Takeover Thread - July 1st statement, Staveley letter to Tracey Crouch (and response) in OP

[Tisd09]

If this comes about, I think that will be me finished with top level football.  The league will be a none entity as a competition and it will pointless giving it any interest.

 

I am a bit young to remember the ins and outs and the birth of the PL but I wonder if a lot of fans felt like this at the time? Listening to SSN earlier on, I was thinking that if all this went ahead I would find it more difficult to be interested in the top level.

[TRon]

The Big Four/Six phrasing only got coined once we were safely away from the European spots. Wasn't a thing during the late 90's early 00's when we were regular european competitors.

 

I doubt we're very popular as a club, partially because we're so far north meaning more travelling when teams have to come here. The league would much rather Leeds or Sheffield was the most northerly point.

 

I think we are also seen as more of a potential threat to the big 6 than most other teams due to the combination of fanatical fanbase, one club city, and the geography which literally sees us stand apart. The Saudi bid for us must have shook the big boys to the core, hence the political pressure applied to the PL to refuse the takeover.

[TheInfiniteOdyssey]

Horrible bastards

 

[TRon]

 

 

Operation Avarice would surely leave all but ‘big six’ on life support

 

Project Big Picture, or Operation Avarice as it should be called, is so wretchedly, nakedly cynical, so obviously greed dressed up as munificence, that it deserves the widespread contempt it has immediately garnered. Everybody can see through what the “big six” are up to, wanting to run English football, ruining the dreams of those who aspire to the heights, diminishing the power of the FA further, and setting the scene for the European Super League. It is “the theft of hope”, as one Newcastle United fan eloquently but mournfully lamented. It is a short-term bandage that leaves a long-term wound that will never heal.

 

The need for a proper debate on the structure and finances of football is beyond question, and was urgent even before the poisonous wind of the pandemic blew through the English game. But discussions should always take place as a football family, as a collective, not a self-interested cabal led by Liverpool and Manchester United dictating terms in patronising fashion to the rest of the pyramid, including their supposedly less-celebrated colleagues in the Premier League. This closes down the dream factory of English football.

 

So shortly after FSG’s Liverpool had seven put past them by Aston Villa makes it a strange time to launch Mission Power Grab. At a time when the players of Liverpool, such as Trent Alexander-Arnold, Andrew Robertson and Jordan Henderson, and Manchester United, like Marcus Rashford, are doing so much for the community, the threat by their owners to control English football seems even more egregious.

 

 

Elements of the proposal are good — helping out the EFL with £250 million and FA with £100 million, capping away tickets at £20, addressing the madness of parachute payments and encouraging sustainability is to be welcomed throughout the EFL — but close inspection of the proposal reveals immediate and manifold concerns.

 

It seems strange the elite have recently been pleading poverty, some flirting with furloughing staff, and yet have now found all this ready cash, ready for transferring down-table. What the “big six” offer the EFL is effectively what they gave to agents last year. And it’s not even only their money, and depending on their broadcast negotiating power they will effectively be saving £200 million of the £250 million long-term by losing two clubs.

 

It needs saying again that Richard Scudamore’s greatest gift, beyond the former Premier League executive chairman’s mastery of broadcast negotiations, was to keep all 20 clubs pointed in the same direction. Not now. This plan points the Premier League towards civil war.

 

A proper plan would be to acknowledge how much of their talent is honed in the EFL, and how much it is in their self-interest to help the pyramid. There is enough broadcast money at the top level to assist the weaker parts of English football, and they are stronger together, a 92, unique throughout the world.

 

If the elite clubs are concerned about their own profits, maybe they could temper the wages they lavish on stars, the substantial transfer fees they pay, the riches they give to agents. They could work more subtly with the government, persuade the exchequer to contribute to the lower leagues.

 

It is particularly “disappointing”, to borrow the word of an outraged Premier League, that the EFL’s chairman, Rick Parry, has fallen into cahoots with the Glazers, FSG and those whose creed is greed. Parry, formerly chief executive of Liverpool, suddenly appears a Trojan Horse. Some of his 72 clubs will doubtless support the proposals, such is their despair which the “big six” are preying on. “Through this proposed restructuring we aim to strengthen those who need it most at a time when they need it most,” Parry says. “This is a blueprint for the future of English football and for everyone who cherishes it.”

 

Nonsense. This leaves English football being run from Boston and the Everglades. It would leave the rich getting richer, leaving the Premier League under a rule of six, in control of broadcast deals, inevitably maximising their return, running the league, overruling the FA, even deciding who should come into other clubs. It adds some credence to all those stories that certain clubs intervened to stop the Saudi takeover of Newcastle, not because they objected to human rights abuses but because they feared a challenge to their attempted hegemony.

 

These plans limit the likes of pesky upstarts who dare take on the established order, a Leicester City pushing for the title, an Aston Villa rebuilding. It restricts the ambitions of those in mid-table, and tells the promoted to know their place. They are an affront to sporting integrity.

 

Reducing the number of clubs in the Premier League to 18 frees up more dates for the European Super League which is, partly, what this is all about, and everyone understands the damage that would do to English football. Those few supporting Parry do not see the real big picture.

 

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/sport/operation-avarice-would-surely-leave-all-but-big-six-on-life-support-dct38dtcb

 

 

 

 

Henry Winter man. Not only is he one of the best football writers in the game, but he absolutely loves us.

 

[nufcjb]

The audacity of two of the 'Big Six' to come out with this proposal after losing their last game 2-7 and 1-6. Absolute cunts

[Guest neesy111]

Sooner football at the top crashes and burns the better.  It's disgusting.

[Tisd09]

Rochdale chairman on SSN just now, stating that obviously that clubs like his need investment but also acknowledges that it could/will mean that the rich will get rich and moving through the divisions like Bournemouth would be more and more difficult.

 

Apparently West Ham are against the proposals despite them being one of the 9?? They probably realise that even though they are part of the 9 that the "big 6" will have them over a barrel either way.

[wormy]

Perfect write up by Winter, that.

[morpeth mag]

The audacity of two of the 'Big Six' to come out with this proposal after losing their last game 2-7 and 1-6. Absolute cunts

I think the 14 clubs in the EPL, but not the Six, should propose reducing the league from 20 to 18. Then vote Liverpool and Man Yoo as those two clubs.

[Yorkie]

Perfect write up by Winter, that.

 

Yeah, nailed it. Important that someone like him came out and did so. There needs to be outright opposition from anyone who doesn't have a meaningful stake in the proposal itself. The broadcasters will push whatever agenda is more lucrative, meaning we'll get little to no help there (probably the opposite), so those with the gift of a far-reaching voice; journalists and football academics like Winter; need to fight the corner from the position he has, thankfully, adopted.

[Miggys First Goal]

Love me a bit of Winter.

[buzz]

i wonder if down the line they want franchises and scrapping of relegation/promotion or limiting it to 1 team a aseason.

 

Hard to see that not eventually happening, seems inevitable with the Yanks in control.

[NG32]

If this comes about, I think that will be me finished with top level football.  The league will be a none entity as a competition and it will pointless giving it any interest.

 

I am a bit young to remember the ins and outs and the birth of the PL but I wonder if a lot of fans felt like this at the time? Listening to SSN earlier on, I was thinking that if all this went ahead I would find it more difficult to be interested in the top level.

 

I do seem to remember a few grumblings along the lines of the big clubs wanting more money but at least it was shared revenue.  What Man Utd and Liverpool are proposing is a different beast.

 

 

[LV]

Absolutely disgusting this. The sheer brass neck of it..

[NG32]

 

 

Operation Avarice would surely leave all but ‘big six’ on life support

 

Project Big Picture, or Operation Avarice as it should be called, is so wretchedly, nakedly cynical, so obviously greed dressed up as munificence, that it deserves the widespread contempt it has immediately garnered. Everybody can see through what the “big six” are up to, wanting to run English football, ruining the dreams of those who aspire to the heights, diminishing the power of the FA further, and setting the scene for the European Super League. It is “the theft of hope”, as one Newcastle United fan eloquently but mournfully lamented. It is a short-term bandage that leaves a long-term wound that will never heal.

 

The need for a proper debate on the structure and finances of football is beyond question, and was urgent even before the poisonous wind of the pandemic blew through the English game. But discussions should always take place as a football family, as a collective, not a self-interested cabal led by Liverpool and Manchester United dictating terms in patronising fashion to the rest of the pyramid, including their supposedly less-celebrated colleagues in the Premier League. This closes down the dream factory of English football.

 

So shortly after FSG’s Liverpool had seven put past them by Aston Villa makes it a strange time to launch Mission Power Grab. At a time when the players of Liverpool, such as Trent Alexander-Arnold, Andrew Robertson and Jordan Henderson, and Manchester United, like Marcus Rashford, are doing so much for the community, the threat by their owners to control English football seems even more egregious.

 

 

Elements of the proposal are good — helping out the EFL with £250 million and FA with £100 million, capping away tickets at £20, addressing the madness of parachute payments and encouraging sustainability is to be welcomed throughout the EFL — but close inspection of the proposal reveals immediate and manifold concerns.

 

It seems strange the elite have recently been pleading poverty, some flirting with furloughing staff, and yet have now found all this ready cash, ready for transferring down-table. What the “big six” offer the EFL is effectively what they gave to agents last year. And it’s not even only their money, and depending on their broadcast negotiating power they will effectively be saving £200 million of the £250 million long-term by losing two clubs.

 

It needs saying again that Richard Scudamore’s greatest gift, beyond the former Premier League executive chairman’s mastery of broadcast negotiations, was to keep all 20 clubs pointed in the same direction. Not now. This plan points the Premier League towards civil war.

 

A proper plan would be to acknowledge how much of their talent is honed in the EFL, and how much it is in their self-interest to help the pyramid. There is enough broadcast money at the top level to assist the weaker parts of English football, and they are stronger together, a 92, unique throughout the world.

 

If the elite clubs are concerned about their own profits, maybe they could temper the wages they lavish on stars, the substantial transfer fees they pay, the riches they give to agents. They could work more subtly with the government, persuade the exchequer to contribute to the lower leagues.

 

It is particularly “disappointing”, to borrow the word of an outraged Premier League, that the EFL’s chairman, Rick Parry, has fallen into cahoots with the Glazers, FSG and those whose creed is greed. Parry, formerly chief executive of Liverpool, suddenly appears a Trojan Horse. Some of his 72 clubs will doubtless support the proposals, such is their despair which the “big six” are preying on. “Through this proposed restructuring we aim to strengthen those who need it most at a time when they need it most,” Parry says. “This is a blueprint for the future of English football and for everyone who cherishes it.”

 

Nonsense. This leaves English football being run from Boston and the Everglades. It would leave the rich getting richer, leaving the Premier League under a rule of six, in control of broadcast deals, inevitably maximising their return, running the league, overruling the FA, even deciding who should come into other clubs. It adds some credence to all those stories that certain clubs intervened to stop the Saudi takeover of Newcastle, not because they objected to human rights abuses but because they feared a challenge to their attempted hegemony.

 

These plans limit the likes of pesky upstarts who dare take on the established order, a Leicester City pushing for the title, an Aston Villa rebuilding. It restricts the ambitions of those in mid-table, and tells the promoted to know their place. They are an affront to sporting integrity.

 

Reducing the number of clubs in the Premier League to 18 frees up more dates for the European Super League which is, partly, what this is all about, and everyone understands the damage that would do to English football. Those few supporting Parry do not see the real big picture.

 

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/sport/operation-avarice-would-surely-leave-all-but-big-six-on-life-support-dct38dtcb

 

 

 

 

Henry Winter man. Not only is he one of the best football writers in the game, but he absolutely loves us.

 

 

Nails it.

 

 

[TheInfiniteOdyssey]

Rochdale chairman on SSN just now, stating that obviously that clubs like his need investment but also acknowledges that it could/will mean that the rich will get rich and moving through the divisions like Bournemouth would be more and more difficult.

 

Apparently West Ham are against the proposals despite them being one of the 9?? They probably realise that even though they are part of the 9 that the "big 6" will have them over a barrel either way.

 

It literally doesn't matter if clubs like Everton, Southampton or West Ham were brought into the fold of decision-making, merely a PR stunt

 

Because like you say, the top 6 have the ultimate autonomy and under this blueprint, they only need 6 votes to pass

 

The clubs can see through it

[TK-421]

Talking of legal deadlines how is Mandy's case against Barclays going? Anyone heard?

 

Good question. It was due to resume in early October but there’s been zero movement.

 

Hopefully both sets of legal teams have decided to come to a settlement. That in itself could take weeks/months to be agreed?

I'm sure I read it was delayed due to covid so it's now expected to be finished around November/December this year.

 

 

According to an article in the Daily Mail, she's cut her claim to a maximum of £771m

 

[NG32]

Rochdale chairman on SSN just now, stating that obviously that clubs like his need investment but also acknowledges that it could/will mean that the rich will get rich and moving through the divisions like Bournemouth would be more and more difficult.

 

Apparently West Ham are against the proposals despite them being one of the 9?? They probably realise that even though they are part of the 9 that the "big 6" will have them over a barrel either way.

 

It literally doesn't matter if clubs like Everton, Southampton or West Ham were brought into the fold of decision-making, merely a PR stunt

 

Because like you say, the top 6 have the ultimate autonomy and under this blueprint, they only need 6 votes to pass

 

The clubs can see through it

 

West Ham would have no say whatsoever, like the YTS lad in a meeting trying to have his say. 

[OCK]

[NG32]

"AOB"

 

"I think we should have more biscuits"

 

"Shut up Westy"

[Stifler]

Boris has condemned it.

[James]

88% of fans disagree with the voting structure on the BBC

[Interpolic]

 

 

The loan proposals also concern me, surely that will lead to more stockpiling of young talent??

 

That's exactly why they've proposed it, they think all of the other clubs should effectively be their feeder clubs.

[LFEE]

Most American owners are flabbergasted by the concept that they can buy a club and the revenues are dependent on immediate and regular high performance to qualify for the Europe - while a particularly bad season could see them relegated and ejected entirely from the gravytrain. There is no security or stability in European sport which is terrible for an investor from a background of US sport.

 

In the US if you buy/set up a franchise that's you secure in the league for as long as you want. Stability for a business model and no risk. No need to finish high and qualify for continental competitions every year. Indeed you can throw a season altogether to get a better draft pick to build for a long-term team/brand.

 

This is quite clearly a move driven in a significant part by American ownership pushing for a model which allows more power for big clubs to and ensures stability. This solidifies their investment. It's not the only reason but the gradual takeover by US capitalists is clearly a significant part of this shift.

 

What is that based on, not calling you out, but I haven't seen it. I know they most likely prefer the american model with the draft picks, but I don't see this link. Stability for Liverpool/Man United? They aren't in danger of relegation any time soon. FWIW I would actually like a draft here, not that logistically its possbile really. I just see it as typical big club power grab.

 

It's not an American thing anymore. If you look at new sports, f.ex E-sports, all the big teams around the world wants a franchise style league to protect their own brand. That's the route they've gone at Riot games and Blizzard, and all the teams have fought for a similar arrangement in CS:GO the last couple of years as well, only partly managing to do so since Valve is not as hands on with the e-sports side of the game as other game developers. If football was a newer sport, this is definitely the way it would have gone too imo, sadly.

 

Disagree. It’s definitely an American thing. They’ve never liked relegation and their aim is to remove it. This is just the next safest bet to protect their “franchises” until they gain further control. If I’ve been lead to believe correctly approval of opposition ownership is also widespread in American sport too.

 

Here’s Parry on TalkSport defending the idea for those who missed it. It’s 4mins in.

 

https://talksport.com/radio/listen-again/1602493200/1602495000/

[Consortium of one]

Most American owners are flabbergasted by the concept that they can buy a club and the revenues are dependent on immediate and regular high performance to qualify for the Europe - while a particularly bad season could see them relegated and ejected entirely from the gravytrain. There is no security or stability in European sport which is terrible for an investor from a background of US sport.

 

In the US if you buy/set up a franchise that's you secure in the league for as long as you want. Stability for a business model and no risk. No need to finish high and qualify for continental competitions every year. Indeed you can throw a season altogether to get a better draft pick to build for a long-term team/brand.

 

This is quite clearly a move driven in a significant part by American ownership pushing for a model which allows more power for big clubs to and ensures stability. This solidifies their investment. It's not the only reason but the gradual takeover by US capitalists is clearly a significant part of this shift.

 

What is that based on, not calling you out, but I haven't seen it. I know they most likely prefer the american model with the draft picks, but I don't see this link. Stability for Liverpool/Man United? They aren't in danger of relegation any time soon. FWIW I would actually like a draft here, not that logistically its possbile really. I just see it as typical big club power grab.

 

It's not an American thing anymore. If you look at new sports, f.ex E-sports, all the big teams around the world wants a franchise style league to protect their own brand. That's the route they've gone at Riot games and Blizzard, and all the teams have fought for a similar arrangement in CS:GO the last couple of years as well, only partly managing to do so since Valve is not as hands on with the e-sports side of the game as other game developers. If football was a newer sport, this is definitely the way it would have gone too imo, sadly.

 

Disagree. It’s definitely an American thing. They’ve never liked relegation and their aim is to remove it. This is just the next safest bet to protect their “franchises” until they gain further control. If I’ve been lead to believe correctly approval of opposition ownership is also widespread in American sport too.

 

Here’s Parry on TalkSport defending the idea for those who missed it. It’s 4mins in.

 

https://talksport.com/radio/listen-again/1602493200/1602495000/

 

Correct.  I'm assuming there is more American money standing on the sideline waiting to get into the game.  This would pave the way for them.  For all the bluster about free markets and over regulation American BIG business wants risk free investment by self regulation.