Takeover Thread - July 1st statement, Staveley letter to Tracey Crouch (and response) in OP

[Guest HTT II]

7 minutes ago, Thumbheed said:

Financially it obviously makes perfect sense to purchase us over Man Utd, but you have to offset this with what they're trying to achieve with Vision2030 which appears to be about diversifying their economy as well as reestablishing their image on the world stage. 

Sadly, you only need to look at this very board to see how easily their less savoury antics are forgotten at the slightest hint of investment in a football club, now multiply that by the substantially larger Man U fanbase. 

That's where the real value is. 

 

There is zero value to SA owning Man Utd over NUFC. You need to understand the culture. My good SA friend would rather spend the same money building his own house then buying a ready made house. He’d rather buy a new car than a second hand one. He’d rather build his own business than buy into a business. This is more than about sport washing, PR, money, it’s about showcasing SA as the go to investment vehicle for any start up, country, region, business that wants to build organically and develop long term in ways money can’t just buy which of so, well, they could by the whole of football if they wanted, the whole the media, make every negative word written about them on archive obsolete. NUFC is a big deal for them. I’d fear them going after Leeds rather than us than Man Utd. They want NUFC to transform us into something bigger, better, more successful and more valuable than Man Utd in sport, in business, in investment and as an asset. But img shares in Tesla to the, is like me investing 1k in Bitcoin, it’s just an investment. Buying NUFC is more than that, it’s a vision, a project, a grandstand show piece to an empire like the Coliseum in Rom and Gladiator games. 

 

 

Edited May 4, 2021 by HTT II

[Stifler]

Buying Man Utd would be a never ending expense for them.

They could buy them for £4bn, then again I have always believed that they could buy them for £4bn if they wanted them. They would then have to improve them, and how do you do that?

Firsy of all you are going to need to overhaul the squad, and that includes at least 1 marquee signing, and a marquee signing for Man Utd really is Mbappe, Neymar, or Messi. That is costing you £300m. You then would need to put in between another £300m-£600m to give them a squad that could immediately compete with Man City.

From then on you need to rebuild Old Trafford, you couldn’t move them away from Old Trafford because it’s too famous. To build a stadium of the level that they need you are looking at something likes Spur’s stadium, with a capacity of at least 90k. You would need to have facilities such as 100+ corporate boxes (like some NFL clubs have), not only a players tunnel that fans can get an upfront display off, lm but you would need to out do Spurs and Man City. You are talking about stupid things like a players bus tunnel that fans can go too. The facilities need to be out of this world.

Something people overlook is that Man City are owned by UAE royal family, close friends of the Saudi royal family. It’s ok for them both to get involved in football, and both on the same league, but to be involved in each other’s biggest rivals and share a city together. I don’t think that would fly. On top of this the Man City owners have already got the investment in Manchester tied up. There is no development left in the city centre that they aren’t involved in. The Saudi royal family are going to do similar and having Manchester locked out for them is not going to be something they will be interested in.

It was widely believed that PIF had the opportunity to buy Man Utd a whole back and thought the price was too much, quite possibly for the reasons I have said. They have also been priced out at Liverpool. They did though have a deal lined up for Spurs, but Spurs pulled out of it. One of the reasons why I think they would have went for Spurs is that they could have came in to a new stadium being recently built and completed the transformation by investing in the squad. At Liverpool they have the opportunity to develop Anfield. I honestly think that if they were to turn their opportunity to a top 6 club now, then it would likely be Liverpool to see if the price has fallen. As it happens at Newcastle they can develop the stadium, training ground/academy, squad, and city, and all for much less than a top 6 team would cost, with a place in the top 6/7 firmly up for grabs.

[Thumbheed]

5 minutes ago, Colos Short and Curlies said:

Any attempted takeover of any other PL club by PIF would get caught up in so many legal challenges that it's a non starter.

MA would rightly sue the Premier League for more than the £350m and it would not be inconceivable for the government to get involved under anti-competition law.

There is too much floating around in terms of big 6 interference, and partner blocking through the piracy challenge / MBS link for any challenge by us to not cause enough strife for it not to be worth the hassle.

You've also got the 'side hustle' on the city development and what this will also mean for Saudi Arabia. Manchester is already tied up with Gulf money, it's just not an attractive option at the price with all of the baggage involved  

I don't think there's anything in the law that could force PIF to purchase us though, which means any subsequent legal case would be nothing to do with them.

Can only hope that there's some agreement with Ashley in place in light of the efforts he's going to to force through this takeover which makes PIF investing in another club unviable but even then I'd imagine there's a limit on that. 

Agree, investment in the city is a big plus point in our favour, but again, I think there's more value in what Man Utd brings to their image. 

[RS]

No updates from second coming Keith?

[Colos Short and Curlies]

2 minutes ago, Thumbheed said:

I don't think there's anything in the law that could force PIF to purchase us though, which means any subsequent legal case would be nothing to do with them.

Can only hope that there's some agreement with Ashley in place in light of the efforts he's going to to force through this takeover which makes PIF investing in another club unviable but even then I'd imagine there's a limit on that. 

Agree, investment in the city is a big plus point in our favour, but again, I think there's more value in what Man Utd brings to their image. 

Of course it doesn't force them to buy us, but it makes the process to have the takeover of another club prohibitive, and financially it would bring down the premier league

[Thumbheed]

41 minutes ago, HTT II said:

There is zero value to SA owning Man Utd over NUFC. You need to understand the culture. My good SA friend would rather spend the same money building his own house then buying a ready made house. He’d rather buy a new car than a second hand one. He’d rather build his own business than buy into a business. This is more than about sport washing, PR, money, it’s about showcasing SA as the go to investment vehicle for any start up, country, region, business that wants to build organically and develop long term in ways money can’t just buy which of so, well, they could by the whole of football if they wanted, the whole the media, make every negative word written about them on archive obsolete. NUFC is a big deal for them. I’d fear them going after Leeds rather than us than Man Utd. They want NUFC to transform us into something bigger, better, more successful and more valuable than Man Utd in sport, in business, in investment and as an asset. But img shares in Tesla to the, is like me investing 1k in Bitcoin, it’s just an investment. Buying NUFC is more than that, it’s a vision, a project, a grandstand show piece to an empire like the Coliseum in Rom and Gladiator games. 

Well this is fundamentally where we disagree. We've established that £4bn would be nothing to them so the financial viability angle doesn't really stand up to scrutiny. 

You have to look at their investments in F1 and major boxing events to see what they're trying to do with sport. It's to showcase KSA on the world stage and as much as I hate saying this, but having Man Utd as the centrepiece of Vision2030 with their ready made global fanbase and their well estabilshed commercial positioning makes them a much more appealing investment imo.

It'd be akin to them purchasing Man City over Man Utd pre Sinawatra. 

Culturally speaking I think they will always want the very best, I think the public talk of seeking value is as misleading as there 'we've pulled out because it's no longer economically viable' statement. 

 

 

Edited May 4, 2021 by Thumbheed

[Stifler]

3 minutes ago, Thumbheed said:

Well this is fundamentally where we disagree. We've established that £4bn would be nothing to them so the financial viability angle doesn't really stand up to scrutiny. 

You have to look at their investments in F1 and major boxing events to see what they're trying to do with sport. It's to showcase KSA on the world's stage and as much as I hate saying this, having Man Utd as the centrepiece of Vision2030 with their readymade global fanbase makes more sense than bringing us to that level. 

It'd be akin to them purchasing Man City over Man Utd pre Sinawatra. 

It is though interesting to note that the 2 sovereign states, and both Middle Eastern ones have bought clubs who are not the biggest in their country, in fact the UAE bought Man City who shares a city with and were overshadowed by Man Utd who were arguably the biggest team in the world. Before that they were only a Mike Ashley lads night out away from buying us ahead of Man City.

Qatar bought PSG who were at the time in a league that Monaco were about to buy their way too dominance, with Lyon having recently won 7 straight domestic titles, and Marseille being the biggest team in France in terms of support.

[Whitley mag]

5 minutes ago, Stifler said:

It is though interesting to note that the 2 sovereign states, and both Middle Eastern ones have bought clubs who are not the biggest in their country, in fact the UAE bought Man City who shares a city with and were overshadowed by Man Utd who were arguably the biggest team in the world. Before that they were only a Mike Ashley lads night out away from buying us ahead of Man City.

Qatar bought PSG who were at the time in a league that Monaco were about to buy their way too dominance, with Lyon having recently won 7 straight domestic titles, and Marseille being the biggest team in France in terms of support.

It’s a common misconception that Ashley being drunk cost us a takeover by Sheik Mansour. It is rumoured they looked at us pre Man City bid, but the drunken night out was in relation to Zabeel Investments in Dubai.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1057300/Dubai-says--8216-8217-Ashley-drinks-cocktail-public.html

 

[Thumbheed]

31 minutes ago, Stifler said:

It is though interesting to note that the 2 sovereign states, and both Middle Eastern ones have bought clubs who are not the biggest in their country, in fact the UAE bought Man City who shares a city with and were overshadowed by Man Utd who were arguably the biggest team in the world. Before that they were only a Mike Ashley lads night out away from buying us ahead of Man City.

Qatar bought PSG who were at the time in a league that Monaco were about to buy their way too dominance, with Lyon having recently won 7 straight domestic titles, and Marseille being the biggest team in France in terms of support.

Yeh agree with that, and certainly not disputing what a great investment we would be, in fact I'd go as far as saying we were a better investment than both those clubs (reckon Qatar regret investing in PSG personally), all I'm saying is would wealth funds have invested in PSG and Man City if they knew Man Utd was available? 

Rhetorical question obviously but a relevant one all the same.

Edit: worth nothing that Staveley herself tried to facilitate the purchase of Liverpool by DIC...

 

 

Edited May 4, 2021 by Thumbheed

[Colos Short and Curlies]

10 minutes ago, Thumbheed said:

Yeh agree with that, and certainly not disputing what a great investment we would be, in fact I'd go as far as saying we were a better investment than both those clubs (reckon Qatar regret investing in PSG personally), all I'm saying is would wealth funds have invested in PSG and Man City if they knew Man Utd was available? 

Rhetorical question obviously but a relevant one all the same.

I think they would have. Man Utd will always be Man Utd, Old Trafford will always be Old Trafford. 

With a City or a PSG UAE and Qatar have been able to quickly build a global brand in the image that they want. The images of the City owners celebrating when they won the Premier League wouldn't have happened had it been Man Utd as the story isn't there. Of course the club would have had greater global exposure more quickly if they had bought Man Utd or even Liverpool but UAE got exposure more quickly with it being Man City, the club and location of ownership are one, wouldn't be the case in buying one of the established elite clubs

[Ben]

I loved that league table today on how much clubs have spent on infrastructure in the past 10 years, everyone was complaining on the piss poor amount Man U had spent, Newcastles was 10 times less 

[The Prophet]

I think the potential buyers have used the phrase 'value for money' a couple of times. It seems it was a factor in their decision to fund the purchase.

[robbo_11]

6 minutes ago, The Prophet said:

I think the potential buyers have used the phrase 'value for money' a couple of times. It seems it was a factor in their decision to fund the purchase.

Probably wider considerations about investment in the city. If they have the football club then that value for money might be properties or investments for partners in the area leading to a greater return on that £350m initial contribution.

[Thumbheed]

17 minutes ago, Colos Short and Curlies said:

I think they would have. Man Utd will always be Man Utd, Old Trafford will always be Old Trafford. 

With a City or a PSG UAE and Qatar have been able to quickly build a global brand in the image that they want. The images of the City owners celebrating when they won the Premier League wouldn't have happened had it been Man Utd as the story isn't there. Of course the club would have had greater global exposure more quickly if they had bought Man Utd or even Liverpool but UAE got exposure more quickly with it being Man City, the club and location of ownership are one, wouldn't be the case in buying one of the established elite clubs

Fair enough, as in the edit above, it's worth noting DIC tried to buy Liverpool but for Hicks and Gillet.

At the end of the day it's mindless speculation on something which is  not even close to having any grounding in reality, but I do stand by my belief that there would be a risk should it be a viable option and I only do so against the backdrop of the type of person MBS is and more specifically what he's trying to achieve with his flagship Vision2030 policy. 

 

[GWN]

Tired of it all now ,we are chasing a dream that looks over with every day that passes.

This time next year we will still be following planes and hoping . Time to move on? But move on to what 

[Happinesstan]

9 hours ago, Thumbheed said:

Financially it obviously makes perfect sense to purchase us over Man Utd, but you have to offset this with what they're trying to achieve with Vision2030 which appears to be about diversifying their economy as well as reestablishing their image on the world stage. 

Sadly, you only need to look at this very board to see how easily their less savoury antics are forgotten at the slightest hint of investment in a football club, now multiply that impact by the substantially larger Man Utd fanbase. 

That's where the real value is. 

 

Dunno about that. Man Utd's fan base is more global and may not be so willing to turn a blind eye. It would be global news if they bought Man U and every fan would be aware of their ownership. If they take over NUFC, only the legacy fan will know. Other fans can grow to love the club through watching them play football, with the owners remaining relatively anonymous.

[Happinesstan]

9 hours ago, Thumbheed said:

I don't think there's anything in the law that could force PIF to purchase us though, which means any subsequent legal case would be nothing to do with them.

Can only hope that there's some agreement with Ashley in place in light of the efforts he's going to to force through this takeover which makes PIF investing in another club unviable but even then I'd imagine there's a limit on that. 

Agree, investment in the city is a big plus point in our favour, but again, I think there's more value in what Man Utd brings to their image. 

Hoping that Ashley can get £350M for a business that he bought for £150M and done nothing but asset stripping is not somewhere I'm willing to go. Football clubs are high value because the facilities [assets] required to be successful  are bloody expensive. Man city spend £100 million on post match facilities, we've sent Shola out nicking wheelie bins from Haydon Grange.

[Ben]

I still think if the Glazers are taking £23 million a year, if you offered them a healthy profit of 10 times that Man U could be purchased fairly cheap 

[TRon]

19 hours ago, HTT II said:

There is zero value to SA owning Man Utd over NUFC. You need to understand the culture. My good SA friend would rather spend the same money building his own house then buying a ready made house. He’d rather buy a new car than a second hand one. He’d rather build his own business than buy into a business. This is more than about sport washing, PR, money, it’s about showcasing SA as the go to investment vehicle for any start up, country, region, business that wants to build organically and develop long term in ways money can’t just buy which of so, well, they could by the whole of football if they wanted, the whole the media, make every negative word written about them on archive obsolete. NUFC is a big deal for them. I’d fear them going after Leeds rather than us than Man Utd. They want NUFC to transform us into something bigger, better, more successful and more valuable than Man Utd in sport, in business, in investment and as an asset. But img shares in Tesla to the, is like me investing 1k in Bitcoin, it’s just an investment. Buying NUFC is more than that, it’s a vision, a project, a grandstand show piece to an empire like the Coliseum in Rom and Gladiator games. 

Agree with this although you've gone a bit OTT with the grandstanding at the end in typical HTT fashion. 

But essentially for the Saudis it would be a pride thing as well, which I think you mentioned in a previous post. Having put their name to NUFC, I think they'd want to see it through, especially given the huge interest it's generated not just around the football world, but in their own country. Plus Staveley really does seem to have invested herself personally in this, she has refused to be put off by any number of obstacles. I think she's bitten by the NUFC bug. 

[maze]

11 hours ago, GWN said:

Tired of it all now ,we are chasing a dream that looks over with every day that passes.

This time next year we will still be following planes and hoping . Time to move on? But move on to what 

Surely, by this time next year you have moved on to engage in more productive activities then Ashley's NUFC?

My subscription for EPL expires on the 12th of May. I won't be renewing. So, I'll give it to the start of the upcoming season for Mike Ashley to sell. If he's still here... I'm not.

[STM]

At what point do we want MA to pull the plug with the Saudi deal?

[GWN]

6 minutes ago, maze said:

Surely, by this time next year you have moved on to engage in more productive activities then Ashley's NUFC?

My subscription for EPL expires on the 12th of May. I won't be renewing. So, I'll give it to the start of the upcoming season for Mike Ashley to sell. If he's still here... I'm not.

I don’t give him a penny, never have for a long time mate 

[et tu brute]

4 minutes ago, STM said:

At what point do we want MA to pull the plug with the Saudi deal?

It’s not going to happen until this arbitration is sorted I would presume, however long it takes. I’m giving it to the start of next season and if him and Bruce are still here, then it’s total switch off time for me until they’re gone.

 

 

Edited May 5, 2021 by et tu brute

[Shearergol]

59 minutes ago, et tu brute said:

It’s not going to happen until this arbitration is sorted I would presume, however long it takes. I’m giving it to the start of next season and if him and Bruce are still here, then it’s total switch off time for me until they’re gone.

With you on this one. I very nearly managed to give up this season. Stopped watching any games, then somehow starting watching when Jones came in, out of interest. If Bruce is still manager at the start of next season I couldn't bring myself to even care about results.

[black_n_white]

99% sure Bruce will be in charge next season unfortunately.