Takeover Thread - July 1st statement, Staveley letter to Tracey Crouch (and response) in OP

[gdm]

Think I’ve finally been worn down by all this. The prospect of this dragging on and on well in to next season is just depressing. 
think I’ll try stop thinking about it 

[Jackie Broon]

In my experience corruption is both far more prevalent and far less prevalent than people think.

I really don't think there's much of a culture of direct corruption in Britain, brown envelopes etc. but there's a huge culture of nepotism and bias towards people from the same background. 

[manorpark]

15 minutes ago, gdm said:

Think I’ve finally been worn down by all this. The prospect of this dragging on and on well in to next season is just depressing. 
think I’ll try stop thinking about it 

That is very unlikely, given all the currently known information.

It is not impossible (I suppose) but it really is VERY unlikely.

[veriaqa]

Up to this point, I was positive about the takeover.

But in the light of this new information, count me as negativist now.

I had high hope in British legal system for being clean and fair, but now all hope is lost.

[Jackie Broon]

15 minutes ago, veriaqa said:

Up to this point, I was positive about the takeover.

But in the light of this new information, count me as negativist now.

I had high hope in British legal system for being clean and fair, but now all hope is lost.

I was saying the opposite of that really.

I very much doubt there is any bribery within the British judiciary. There may be bias, whether conscious or not, towalds people from the same background, but that wouldn't really come into it in this case.

 

 

Edited May 22, 2021 by Jackie Broon

[Hhtoon]

21 minutes ago, veriaqa said:

Up to this point, I was positive about the takeover.

But in the light of this new information, count me as negativist now.

I had high hope in British legal system for being clean and fair, but now all hope is lost.

That's not new info really, just peoples opinion. The reality, as Jackie B has said, is likely different.

[Candi_Hills]

46 minutes ago, veriaqa said:

I bet.

But thing like this Corruption Perception Index and other things like that makes me, a naive brown man, think that European gov and legal system is super clean.

I'd say that there's more corruption at the bottom level in Asia (not sure about Indonesia). Paying people off is part of the culture. Parents will give teachers money to favour their child. Surgeons accept additional cash with promises of doing a good job. People slip each other packets of money for all sorts of reasons that we don't even think about here in Britain. Maybe, that's how they put the corruption index together.

If you're talking institutional corruption though, we'll take anybody on.

[nufcnick]

26 minutes ago, veriaqa said:

Up to this point, I was positive about the takeover.

But in the light of this new information, count me as negativist now.

I had high hope in British legal system for being clean and fair, but now all hope is lost.

 

14 minutes ago, Jackie Broon said:

I was saying the opposite of that really.

I very much doubt there is any bribery within the British judiciary. There may be bias, whether conscious or not, towalds people from the same background, but that wouldn't really come into it in this case.

Any QC thats on the arbitration panel no matter if he’s in the PL’s pocket or not would want to see the evidence of the anti competition action, as if he rules in favour of the PL and then the the club win the action, he would show himself to be untrustworthy and kill his career 

[UncleBingo]

33 minutes ago, Jackie Broon said:

In my experience corruption is both far more prevalent and far less prevalent than people think.

I really don't think there's much of a culture of direct corruption in Britain, brown envelopes etc. but there's a huge culture of nepotism and bias towards people from the same background. 

People who think there isn't a culture of corruption in Britain want to take a look what's been going on here in the last 5 or 6 years.

Brexit, Russian money, cash for questions, Arcuri, Mustique, flat refurbishments, Jenrick, billions on bogus untendered PPE contracts.......it's absolutely fucking rife, and Johnson is at the very heart of it.

[Darth Crooks]

Have to admit it does make me laugh when the exposure of cartels is mentioned in these tweets whilst citing Johnson’s support.

[Jackie Broon]

3 minutes ago, UncleBingo said:

People who think there isn't a culture of corruption in Britain want to take a look what's been going on here in the last 5 or 6 years.

Brexit, Russian money, cash for questions, Arcuri, Mustique, flat refurbishments, Jenrick, billions on bogus untendered PPE contracts.......it's absolutely fucking rife, and Johnson is at the very heart of it.

I agree, but it's very different to what people think, there is very little in the way of bribing decision-making officials. I am one of those, making multimillion pound value decisions, and I have never been offered a bribe in my career. But I think there is loads of doing 'favours' for mates etc. Which is much harder to prove than direct corruption.

[robbo_11]

6 minutes ago, UncleBingo said:

People who think there isn't a culture of corruption in Britain want to take a look what's been going on here in the last 5 or 6 years.

Brexit, Russian money, cash for questions, Arcuri, Mustique, flat refurbishments, Jenrick, billions on bogus untendered PPE contracts.......it's absolutely fucking rife, and Johnson is at the very heart of it.

Imagine going back to the days where you could just enjoy the football!

Even this morning news from ESPN Brazil indicated a former Brazilian FA lead is secretly controlling the CBF despite being banned by FIFA for corruption. With this comes further questions about why Edu from Arsenal continued to work with him despite this. This could all be harmless, but clubs are going to have to openly condemn it otherwise they are liable to be implicated.

The Saturday 3pm and 90 minutes seems long gone.

 

[Joey Linton]

5 minutes ago, Darth Crooks said:

Have to admit it does make me laugh when the exposure of cartels is mentioned in these tweets whilst citing Johnson’s support.

Aye but Johnson is our friend now, just like people believe Ashley is.

[Candi_Hills]

21 minutes ago, UncleBingo said:

People who think there isn't a culture of corruption in Britain want to take a look what's been going on here in the last 5 or 6 years.

Brexit, Russian money, cash for questions, Arcuri, Mustique, flat refurbishments, Jenrick, billions on bogus untendered PPE contracts.......it's absolutely fucking rife, and Johnson is at the very heart of it.

It's way bigger than Johnson and you'd probably have to go back to the pre-war period to find a labour government who didn't kick the can down the same road.

[Doctor Zaius]

1 hour ago, manorpark said:

That is very unlikely, given all the currently known information.

It is not impossible (I suppose) but it really is VERY unlikely.

Its already dragged on for a year and a half. Yet it's VERY unlikely for it to drag on into next season? I know there's a limit on responding to the CAT case but there'll be the actual process and then appeals no doubt. If this is all done and dusted by August I'll eat my hat. 

We've been talking about arbitration for months now and we're hearing its only just beginning in July. 

Disappointing that those involved seem a lot less sure about arbitration then before as well. 

[Jackie Broon]

4 minutes ago, Doctor Zaius said:

Its already dragged on for a year and a half. Yet it's VERY unlikely for it to drag on into next season? I know there's a limit on responding to the CAT case but there'll be the actual process and then appeals no doubt. If this is all done and dusted by August I'll eat my hat. 

We've been talking about arbitration for months now and we're hearing its only just beginning in July. 

Disappointing that those involved seem a lot less sure about arbitration then before as well. 

Arbitration is not only just beginning in July. The hearing, the final stage of the process, is happening in July. The hearing will only take about a week and there should be a decision within about a month of that. If the hearing is in early July we should have a decision before the start of the season.

[LV]

3 hours ago, veriaqa said:

Up to this point, I was positive about the takeover.

But in the light of this new information, count me as negativist now.

I had high hope in British legal system for being clean and fair, but now all hope is lost.

I think the state of corruption in the U.K. is being overplayed Veriaqa.

The legal system, while antiquated and inflexible at times, is pretty well respected throughout the legal world and the top judges very much pride themselves on being impartial. 

[LV]

2 hours ago, UncleBingo said:

People who think there isn't a culture of corruption in Britain want to take a look what's been going on here in the last 5 or 6 years.

Brexit, Russian money, cash for questions, Arcuri, Mustique, flat refurbishments, Jenrick, billions on bogus untendered PPE contracts.......it's absolutely fucking rife, and Johnson is at the very heart of it.

Well yeah, politics is a different case entirely. 

[InspectorCoarse]

13 minutes ago, LV said:

I think the state of corruption in the U.K. is being overplayed Veriaqa.

The legal system, while antiquated and inflexible at times, is pretty well respected throughout the legal world and the top judges very much pride themselves on being impartial. 

:  ) Lololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololol 

[LV]

1 hour ago, InspectorCoarse said:

:  ) Lololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololol 

?

[Dr Jinx]

I think if the legal challenge is about the conclusion that KSA should be a director and nothing else then we could be in some bother. The PL have a fairly straight forward series of links between MBS and PIF too, including evidence of influence over the PIF (that use of aircraft thing in the Khashoggi case for example)

The only way they are winning this case imho, is if they can prove that the outside influence from either Qatar (BeIn) or other PL clubs broke some rules that would override what I mentioned above regarding MBS/KSA

Sure there might be an anti-competition angle there, but enough to force the judge to rule everything in our favour?

I can easily see them coming out of this with a mild slap on the wrist and nothing to force them to change their position. Some of the arsehole journalists will call it a moral victory but ultimately it would achieve nothing.

[andyc35i]

16 hours ago, Dr Jinx said:

I think if the legal challenge is about the conclusion that KSA should be a director and nothing else then we could be in some bother. The PL have a fairly straight forward series of links between MBS and PIF too, including evidence of influence over the PIF (that use of aircraft thing in the Khashoggi case for example)

The only way they are winning this case imho, is if they can prove that the outside influence from either Qatar (BeIn) or other PL clubs broke some rules that would override what I mentioned above regarding MBS/KSA

Sure there might be an anti-competition angle there, but enough to force the judge to rule everything in our favour?

I can easily see them coming out of this with a mild slap on the wrist and nothing to force them to change their position. Some of the arsehole journalists will call it a moral victory but ultimately it would achieve nothing.

Seems plausible. I think it’s more complicated around the separation thing because the PL were meant to fail or pass owners that were put forward according to their own rules. Instead they seem to have said that ‘we don’t believe what you are saying so we will not do anything with the information’ 

[Jackie Broon]

4 minutes ago, andyc35i said:

Seems plausible. I think it’s more complicated around the separation thing because the PL were meant to fail or pass owners that were put forward according to their own rules. Instead they seem to have said that ‘we don’t believe what you are saying so we will not do anything with the information’ 

Exactly, I think even if the arbitration panel and the judge in the CAT case determine that the conclusion of the PL in relation to control was sound, there is possibly still a case there. The PL's actions in delaying and refusing to make a formal decision could potentially be shown to have been influenced in an anticompetitive way.

The club could probably argue that there was financial harm from that, e.g. there were other potential buyers but the consortium had exclusivity while the test was ongoing, by the time that ended the clubs value had fallen and those other buyers were no longer interested.

Ultimately I think the CAT case is mostly about putting huge pressure on the PL to settle the arbitration. If they go through with arbitration they're now facing not just potentially £100m+ costs but Masters and Hoffman possibly losing their ability to make a living as company directors. Whether the PL are confident of their case or not, there will always be some level of doubt and that is a lot to have hanging over them when they could just settle and make it go away.

[TRon]

2 hours ago, Jackie Broon said:

Exactly, I think even if the arbitration panel and the judge in the CAT case determine that the conclusion of the PL in relation to control was sound, there is possibly still a case there. The PL's actions in delaying and refusing to make a formal decision could potentially be shown to have been influenced in an anticompetitive way.

The club could probably argue that there was financial harm from that, e.g. there were other potential buyers but the consortium had exclusivity while the test was ongoing, by the time that ended the clubs value had fallen and those other buyers were no longer interested.

Ultimately I think the CAT case is mostly about putting huge pressure on the PL to settle the arbitration. If they go through with arbitration they're now facing not just potentially £100m+ costs but Masters and Hoffman possibly losing their ability to make a living as company directors. Whether the PL are confident of their case or not, there will always be some level of doubt and that is a lot to have hanging over them when they could just settle and make it go away.

And yet the PL with all this supposedly to lose, continue to stand firm and refuse to settle. 

[Ben]

2 minutes ago, TRon said:

And yet the PL with all this supposedly to lose, continue to stand firm and refuse to settle. 

I'm hoping this is just a continuation of their stalling tactic, hopefully it's all they have.