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Success at what cost?


Does it matter where the money comes from?  

438 members have voted

  1. 1. Does it matter where the money comes from?

    • Yes
    • No


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Guest godzilla

I'd be the first to twist the knife where the media's bullshit's converned, but the idea that sports journalists are only highlighting human rights abusers buying their way into football specifically because they have a bias against the random football club they've chosen to buy is frankly so embarrassing and conceited that I had to check I wasn't reading 4chan.

 

Even if such a ridiculous claim was true it's irrelevant and presents a distinction without a difference. Bias or no bias, the things they're highlighting are true.

 

Whilst accepting wages through their Saudi funded newspapers.

 

Again, I think this argument is irrelevant to the things being highlighted, but even by that logic, I work for a university that over time has been funded more and more by the Saudis and the Chinese, do we all need to go on the dole in order for our opinions and criticisms to have merit?

 

If your beliefs are so stringent against a regime that you feel was necessary to print publications, then I would be certainly be looking at other positions within another media not funded by that regime. Everyone has the right to their views and I would respect anyone who is unable to facilitate anything that goes against their view, but to accept money from the same regime you're putting publications against, seems a bit hypocritical to me. My opinion anyway, obviously others will disagree.

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I'd be the first to twist the knife where the media's bullshit's converned, but the idea that sports journalists are only highlighting human rights abusers buying their way into football specifically because they have a bias against the random football club they've chosen to buy is frankly so embarrassing and conceited that I had to check I wasn't reading 4chan.

 

Even if such a ridiculous claim was true it's irrelevant and presents a distinction without a difference. Bias or no bias, the things they're highlighting are true.

 

Whilst accepting wages through their Saudi funded newspapers.

 

Do they have a choice who owns their employer?  These people still need to provide a living to their families.

 

If your so adamantly against the regime then get another job/move to another publication not funded by the Saudis.

 

Aye, print journalism is really on an upward trajectory

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I think we have had a much better deal from refs this year with var although that’s a different topic. As a fanbase it’s really sad the stance we’re taking on this. Painting ourselves as victims when in reality we’re the ones who are about to  ruin football even more.

 

We aren't painting ourselves as victims as a fanbase. You will get some who will whinge about the media, but I would imagine there are plenty like me who think it will be nice to compete for stuff as a football club again. There's no victimhood in that. You've got Rafa as your avatar there, do you think he should refuse to come back because of the Saudi link?

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Sorry like, but if you're a journalist who also happens to be a Manu or Liverpool fan, and you suddenly see Newcastle Utd getting owners who can possibly blow you out of the water when it comes to transfer fees, you are going to feel threatened. It's just human nature. Let me be clear, that doesn't mean what they are saying is wrong, but it also doesn't mean they are saying it for the right reasons.

 

Don't talk about the people bombing childrens hospitals unless you don't support any football clubs, is essentially the road you're heading down because there's no team in Europe that won't fear us blowing them out of the water by that line of reasoning.

 

By all means talk about people bombing childrens hospitals if that is what you are passionate about, more power to you. But if you are a mackem who has suddenly grown a conscience and decided to give me a lecture about this newly discovered abomination, then I reserve the right to be sceptical.

 

But I'm not though, I'm quite literally one of your own who has the same concerns as these journalists. The things being highlighted don't hold any less merit because of who's saying it if it can be verified as true. Shooting the messenger and ignoring the substance is how dafties in America have ended up automatically defending war criminals and a corrupt media, solely because Trump's one of the people pointing it out.

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I'd be the first to twist the knife where the media's bullshit's converned, but the idea that sports journalists are only highlighting human rights abusers buying their way into football specifically because they have a bias against the random football club they've chosen to buy is frankly so embarrassing and conceited that I had to check I wasn't reading 4chan.

 

Even if such a ridiculous claim was true it's irrelevant and presents a distinction without a difference. Bias or no bias, the things they're highlighting are true.

 

Whilst accepting wages through their Saudi funded newspapers.

 

Again, I think this argument is irrelevant to the things being highlighted, but even by that logic, I work for a university that over time has been funded more and more by the Saudis and the Chinese, do we all need to go on the dole in order for our opinions and criticisms to have merit?

 

If your beliefs are so stringent against a regime that you feel was necessary to print publications, then I would be certainly be looking at other positions within another media not funded by that regime. Everyone has the right to their views and I would respect anyone who is unable to facilitate anything that goes against their view, but to accept money from the same regime you're putting publications against, seems a bit hypocritical to me. My opinion anyway, obviously others will disagree.

 

The meaning of hypocrisy in this context has broadened to the point of parody. Being critical of your employers and wanting things to improve used to be something unions worked to change, now anyone being critical of anything is an individual hypocrite unless they quit.

 

Presumably I should emigrate because I hate the Tories.

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Guest godzilla

I'd be the first to twist the knife where the media's bullshit's converned, but the idea that sports journalists are only highlighting human rights abusers buying their way into football specifically because they have a bias against the random football club they've chosen to buy is frankly so embarrassing and conceited that I had to check I wasn't reading 4chan.

 

Even if such a ridiculous claim was true it's irrelevant and presents a distinction without a difference. Bias or no bias, the things they're highlighting are true.

 

Whilst accepting wages through their Saudi funded newspapers.

 

Again, I think this argument is irrelevant to the things being highlighted, but even by that logic, I work for a university that over time has been funded more and more by the Saudis and the Chinese, do we all need to go on the dole in order for our opinions and criticisms to have merit?

 

If your beliefs are so stringent against a regime that you feel was necessary to print publications, then I would be certainly be looking at other positions within another media not funded by that regime. Everyone has the right to their views and I would respect anyone who is unable to facilitate anything that goes against their view, but to accept money from the same regime you're putting publications against, seems a bit hypocritical to me. My opinion anyway, obviously others will disagree.

 

The meaning of hypocrisy in this context has broadened to the point of parody. Being critical of your employers and wanting things to improve used to be something unions worked to change, now anyone being critical of anything is an individual hypocrite unless they quit.

 

Presumably I should emigrate because I hate the Tories.

 

That would be your right and choice, if you want to emigrate go for it.

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I'd be the first to twist the knife where the media's bullshit's converned, but the idea that sports journalists are only highlighting human rights abusers buying their way into football specifically because they have a bias against the random football club they've chosen to buy is frankly so embarrassing and conceited that I had to check I wasn't reading 4chan.

 

Even if such a ridiculous claim was true it's irrelevant and presents a distinction without a difference. Bias or no bias, the things they're highlighting are true.

 

Whilst accepting wages through their Saudi funded newspapers.

 

Again, I think this argument is irrelevant to the things being highlighted, but even by that logic, I work for a university that over time has been funded more and more by the Saudis and the Chinese, do we all need to go on the dole in order for our opinions and criticisms to have merit?

 

If your beliefs are so stringent against a regime that you feel was necessary to print publications, then I would be certainly be looking at other positions within another media not funded by that regime. Everyone has the right to their views and I would respect anyone who is unable to facilitate anything that goes against their view, but to accept money from the same regime you're putting publications against, seems a bit hypocritical to me. My opinion anyway, obviously others will disagree.

 

The meaning of hypocrisy in this context has broadened to the point of parody. Being critical of your employers and wanting things to improve used to be something unions worked to change, now anyone being critical of anything is an individual hypocrite unless they quit.

 

Presumably I should emigrate because I hate the Tories.

 

That would be your right and choice, if you want to emigrate go for it.

 

The point being, my right to criticise the Tories isn't dependant upon whether I'm a hypocrite (by your definition) for still paying them taxes or taking their benefits. Same as my right to criticise my employer isn't dependant upon whether I take their wages.

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I think we have had a much better deal from refs this year with var although that’s a different topic. As a fanbase it’s really sad the stance we’re taking on this. Painting ourselves as victims when in reality we’re the ones who are about to  ruin football even more.

 

We aren't painting ourselves as victims as a fanbase. You will get some who will whinge about the media, but I would imagine there are plenty like me who think it will be nice to compete for stuff as a football club again. There's no victimhood in that. You've got Rafa as your avatar there, do you think he should refuse to come back because of the Saudi link?

 

That is a totally reasonable point of view to take but believe me there are a LOT of our fans who have immediately gone to bat for the Saudis, many convinced that it's all an anti-NUFC conspiracy. The position being taken by some of our fans is actually the thing I'm struggling most with, not on here I should add, I think there's more sense here than on Twitter. I should stop reading it tbf.

 

I have infinitely more respect for "I don't care, I don't want to think about politics, I just want to support my team" than "You just hate NUFC and anyway, you can't complain about Saudi bombings because you enjoyed the smell of petrol once when walking past Esso".

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I think we have had a much better deal from refs this year with var although that’s a different topic. As a fanbase it’s really sad the stance we’re taking on this. Painting ourselves as victims when in reality we’re the ones who are about to  ruin football even more.

 

We aren't painting ourselves as victims as a fanbase. You will get some who will whinge about the media, but I would imagine there are plenty like me who think it will be nice to compete for stuff as a football club again. There's no victimhood in that. You've got Rafa as your avatar there, do you think he should refuse to come back because of the Saudi link?

 

That is a totally reasonable point of view to take but believe me there are a LOT of our fans who have immediately gone to bat for the Saudis, many convinced that it's all an anti-NUFC conspiracy. The position being taken by some of our fans is actually the thing I'm struggling most with, not on here I should add, I think there's more sense here than on Twitter. I should stop reading it tbf.

 

I have infinitely more respect for "I don't care, I don't want to think about politics, I just want to support my team" than "You just hate NUFC and anyway, you can't complain about Saudi bombings because you enjoyed the smell of petrol once when walking past Esso".

:thup:

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Guest The Little Waster

No one pays taxes to the Tories or takes benefits from them , thats the job of the state

 

And who sets the budget on how taxes and benefits are allocated?

 

Doesnt matter dont mix up the governing party with the State

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What I still don't get and I haven't seen a single answer for, is why the 'support the team not the regime' argument that's been used for the last 13 years has disappeared. If people felt they could support the club whilst not defending or excusing Mike Ashley, why do folk suddenly feel the need to excuse war criminals?

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I think we have had a much better deal from refs this year with var although that’s a different topic. As a fanbase it’s really sad the stance we’re taking on this. Painting ourselves as victims when in reality we’re the ones who are about to  ruin football even more.

 

We aren't painting ourselves as victims as a fanbase. You will get some who will whinge about the media, but I would imagine there are plenty like me who think it will be nice to compete for stuff as a football club again. There's no victimhood in that. You've got Rafa as your avatar there, do you think he should refuse to come back because of the Saudi link?

 

 

We are painting ourselves as victims as fanbase. Many are pretending, acting as though the media are picking on us specifically because it’s us and that they wouldn’t do it if it was say Liverpool or Manchester United, mimicking the behaviour seen by Man City fans under their ownership.  The Rafa question is a good one, I’m not gonna lie, I’d be pretty excited if he came back. Maybe it does implicate him, maybe the likes of Guardiola also need to be criticised for going to work for Man City. Brian Clough turned down the Brighton(?) job down on account of them being tories, so it wouldn’t be unheard of.

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No one pays taxes to the Tories or takes benefits from them , thats the job of the state

 

And who sets the budget on how taxes and benefits are allocated?

 

Doesnt matter dont mix up the governing party with the State

 

I imagine everyone except you knew exactly the point I was making. :thup:

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Fans hate referees, they hate journalists criticising them, they hate a lot of things. It's the stupidest part of the tribal nature of the sport.

 

:thup:

 

Surely the tribal nature of football is what partly makes it? If fanbases were in the rugby mould and displayed respect to each other and didn't hypocritically back their team to the hilt it would be terrifyingly dull and disgustingly Tory.

 

Having thought about, very briefly, I see little issue in supporting NUFC under the (potential) new ownership. For me support of your local team has never been linked to the ownership, albeit I did sack of a season ticket this year as it became abundantly clear we had lost the will to compete. Support is everything Sir Bobby outlined in that famous quote.

 

If we had the option would we rather have an owner who didn't engage in human rights abuse? Aye, but Newcastle fans' ability to choose who runs their club and to impact global politics is non-existent. If we sought to live a completely pure life we'd almost certainly manage to eradicate all pleasure from our lives.

 

Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in.

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Fans hate referees, they hate journalists criticising them, they hate a lot of things. It's the stupidest part of the tribal nature of the sport.

 

:thup:

 

Surely the tribal nature of football is what partly makes it? If fanbases were in the rugby mould and displayed respect to each other and didn't hypocritically back their team to the hilt it would be terrifyingly dull and disgustingly Tory.

 

Having thought about, very briefly, I see little issue in supporting NUFC under the (potential) new ownership. For me support of your local team has never been linked to the ownership, albeit I did sack of a season ticket this year as it became abundantly clear we had lost the will to compete. Support is everything Sir Bobby outlined in that famous quote.

 

If we had the option would we rather have an owner who didn't engage in human rights abuse? Aye, but Newcastle fans' ability to choose who runs their club and to impact global politics is non-existent. If we sought to live a completely pure life we'd almost certainly manage to eradicate all pleasure from our lives.

 

Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in.

 

What's disgustingly tory is saying you don't care about what the Saudi's do as long as its benefitting you, not saying you're saying that mind

 

Welcome back btw

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I think we have had a much better deal from refs this year with var although that’s a different topic. As a fanbase it’s really sad the stance we’re taking on this. Painting ourselves as victims when in reality we’re the ones who are about to  ruin football even more.

 

We aren't painting ourselves as victims as a fanbase. You will get some who will whinge about the media, but I would imagine there are plenty like me who think it will be nice to compete for stuff as a football club again. There's no victimhood in that. You've got Rafa as your avatar there, do you think he should refuse to come back because of the Saudi link?

 

That is a totally reasonable point of view to take but believe me there are a LOT of our fans who have immediately gone to bat for the Saudis, many convinced that it's all an anti-NUFC conspiracy. The position being taken by some of our fans is actually the thing I'm struggling most with, not on here I should add, I think there's more sense here than on Twitter. I should stop reading it tbf.

 

I have infinitely more respect for "I don't care, I don't want to think about politics, I just want to support my team" than "You just hate NUFC and anyway, you can't complain about Saudi bombings because you enjoyed the smell of petrol once when walking past Esso".

 

I think we are talking about different people mate. I said in another thread that because I stay away from facebook and twitter, I don't really come across the type who are wearing towels on their head or putting saudi flags up as their avatars. Maybe if I did, I would be in despair as well. This is precisely why I keep my distance from social media tbh, it would drive me nuts. I find myself even skimming the better newspapers these days, there's only so much I can take on tv and in print.

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Sorry like, but if you're a journalist who also happens to be a Manu or Liverpool fan, and you suddenly see Newcastle Utd getting owners who can possibly blow you out of the water when it comes to transfer fees, you are going to feel threatened. It's just human nature. Let me be clear, that doesn't mean what they are saying is wrong, but it also doesn't mean they are saying it for the right reasons.

 

Don't talk about the people bombing childrens hospitals unless you don't support any football clubs, is essentially the road you're heading down because there's no team in Europe that won't fear us blowing them out of the water by that line of reasoning.

 

By all means talk about people bombing childrens hospitals if that is what you are passionate about, more power to you. But if you are a mackem who has suddenly grown a conscience and decided to give me a lecture about this newly discovered abomination, then I reserve the right to be sceptical.

 

But I'm not though, I'm quite literally one of your own who has the same concerns as these journalists. The things being highlighted don't hold any less merit because of who's saying it if it can be verified as true. Shooting the messenger and ignoring the substance is how dafties in America have ended up automatically defending war criminals and a corrupt media, solely because Trump's one of the people pointing it out.

#

 

I wasn't literally talking about you, I was using the mackem example to make a point. :lol:

 

 

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