The "delighted Ashley has gone, but uncomfortable with Saudi ownership" thread

[Wullie]

Sounds like your neighbours are psychopathic.

[Awaymag]

This thread man.......you're all nuts!

[Awaymag]

Thank you for attending the human rights and Saudi Arabia night classes.  Im please to say that you have all reached a standard where you should feel confident in sitting the exam at the end.  Those that pass will be the awarded '  Well I never thought Id get neck shit deep in SA History 1931 to current while trying to support NUFC' diploma

 

Good Luck1

[madras]

33 minutes ago, Wullie said:

Sounds like your neighbours are psychopathic.

I work with a load of 50plus year old blokes and that's regular rhetoric.

[Hanshithispantz]

6 hours ago, Kid Icarus said:

 

If it's something they specialise in I don't mind if they are personally, but it clearly sticks in people's throats when some are both condemners and participants. 

 

You were talking about having our cake and eating it earlier, this is no different imo. If a journalist wants to both criticise the pawns in sportswashing and participate in it as pawns themselves - citing whatever sacrifice they're unwilling to make as their valid reason for participating in it - they're going to be just as open to finger pointing, especially from those they've criticised. 

 

'well it'll just be someone else that goes to Russia if it's not me' isn't really any different to 'well if it's not Newcastle that's taken over, it'll just be some other club'

Basically this. The amount of hoop jumping most Western people have to do in order to claim the moral high ground here is impossible to even fathom 

The interviewer is clearlly being a cunt. It's the kind of performative shite I'd expect from PETA.

[Hanshithispantz]

Like I'm in no way defending any of the actions of anyone involved with the PIF, and anyone who wants to maturely inform an audience of any of it is more than welcome.

 

Not sure why we have to respect cockends baiting the manager of NUFC with pointless questions, or the gobshites attacking the fans like.

 

 

Edited March 16, 2022 by Hanshithispantz

[Shadow Puppets]

10 minutes ago, madras said:

I work with a load of 50plus year old blokes and that's regular rhetoric.

It’s regular rhetoric for a majority I would say. And sometimes it’s very difficult to argue with… if a paedophile / criminal is in your community it’s a pretty natural human response to want that person to suffer. 

 

 

Edited March 16, 2022 by Shadow Puppets

[Guest reefatoon]

People either side of the argument should probably take a leaf out of Eddie Howes book and just not make comment/judgement on things they are not really fully knowledgeable about. 

[WarrenBartonCentrePartin]

1 hour ago, Cookie1892 said:

at the risk of sounding like a tit i find this all a bit overwhelming now if im honest.

 

Various facebook community group pages around where i live (and im sure its the same where you are) have posts on the daily where things have been stolen, paedos caught, animals harmed etc etc where invariably the comments from all of the locals are along the lines of:

 

should chop the thieving bastards hands off in public

string them up from the nearest tree the wrong'uns

should be burned like they did to that dog/cat/car etc

should have their privates cut off and fed to them

should be chemically castrated

 

however, this is exactly what our saudi overlords do for those types of crimes and yet here we are lambasting them for carrying out these punishments

 

so what am i meant to do, think or say when it appears that type of punishment is wanted here?

 

Oh aye, if an alien landed on earth, didn't interact with anyone but went straight on Facey B, it'd think 99.9% of people in this country at least were vehemently supportive of capital punishment.

[Thiago]

Howe's said pretty much what I expect him to and what I'd say if you stopped me on the street. 

 

 

[Awaymag]

[Chris_R]

2 hours ago, reefatoon said:

People either side of the argument should probably take a leaf out of Eddie Howes book and just not make comment/judgement on things they are not really fully knowledgeable about. 

 

I disagree with that.

 

I'm fairly comfortable with Saudi ownership, but I don't think anyone should keep quiet about anything just because they don't know everything about it.

 

We should all constantly question everything. But we should do so with an open mind. It's closed-mindedness that causes problems, not inquiry and discussion which we should all practice to broaden our understanding and knowledge.

[Awaymag]

12 minutes ago, Chris_R said:

 

I disagree with that.

 

I'm fairly comfortable with Saudi ownership, but I don't think anyone should keep quiet about anything just because they don't know everything about it.

 

We should all constantly question everything. But we should do so with an open mind. It's closed-mindedness that causes problems, not inquiry and discussion which we should all practice to broaden our understanding and knowledge.

Im mean each to their own but I wont be questioning anything........Quite easy for me to support NUFC and not think about human rights/Saudi atrocities (as we are legally PIF owned).   I wasn't remotely interested before the take over, Im not now.  Who am I to tell a country how it should act when I have no real knowledge on the situation.  Im not interested in PIF either.

 

Im interested in NUFC and winning absolutely everything........its our turn now!

 

 

[Tiresias]

I actually think it's perfectly reasonable to not want to worry at all about ownership, who owns us not the decision of any of us fans (tragically) and not our responsibility. I am a lot more concerned about it but I dont want anyone to think I am trying to make anyone feel bad for just enjoying the football, and I think some of the coverage has been condescending and hectoring of normal fans who just want to watch their football team. I do think though fans shouldn't be critican of other fans who do have concerns of the ownership, and I do think unnecessarily cheerleading or defending saudi arabia is kinda tragic. 

[Dinho lad]

5 hours ago, Kid Icarus said:

 

You might want to come in a little less hot with your attempts at manipulation. The death penalty isn't acceptable under any circumstances here, so keep that in mind and work backwards from there rather than trying to appeal to us because of who was executed.

 

 

 

 

Your country has a wonderful and an unbreakable special relationship with the USA, a country that executes people and are rarely called out about it. This relationship is so strong that that you've actually collaborated together in invading other people's lands and, of course, killing innocents people in the process. The odd business deal here and there, of course. 

 

Unacceptable.

 

Keep that in mind before displaying your 'this is Europe' stuff. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 16, 2022 by Dinho lad

[Klaus]

3 hours ago, Hanshithispantz said:

Like I'm in no way defending any of the actions of anyone involved with the PIF, and anyone who wants to maturely inform an audience of any of it is more than welcome.

 

Not sure why we have to respect cockends baiting the manager of NUFC with pointless questions, or the gobshites attacking the fans like.

 

 

 

 

It's such a shit form of 'gotcha' journalism. It's only going to get worse if we start challenging higher up the league in the near future as well.

 

They aren't genuinely interested in his views on the subject either, they just want him to bite. Fair play to him for not taking the bait so far.

 

 

Edited March 16, 2022 by Klaus

[Kid Icarus]

26 minutes ago, Dinho lad said:

 

Your country has a wonderful and an unbreakable special relationship with the USA, a country that executes people and are rarely called out about it. This relationship is so strong that that you've actually collaborated together in invading other people's lands and, of course, killing innocents people in the process. The odd business deal here and there, of course. 

 

Unacceptable.

 

Keep that in mind before displaying your 'this is Europe' stuff. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You're saying this like we (the clique) support those things or haven't condemned them. 

 

 

Edited March 16, 2022 by Kid Icarus

[et tu brute]

32 minutes ago, Tiresias said:

I actually think it's perfectly reasonable to not want to worry at all about ownership, who owns us not the decision of any of us fans (tragically) and not our responsibility. I am a lot more concerned about it but I dont want anyone to think I am trying to make anyone feel bad for just enjoying the football, and I think some of the coverage has been condescending and hectoring of normal fans who just want to watch their football team. I do think though fans shouldn't be critican of other fans who do have concerns of the ownership, and I do think unnecessarily cheerleading or defending saudi arabia is kinda tragic. 

Would the fans of the other clubs be saying the same if they had our owners at their club? I think we know the answer to that question. I'm oretty sure our fans would be the same if PIF had invested in another club. Faux outrage is always in abundance amongst football supporters.

[Dinho lad]

26 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said:

 

 

You're saying this like we support those things or haven't condemned them. 

 

I said it to someone who, like so many in this country, is so in love with their cultural identity to the point that they forget about the crimes that Great Britain are continually participating in. (It wouldn't be so bad if those kinda of people weren't so arrogant about their 'prestigious' nationality/ethnicity). 

 

When you attack someone (yes, it was an attack) in that manner with that meaning (i.e., it's unacceptable here - this is the UK!), you place yourself, not just as a country but also individually, as someone better than the person you are responding to. 

 

It doesn't matter if you've condemned your country's actions or not, you are using part of your national identity to belittle that 'other' person and/or their cultural stance - even though your culture's country have fucked up so many other places and cultures around the world. 

 

Try to use a different tone and meaning next time. 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 16, 2022 by Dinho lad

[Kid Icarus]

6 minutes ago, Dinho lad said:

 

I said it to someone who, like so many in this country, is so in love with their cultural identity to the point that they forget about the crimes that Great Britain are continually participating in. (It wouldn't be so bad if those kinda of people weren't so arrogant about their 'prestigious' nationality/ethnicity). 

 

When you attack someone (yes, it was an attack) in that manner with that meaning (i.e., it's unacceptable here - this is the UK!), you place yourself, not just as a country but also individually, as someone better than the person you are responding to. 

 

It doesn't matter if you've condemned your country's actions or not, you are using part of your national identity to belittle that 'other' person and/or their cultural stance - even though your culture's country have fucked up so many other places and cultures around the world. 

 

Try to use a different tone and meaning next time. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Drivel

 

 

Edited March 16, 2022 by Kid Icarus

[Guest reefatoon]

1 hour ago, Chris_R said:

 

I disagree with that.

 

I'm fairly comfortable with Saudi ownership, but I don't think anyone should keep quiet about anything just because they don't know everything about it.

 

We should all constantly question everything. But we should do so with an open mind. It's closed-mindedness that causes problems, not inquiry and discussion which we should all practice to broaden our understanding and knowledge.

I totally agree with that. Question things certainly and want to learn. It was the closed mindedness that I was on about.

[Dinho lad]

1 minute ago, Kid Icarus said:

 

You're talking drivel

 

It's ok for you, you're been provided with pretty much what you want and need - of course your default view of your country in is not going to be so bad.

 

Try living in places that your country have left with salient, neagtive reminders about what GB have done to it, and then you'd realise, in reality, that your country's past and present is also, in effect, right up there with Saudi. 

[Wolfcastle]

Just seen a report on sky that said he'd spoke to Chelsea fans, some accepted the sanctions, some never would but that all think Chelsea shouldn't be the only club.

 

This isn't cleaning up football. This is punishing the dictator of a country via his business associates and other means for invading another country, committing war crimes daily and who needs to be deterred so as not to start world war 3/nuclear war.

 

Any other oligarch football club owners with close ties to Putin should be punished in excactly the same way. But whatever people think of other countries, China, Saudi, UAE, Qatar, Iran - those countries have not done this, the idea therefore they should be treat as though they have, is minority report stuff. If they ever do, then they should be treat exactly the same.

[St. Maximin]

While I don’t think Howe should be asked these questions, they’re a natural consequence of the takeover. What I’m more annoyed by are the reactions on social media criticising him for being part of the ‘sportswashing project’. I’m not sure what he is supposed to say? It’s not only not something he is meant to talk about, but he may not even be trained to handle the questions well so it’s best to say nothing. 
 

Speaking of sportswashing, I might just be ignorant but I still don’t know what clear examples there are of it - in this case or previously. To me seems like one of those coined phrases that gets raised every time a country with poor human rights records invests invests in major sporting events/teams, without evidence of how it’s worked and why it’s so bad. I’m not saying it isn’t a thing, but certainly for us I don’t see the concerns - the clearest examples so far are a minority of whoppers on Twitter acting as Saudi apologists. Surely any sportswashing intentions would have gone deeper than that?

 

That said I cannot help feel slightly uncomfortable about the takeover though. That’s out of guilt about enjoying the support of a nation that has done terrible things, but I don’t see them widely becoming heroes to the west through this takeover while maintaining their abuses, so I don’t really see sportswashing as the issue. If they really wanted to improve their reputation they could have just not killed 81 people the other day, as it’s not like none of us would hear about it…

 

 

 

 

Edited March 16, 2022 by St. Maximin

[Kid Icarus]

1 hour ago, Dinho lad said:

 

It's ok for you, you're been provided with pretty much what you want and need - of course your default view of your country in is not going to be so bad.

 

Try living in places that your country have left with salient, neagtive reminders about what GB have done to it, and then you'd realise, in reality, that your country's past and present is also, in effect, right up there with Saudi. 

 

I'm well aware of what 'my' country is like, its history, its imperialism and am completely opposed to all of it. If I was criticising SA while excusing the UK, your posts would have a point, but as I'm not, they don't.