven't seen a single answer for, is why the 'support the team not the regime' argument that's been used for the last 13 years has disappeared. If people felt they could support the club whilst not defending or excusing Mike Ashley, why do folk suddenly feel the need to excuse war criminals? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 Petrol legit smells fantastic. It smells almost as good as Rafa's left armpit as he's holding aloft a black-and-white-tassled FA Cup. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafalove Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 I think we have had a much better deal from refs this year with var although that’s a different topic. As a fanbase it’s really sad the stance we’re taking on this. Painting ourselves as victims when in reality we’re the ones who are about to ruin football even more. We aren't painting ourselves as victims as a fanbase. You will get some who will whinge about the media, but I would imagine there are plenty like me who think it will be nice to compete for stuff as a football club again. There's no victimhood in that. You've got Rafa as your avatar there, do you think he should refuse to come back because of the Saudi link? We are painting ourselves as victims as fanbase. Many are pretending, acting as though the media are picking on us specifically because it’s us and that they wouldn’t do it if it was say Liverpool or Manchester United, mimicking the behaviour seen by Man City fans under their ownership. The Rafa question is a good one, I’m not gonna lie, I’d be pretty excited if he came back. Maybe it does implicate him, maybe the likes of Guardiola also need to be criticised for going to work for Man City. Brian Clough turned down the Brighton(?) job down on account of them being tories, so it wouldn’t be unheard of. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Icarus Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 No one pays taxes to the Tories or takes benefits from them , thats the job of the state And who sets the budget on how taxes and benefits are allocated? Doesnt matter dont mix up the governing party with the State I imagine everyone except you knew exactly the point I was making. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dokko Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/sport/football/amnesty-international-writes-to-premier-league-about-newcastle-takeover/21/04/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foluwashola Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 Fans hate referees, they hate journalists criticising them, they hate a lot of things. It's the stupidest part of the tribal nature of the sport. Surely the tribal nature of football is what partly makes it? If fanbases were in the rugby mould and displayed respect to each other and didn't hypocritically back their team to the hilt it would be terrifyingly dull and disgustingly Tory. Having thought about, very briefly, I see little issue in supporting NUFC under the (potential) new ownership. For me support of your local team has never been linked to the ownership, albeit I did sack of a season ticket this year as it became abundantly clear we had lost the will to compete. Support is everything Sir Bobby outlined in that famous quote. If we had the option would we rather have an owner who didn't engage in human rights abuse? Aye, but Newcastle fans' ability to choose who runs their club and to impact global politics is non-existent. If we sought to live a completely pure life we'd almost certainly manage to eradicate all pleasure from our lives. Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/sport/football/amnesty-international-writes-to-premier-league-about-newcastle-takeover/21/04/ Think the idea that pleases me most is the ground potentially looking like that again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
triggs Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 Fans hate referees, they hate journalists criticising them, they hate a lot of things. It's the stupidest part of the tribal nature of the sport. Surely the tribal nature of football is what partly makes it? If fanbases were in the rugby mould and displayed respect to each other and didn't hypocritically back their team to the hilt it would be terrifyingly dull and disgustingly Tory. Having thought about, very briefly, I see little issue in supporting NUFC under the (potential) new ownership. For me support of your local team has never been linked to the ownership, albeit I did sack of a season ticket this year as it became abundantly clear we had lost the will to compete. Support is everything Sir Bobby outlined in that famous quote. If we had the option would we rather have an owner who didn't engage in human rights abuse? Aye, but Newcastle fans' ability to choose who runs their club and to impact global politics is non-existent. If we sought to live a completely pure life we'd almost certainly manage to eradicate all pleasure from our lives. Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in. What's disgustingly tory is saying you don't care about what the Saudi's do as long as its benefitting you, not saying you're saying that mind Welcome back btw Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 I think we have had a much better deal from refs this year with var although that’s a different topic. As a fanbase it’s really sad the stance we’re taking on this. Painting ourselves as victims when in reality we’re the ones who are about to ruin football even more. We aren't painting ourselves as victims as a fanbase. You will get some who will whinge about the media, but I would imagine there are plenty like me who think it will be nice to compete for stuff as a football club again. There's no victimhood in that. You've got Rafa as your avatar there, do you think he should refuse to come back because of the Saudi link? That is a totally reasonable point of view to take but believe me there are a LOT of our fans who have immediately gone to bat for the Saudis, many convinced that it's all an anti-NUFC conspiracy. The position being taken by some of our fans is actually the thing I'm struggling most with, not on here I should add, I think there's more sense here than on Twitter. I should stop reading it tbf. I have infinitely more respect for "I don't care, I don't want to think about politics, I just want to support my team" than "You just hate NUFC and anyway, you can't complain about Saudi bombings because you enjoyed the smell of petrol once when walking past Esso". I think we are talking about different people mate. I said in another thread that because I stay away from facebook and twitter, I don't really come across the type who are wearing towels on their head or putting saudi flags up as their avatars. Maybe if I did, I would be in despair as well. This is precisely why I keep my distance from social media tbh, it would drive me nuts. I find myself even skimming the better newspapers these days, there's only so much I can take on tv and in print. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 Sorry like, but if you're a journalist who also happens to be a Manu or Liverpool fan, and you suddenly see Newcastle Utd getting owners who can possibly blow you out of the water when it comes to transfer fees, you are going to feel threatened. It's just human nature. Let me be clear, that doesn't mean what they are saying is wrong, but it also doesn't mean they are saying it for the right reasons. Don't talk about the people bombing childrens hospitals unless you don't support any football clubs, is essentially the road you're heading down because there's no team in Europe that won't fear us blowing them out of the water by that line of reasoning. By all means talk about people bombing childrens hospitals if that is what you are passionate about, more power to you. But if you are a mackem who has suddenly grown a conscience and decided to give me a lecture about this newly discovered abomination, then I reserve the right to be sceptical. But I'm not though, I'm quite literally one of your own who has the same concerns as these journalists. The things being highlighted don't hold any less merit because of who's saying it if it can be verified as true. Shooting the messenger and ignoring the substance is how dafties in America have ended up automatically defending war criminals and a corrupt media, solely because Trump's one of the people pointing it out. # I wasn't literally talking about you, I was using the mackem example to make a point. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/sport/football/amnesty-international-writes-to-premier-league-about-newcastle-takeover/21/04/ Think the idea that pleases me most is the ground potentially looking like that again. Changing the Newcastle United font to match Sports Direct was such a dick move. Totally unnecessary. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 This sort of thing does us no favours. Only a matter of time before we start railing against the institutionalised anti-NUFC agenda at Amnesty. Mack-amnesty! https://twitter.com/NUFC_Leazes/status/1252598067800481792 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafalove Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 For me that’s the most annoying thing when people conflate individuals owning clubs with nation states. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
triggs Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 Also, Amnesty have criticised Man City in the past Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Icarus Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 Sorry like, but if you're a journalist who also happens to be a Manu or Liverpool fan, and you suddenly see Newcastle Utd getting owners who can possibly blow you out of the water when it comes to transfer fees, you are going to feel threatened. It's just human nature. Let me be clear, that doesn't mean what they are saying is wrong, but it also doesn't mean they are saying it for the right reasons. Don't talk about the people bombing childrens hospitals unless you don't support any football clubs, is essentially the road you're heading down because there's no team in Europe that won't fear us blowing them out of the water by that line of reasoning. By all means talk about people bombing childrens hospitals if that is what you are passionate about, more power to you. But if you are a mackem who has suddenly grown a conscience and decided to give me a lecture about this newly discovered abomination, then I reserve the right to be sceptical. But I'm not though, I'm quite literally one of your own who has the same concerns as these journalists. The things being highlighted don't hold any less merit because of who's saying it if it can be verified as true. Shooting the messenger and ignoring the substance is how dafties in America have ended up automatically defending war criminals and a corrupt media, solely because Trump's one of the people pointing it out. # I wasn't literally talking about you, I was using the mackem example to make a point. I'm sure you get the point I'm making though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheInfiniteOdyssey Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 Sorry like, but if you're a journalist who also happens to be a Manu or Liverpool fan, and you suddenly see Newcastle Utd getting owners who can possibly blow you out of the water when it comes to transfer fees, you are going to feel threatened. It's just human nature. Let me be clear, that doesn't mean what they are saying is wrong, but it also doesn't mean they are saying it for the right reasons. Don't talk about the people bombing childrens hospitals unless you don't support any football clubs, is essentially the road you're heading down because there's no team in Europe that won't fear us blowing them out of the water by that line of reasoning. By all means talk about people bombing childrens hospitals if that is what you are passionate about, more power to you. But if you are a mackem who has suddenly grown a conscience and decided to give me a lecture about this newly discovered abomination, then I reserve the right to be sceptical. But I'm not though, I'm quite literally one of your own who has the same concerns as these journalists. The things being highlighted don't hold any less merit because of who's saying it if it can be verified as true. Shooting the messenger and ignoring the substance is how dafties in America have ended up automatically defending war criminals and a corrupt media, solely because Trump's one of the people pointing it out. # I wasn't literally talking about you, I was using the mackem example to make a point. I'm sure you get the point I'm making though. Out of curiosity, are you going to stop following the team all together if this proposed takeover goes through? The more I think about this takeover, the harder it is to acquiesce with. Yet at the same time, it seems like any such takeover in the modern game was destined to be from a source as unpalatable as this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hughesy Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 Just a quick question on the concept of sportswashing that I'm finding hard to square away - lots of journalists seem to be writing as if it's a given that sportswashing has positive effects for the relevant regime. Is that really true? Does having, let's say, 10,000 NUFC fans on twitter stating that the Saudis are actually stand up guys really make much difference? Does owning a PL football club really add a veneer of respectability to a regime? It seems to me that there's been far more written in the papers about how awful Abu Dhabi and Qatar are in the last 5 years than I ever recall before, which would imply it actually has the opposite effect? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Icarus Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 Sorry like, but if you're a journalist who also happens to be a Manu or Liverpool fan, and you suddenly see Newcastle Utd getting owners who can possibly blow you out of the water when it comes to transfer fees, you are going to feel threatened. It's just human nature. Let me be clear, that doesn't mean what they are saying is wrong, but it also doesn't mean they are saying it for the right reasons. Don't talk about the people bombing childrens hospitals unless you don't support any football clubs, is essentially the road you're heading down because there's no team in Europe that won't fear us blowing them out of the water by that line of reasoning. By all means talk about people bombing childrens hospitals if that is what you are passionate about, more power to you. But if you are a mackem who has suddenly grown a conscience and decided to give me a lecture about this newly discovered abomination, then I reserve the right to be sceptical. But I'm not though, I'm quite literally one of your own who has the same concerns as these journalists. The things being highlighted don't hold any less merit because of who's saying it if it can be verified as true. Shooting the messenger and ignoring the substance is how dafties in America have ended up automatically defending war criminals and a corrupt media, solely because Trump's one of the people pointing it out. # I wasn't literally talking about you, I was using the mackem example to make a point. I'm sure you get the point I'm making though. Out of curiosity, are you going to stop following the team all together if this proposed takeover goes through? The more I think about this takeover, the harder it is to acquiesce with. Yet at the same time, it seems like any such takeover in the modern game was destined to be from a source as unpalatable as this. My stance on it at the moment is that I'll continue doing what I'm doing at the moment, not give the club any money and I'll watch us on Telly. I'll see what happens from there, but none of this sits right with me and my concern is that so many of us are so desperate to get rid of Ashley that our fans and the city have done a deal with the devil. I dunno if I'm being hyperbolic, but when I was thinking about it last night I was more worried about what the impact of having someone like that associated with and in and amongst our city could be tbh. Before we even know what the full extent of that'll be, overnight we have a significant amount of people sticking up for war criminals who wouldn't have dreamed of doing so yesterday calling other people hypocrites for pointing out. I'm laughing, but it's shit tbh. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Little Waster Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 Its a bit daft to talk about ' Sportswashing ' when the UK has a deep and abiding relationship with the Saudis going back to the creation of the modern Saudi state . They are already legitimated through that . Tea with the Queen , cosy chats at Ten Downing Street . People want to get areated about the Saudi state do it in the political arena where you might actually affect change Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Little Waster Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 Literally no one has stuck up for the Saudis Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
triggs Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 Literally no one has stuck up for the Saudis Well, no because that would be impossible. The amount of deflecting from valid criticism of them is ridiculous though Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 Literally no one has stuck up for the Saudis Well, no because that would be impossible. The amount of deflecting from valid criticism of them is ridiculous though Yeap, deflecting what they do because of what x country does is part of what they want. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Icarus Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 Literally no one has stuck up for the Saudis Yes they have. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaydnNUFC Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 The deflection and whataboutism from a lot of our supporters is getting on my nerves a bit like. "Sheffield United" or "they own your paper" being the main ones. But the suggestion that because our team is Newcastle United we implicitly support what the Saudis do in their country and in their foreign policy is also annoying me. Going to be a hypocrite and use whataboutism myself but those who rightly or wrongly attended matches under Ashley were never criticised from the press and countless others on social media for being implicit in what goes on in his warehouses. While that doesn't compare to Saudi actions and laws, it's still a bit annoying. That Squires comic has proper irritated me, suggesting that fans should walk away from Newcastle United which has been a cornerstone of community in its 127 year (or 114 depending how you view things) existence is drivel; we as fans can't control who buys NUFC, Mike Ashley does. Yet it's the fans who are getting it in the neck. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Little Waster Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 Literally no one has stuck up for the Saudis Yes they have. Name them Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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