Minhosa Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 Disclaimer: I've got no desire to get into a 'will it/won't it' happen with the various cheerleaders from each side. But on the wider subject, hear me out.........does this latest clusterfuck of form/ineptitude actually work in Ashleys favour in respect of the legal position? What I mean is, if he is in the process of suing the PL for the deal falling through because of their systemic failure to fairly apply the O&D Test, does the impending loss of PL status and thus increasing his loss due to their failures actually indirectly hurry them up to get to a resolution on the Saudi deal? If the PL can see the impending relegation and the compensation demand therefore going up in the magnitude of eight figures, surely they rush to approve the deal and have Ashley agree to waive any potential liabilities if we still drop? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
UpTheToon Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 They don't have a leg to stand on to try and make any arguments that blame the current position of the team on the PL impacting a takeover. It shouldn't stop the day to day running of the club. Also, if you wanted to get more analytical about it, Ashley has a history of this exact situation of shite ownership leading to relegation before the failed PIF takeover. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdm Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 Disclaimer: I've got no desire to get into a 'will it/won't it' happen with the various cheerleaders from each side. But on the wider subject, hear me out.........does this latest clusterfuck of form/ineptitude actually work in Ashleys favour in respect of the legal position? What I mean is, if he is in the process of suing the PL for the deal falling through because of their systemic failure to fairly apply the O&D Test, does the impending loss of PL status and thus increasing his loss due to their failures actually indirectly hurry them up to get to a resolution on the Saudi deal? If the PL can see the impending relegation and the compensation demand therefore going up in the magnitude of eight figures, surely they rush to approve the deal and have Ashley agree to waive any potential liabilities if we still drop? I made a similar point after Sheffield United game and got shot down Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robster Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 Disclaimer: I've got no desire to get into a 'will it/won't it' happen with the various cheerleaders from each side. But on the wider subject, hear me out.........does this latest clusterfuck of form/ineptitude actually work in Ashleys favour in respect of the legal position? What I mean is, if he is in the process of suing the PL for the deal falling through because of their systemic failure to fairly apply the O&D Test, does the impending loss of PL status and thus increasing his loss due to their failures actually indirectly hurry them up to get to a resolution on the Saudi deal? If the PL can see the impending relegation and the compensation demand therefore going up in the magnitude of eight figures, surely they rush to approve the deal and have Ashley agree to waive any potential liabilities if we still drop? I'd have to say no because we are only in the current position due to Steve Bruce. It's not the PL's fault that Ashley chose to allow Rafa Benitez to leave, and chose to replace him with one of the worst managers in PL history. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minhosa Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 They don't have a leg to stand on to try and make any arguments that blame the current position of the team on the PL impacting a takeover. It shouldn't stop the day to day running of the club. Also, if you wanted to get more analytical about it, Ashley has a history of this exact situation of shite ownership leading to relegation before the failed PIF takeover. 1) If it can be proven the O&D Test was not applied in line with their own rules and regulations it's a very easy argument to make that Ashley has suffered a loss at their hands. 2) If it can be proven that loss was incurred because of the PL's failure then he will be entitled to compensation. 3) The amount of compensation would be directly in line with the impacts of the breach and Ashleys side would argue the PL's failure put him in a financially worse position and that, had the rules been correctly applied, he'd have been long gone and could not therefore have incurred said losses. I don't think it's beyond the realms of possiblity that this impending doom plays into Ashleys hands from a strictly legal perspective. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minhosa Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 Disclaimer: I've got no desire to get into a 'will it/won't it' happen with the various cheerleaders from each side. But on the wider subject, hear me out.........does this latest clusterfuck of form/ineptitude actually work in Ashleys favour in respect of the legal position? What I mean is, if he is in the process of suing the PL for the deal falling through because of their systemic failure to fairly apply the O&D Test, does the impending loss of PL status and thus increasing his loss due to their failures actually indirectly hurry them up to get to a resolution on the Saudi deal? If the PL can see the impending relegation and the compensation demand therefore going up in the magnitude of eight figures, surely they rush to approve the deal and have Ashley agree to waive any potential liabilities if we still drop? I'd have to say no because we are only in the current position due to Steve Bruce. It's not the PL's fault that Ashley chose to allow Rafa Benitez to leave, and chose to replace him with one of the worst managers in PL history. Correct but his argument is that he wouldn't have been here to oversee the failure if they'd correctly applied their own rules. If he can prove they didn't then the Rafa/Bruce argument is irrelevant I think. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty66 Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 There's no way you can sue the PL for our current league position. The club is still financially sound during a transfer window. It has absolutely nothing to do with the PL and would be laughed out of court. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
UpTheToon Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 They don't have a leg to stand on to try and make any arguments that blame the current position of the team on the PL impacting a takeover. It shouldn't stop the day to day running of the club. Also, if you wanted to get more analytical about it, Ashley has a history of this exact situation of shite ownership leading to relegation before the failed PIF takeover. 1) If it can be proven the O&D Test was not applied in line with their own rules and regulations it's a very easy argument to make that Ashley has suffered a loss at their hands. 2) If it can be proven that loss was incurred because of the PL's failure then he will be entitled to compensation. 3) The amount of compensation would be directly in line with the impacts of the breach and Ashleys side would argue the PL's failure put him in a financially worse position and that, had the rules been correctly applied, he'd have been long gone and could not therefore have incurred said losses. I don't think it's beyond the realms of possiblity that this impending doom plays into Ashleys hands from a strictly legal perspective. I understand the argument but don't agree, the failed takeover doesn't stop him running the club. If I was trying to sell a car and someone wrongly prevented that sale you could try and claim compensation. If you then stopped servicing the car and it subsequently broke down you can't go back and blame that person. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minhosa Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 There's no way you can sue the PL for our current league position. The club is still financially sound during a transfer window. It has absolutely nothing to do with the PL and would be laughed out of court. He wouldn't be suing them for the 'current league position', he'd be suing them for additional loss in the event of a relegation whilst he was the custodian of a club that he should have been allowed to sell last summer. I think that would be the crux of the argument. If Ashley cannot prove the PL failed in their duty to fairly apply the O&D test then agreed BUT if he can then I think he's fair game to make the allegation their failure has caused him fiduciary pain. Anyway, just a thought that it may encourage the PL to move quickly and get this one off the table asap if further financial recourse is hanging over them particularly bearing in mind Ashley has more wealth than them as an organisation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minhosa Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 They don't have a leg to stand on to try and make any arguments that blame the current position of the team on the PL impacting a takeover. It shouldn't stop the day to day running of the club. Also, if you wanted to get more analytical about it, Ashley has a history of this exact situation of shite ownership leading to relegation before the failed PIF takeover. 1) If it can be proven the O&D Test was not applied in line with their own rules and regulations it's a very easy argument to make that Ashley has suffered a loss at their hands. 2) If it can be proven that loss was incurred because of the PL's failure then he will be entitled to compensation. 3) The amount of compensation would be directly in line with the impacts of the breach and Ashleys side would argue the PL's failure put him in a financially worse position and that, had the rules been correctly applied, he'd have been long gone and could not therefore have incurred said losses. I don't think it's beyond the realms of possiblity that this impending doom plays into Ashleys hands from a strictly legal perspective. I understand the argument but don't agree, the failed takeover doesn't stop him running the club. If I was trying to sell a car and someone wrongly prevented that sale you could try and claim compensation. If you then stopped servicing the car and it subsequently broke down you can't go back and blame that person. Unless the person preventing you selling that car is, in effect, a regulator I'm not sure the analogy works but it was just a thought anyway. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
UpTheToon Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 They don't have a leg to stand on to try and make any arguments that blame the current position of the team on the PL impacting a takeover. It shouldn't stop the day to day running of the club. Also, if you wanted to get more analytical about it, Ashley has a history of this exact situation of shite ownership leading to relegation before the failed PIF takeover. 1) If it can be proven the O&D Test was not applied in line with their own rules and regulations it's a very easy argument to make that Ashley has suffered a loss at their hands. 2) If it can be proven that loss was incurred because of the PL's failure then he will be entitled to compensation. 3) The amount of compensation would be directly in line with the impacts of the breach and Ashleys side would argue the PL's failure put him in a financially worse position and that, had the rules been correctly applied, he'd have been long gone and could not therefore have incurred said losses. I don't think it's beyond the realms of possiblity that this impending doom plays into Ashleys hands from a strictly legal perspective. I understand the argument but don't agree, the failed takeover doesn't stop him running the club. If I was trying to sell a car and someone wrongly prevented that sale you could try and claim compensation. If you then stopped servicing the car and it subsequently broke down you can't go back and blame that person. Unless the person preventing you selling that car is, in effect, a regulator I'm not sure the analogy works but it was just a thought anyway. It does touch upon the larger question, what is Ashley trying to get out of the current legal channels and what are the possible outcomes. Kennedy and the like say it's to clear the way for a takeover but would anyone be surprised if he was just trying to get compensation... Doesn't tie in with reports that PIF are the only option he'll consider I suppose. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdm Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 I agree the only ones to blame for this mess is Ashley & Bruce but it all leaves the club now in a tricky position. Until this takeover & legal issues are sorted who is going to take a job for potentially a couple of weeks or a couple of months knowing the buyers if successful will want their own man. Imo Ashley will gamble that it’s all sorted by February and let the potential new owners sort out the manager situation Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty66 Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 They don't have a leg to stand on to try and make any arguments that blame the current position of the team on the PL impacting a takeover. It shouldn't stop the day to day running of the club. Also, if you wanted to get more analytical about it, Ashley has a history of this exact situation of shite ownership leading to relegation before the failed PIF takeover. 1) If it can be proven the O&D Test was not applied in line with their own rules and regulations it's a very easy argument to make that Ashley has suffered a loss at their hands. 2) If it can be proven that loss was incurred because of the PL's failure then he will be entitled to compensation. 3) The amount of compensation would be directly in line with the impacts of the breach and Ashleys side would argue the PL's failure put him in a financially worse position and that, had the rules been correctly applied, he'd have been long gone and could not therefore have incurred said losses. I don't think it's beyond the realms of possiblity that this impending doom plays into Ashleys hands from a strictly legal perspective. I understand the argument but don't agree, the failed takeover doesn't stop him running the club. If I was trying to sell a car and someone wrongly prevented that sale you could try and claim compensation. If you then stopped servicing the car and it subsequently broke down you can't go back and blame that person. Unless the person preventing you selling that car is, in effect, a regulator I'm not sure the analogy works but it was just a thought anyway. It does touch upon the larger question, what is Ashley trying to get out of the current legal channels and what are the possible outcomes. Kennedy and the like say it's to clear the way for a takeover but would anyone be surprised if he was just trying to get compensation... Doesn't tie in with reports that PIF are the only option he'll consider I suppose. If he was just trying to get compensation I don't think he would have hired the specialist QC's that he has. Also there is a possibility he would have done this from himself not through the club. He wants the PL to be proven that the test wasn't applied correctly, because he knows that if it was, then there would be no way they can stop the takeover. Most likely outcome is either settled before arbitration, or we win the arbitration and pass the ODT. But unfortunately that is no way set in stone. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
UncleBingo Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 I agree the only ones to blame for this mess is Ashley & Bruce but it all leaves the club now in a tricky position. Until this takeover & legal issues are sorted who is going to take a job for potentially a couple of weeks or a couple of months knowing the buyers if successful will want their own man. Imo Ashley will gamble that it’s all sorted by February and let the potential new owners sort out the manager situation There'll be any number of Brexity British deadbeats lining up for the chance of another 6 months work & healthy payoff. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ7 Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 I agree the only ones to blame for this mess is Ashley & Bruce but it all leaves the club now in a tricky position. Until this takeover & legal issues are sorted who is going to take a job for potentially a couple of weeks or a couple of months knowing the buyers if successful will want their own man. Imo Ashley will gamble that it’s all sorted by February and let the potential new owners sort out the manager situation If there actually is a good chance of the takeover going through, you'd like to think they'll have some sort of influence. Eddie Howe maybe the type of manager who could come in and be given some time under a new owner. It sounded like they had firm plans a year ago, but if they're still interested in buying us now you'd expect it to be more up in the air. It's still a Premier League job though so I don't think we'd be short of takers if Ashley bothered to make a effort. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sho Time Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 To Minhosa's point and the thoughts of UpTheToon; Ashley should have sold the club and been long gone some time ago (if the courts ruled the PL had no legal right to delay the deal, cause the Saudi's to walk etc.) and he has incurred additional losses as a result, he is entitled to more compensation. The reason behind that being that the court ruling would effectively say he should have been long gone with no risk prior to the event of relegation. Whether he did or didn't spend money is irrelevant. He should not have been in that position of risk. So from a strictly legal perspective, it is absolutely a valid argument and one which should we enter the literal worst case scenario for NUFC (relegation, Saudi's walk, Ashley stays) but Ashley wins the court case, then he stands to benefit (not fully) as he's just missed a £300m profit and instead lost £90m+. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toonjam88 Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 Surely they have to now fail the test? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LV Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 The pre- test is ‘Are they a member of the Big Six? If so, Pass.’ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slim Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Consortium of one Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 I just want a verifiable glimmer of hope. Please. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NE27 Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 I just want a verifiable glimmer of hope. Please. You can have "buyers are confident" and you will bloody well like it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottishMagpie Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 I just want a verifiable glimmer of hope. Please. You can have "buyers are confident" and you will bloody well like it. And you're not leaving the table till you've eaten all your cabbage! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paully Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teasy Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 Do we have any direct quotes saying that they won't buy if we get relegated? The money it takes to get back up is what Liverpool would spend on a goalie. From PIFs perspective, surely it'd be a minor inconvenience. Quicker to just buy Leeds. Except Leeds don't offer the same package, nowhere near. Not this year or any other year. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty66 Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 Remember that Harry bloke that said it's definitely happening. This is his update "if" it is true, then the consortium are doing everything they possibly can to get it done. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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