The "delighted Ashley has gone, but uncomfortable with Saudi ownership" thread

[macphisto]

5 hours ago, Ghandis Flip-Flop said:

Mike Ashley sold the club because the Saudi's offered him above Market Value for it, if he’d been bothered by fan pressure it'd have been sold in 2008. Fans have no say at all. The removal of Hicks and Gillette at Liverpool is often attributed to fan power, but in reality it was Barclays who forced them to sell after they’d defaulted on a payment, nothing at all to do with fan protest.

What fan pressure? We didn't do anything and still attended matches. There was no fan pressure apart from a funeral procession.....

[Dinho lad]

14 hours ago, Kid Icarus said:

Not trying to be critical or anything just seemed really broad for it to just be here's what the Newcastle fans think about the takeover.  Usually it's like '"Good game?" understanding the role of modern football fan loyalty in a hypercapitalist bubble'

 

 

 

 

Remind us... where do you work again?

[Dr.Spaceman]

Quote

In your opinion, how could Mike Ashley of improved the club?

 

You sure you're a uni student with grammar like that?

[RS]

Reckon this was Luke Edwards proving that we’re all tea towel wearing, reporter butcher supporters. 

[mighty__mag]

I'm  genuinely curious if any current ST holders didn't renew before today, based on the goings on in this thread, and, how they feel about Nufc going forward.

 

 

 

 

Edited May 19, 2022 by mighty__mag

[Kid Icarus]

Just been watching The Overlap fan debate there. I'm not sure who the lass is who was on for us, but I thought she spoke well in general and went with the whole 'I don't support Saudi Arabia, waving flags etc, it shouldn't be on us to have to answer these questions, but we shouldn't shy away from the conversation.' Totally fair enough, I think that's lip service and we'll be 'having the conversation' in 10 years time if they're still here, with nothing having changed, but I accept that outlook on it. 

 

Gary Neville though, man. I admire him for the soapbox he gets on about the state of this country, but he's such a political rube like. He's naive in the extreme with his 'bring them to the table' outlook. 

 

He actually asked her this with a completely straight face.

 

Quote

 

'How do you as fans work with the owners to ensure that they do change what they're doing over in Saudi Arabia to people? I think that would be really powerful' 

'That's my outlook. Welcome them, guardedly, but then place demands on them to change'

 

 

Or else what?  What sort of la la land do you have to be living in to think that the Saudi's could (allegedly) get away with 9/11 and murder a U.S journalist without the U.S doing a thing to them, have the U.K government beg them for oil within the last month, own 80% of a football club as a bit on the side and then for the fans of that club to come along and think they have any leverage to get them to rethink let alone place demands on them over their domestic human rights policies? 

 

I wouldn't mind, but only a few weeks ago he was saying how his 'bring them to the table' outlook had been wrong when everyone suddenly decided Abramovic was a wrongun 20 years later. Now he's gone back to it. Hopefully he'll wise up to his naivety permanently at some point. 

 

 

Edited May 26, 2022 by Kid Icarus

[Smal]

He’s not very smart.

[TRon]

Not to mention it's a bit condescending to think it's ok to take Saudi money and then demand they change their own culture to our liking. I mean I could understand if we were paying them to do it.

[TheBrownBottle]

Golfers are shit at answering the old 'moral quandary' questions shocker

 

https://www.bbc.com/sport/av/golf/61738171

[Guest HTT II]

Give golfers’ wages to soldiers…

[St. Maximin]

2 hours ago, TheBrownBottle said:

Golfers are shit at answering the old 'moral quandary' questions shocker

 

https://www.bbc.com/sport/av/golf/61738171

Not sure why they should be the ones being criticised when a journalist is clearly being difficult. They may not be as articulate as Howe, but presumably both parties have been rightly advised not to answer due to criticism they’ll receive. 
 

As Westwood said they’re hypothetical questions, so don’t really deserve an answer. We all know it’s about money for what its worth, but even then I’m not sure why they should be held to a higher standard than the many other people in sport benefiting from Saudi investment… or politicians. 

[Ben]

Without sounding like a broken record the UK and its citizens have been taking the coin from Saudi and its neighbours for years whether it be arms deals or pipe fitters working on oil rigs.

 

People like Barry Glenndinning are taking a moral high groud to try and sound clever an important but let's face it ge probably tweets on an I phone that was made in a bamboo hut by 6 year old kids.

[TheBrownBottle]

4 minutes ago, St. Maximin said:

Not sure why they should be the ones being criticised when a journalist is clearly being difficult. They may not be as articulate as Howe, but presumably both parties have been rightly advised not to answer due to criticism they’ll receive. 
 

As Westwood said they’re hypothetical questions, so don’t really deserve an answer. We all know it’s about money for what its worth, but even then I’m not sure why they should be held to a higher standard than the many other people in sport benefiting from Saudi investment… or politicians. 

'Would you have played in Apartheid SA?' is a straightforward tbh.  Sportspeople didn't play there.

[TheBrownBottle]

For clarity, I'm comfortable with journalists asking people who take money for this stuff difficult questions.  I don't think supporters of football clubs should need to answer them

[St. Maximin]

8 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said:

'Would you have played in Apartheid SA?' is a straightforward tbh.  Sportspeople didn't play there.

Then it’s a stupid question and Westwood seems more justified in his comments about hypothetical situations, especially if that one was impossible. Not really sure why a journalist needs to know about their moral positions in general, let alone over hypothetical situations. 

[Bompeter]

Plenty of prominent sportspeople did play in Apartheid South Africa though.

[TheBrownBottle]

3 minutes ago, St. Maximin said:

Then it’s a stupid question and Westwood seems more justified in his comments about hypothetical situations, especially if that one was impossible. Not really sure why a journalist needs to know about their moral positions in general, let alone over hypothetical situations. 

I’m guessing because sportspeople took a moral stance and refused to play apartheid SA?

 

The straightforward answer would have been ‘I don’t think KSA is the same as apartheid SA’.  

[St. Maximin]

33 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said:

I’m guessing because sportspeople took a moral stance and refused to play apartheid SA?

 

The straightforward answer would have been ‘I don’t think KSA is the same as apartheid SA’.  

It probably would have been yeah, but we don’t know what the journalist would have followed up with. He was ultimately put on the spot by a difficult journalist and understandably not used to answering questions about his morals. 

 

It also wasn’t the only scenario he was asked about and perhaps it was a time in history he didn’t really know about. 

[Awaymag]

I really don't give a shit but Sky sports asking these questions and then still want access to these players.....I know what I would do.      

[TheBrownBottle]

3 minutes ago, St. Maximin said:

It probably would have been yeah, but we don’t know what the journalist would have followed up with. He was ultimately put on the spot by a difficult journalist and understandably not used to answering questions about his morals. 

 

It also wasn’t the only scenario he was asked about and perhaps it was a time in history he didn’t really know about. 

Yeah, it is for me easy to forget that these blokes likely don’t directly remember it - and there’s a good chance they aren’t history buffs

 

It is a tricky one, and like most I find sports hacks on a selective high horse tiresome.  It does look like their PR people prepped them beforehand re KSA questions, but they probably didn’t anticipate comparative questions.

 

Mind, I do also think that individual sports - where you’re effectively self-employed and directly taking the coin - actually have more of a case to answer than a footballer taking money off a club.  Even clubs like Man City make most of their income from TV and corporate rather than ‘iffy’ sponsorship deals

[Wild Geese]

"MANY BELIEFS.....

 

"MANY CULTURES......

 

"ONE TOON ARMY !!!!!

[Happinesstan]

4 hours ago, TheBrownBottle said:

Golfers are shit at answering the old 'moral quandary' questions shocker

 

https://www.bbc.com/sport/av/golf/61738171

It's going to b good for the game of golf. Oh ok then.

[Tiresias]

55 minutes ago, Awaymag said:

I really don't give a shit but Sky sports asking these questions and then still want access to these players.....I know what I would do.      

 

How is this different from when we were all outraged at Ashley regime banning reporters who criticized him? No-one then was sympathetic to Ashley's side. It is a reporters job to ask why someone has decided to take money from someone, if they were comfortable taking the money they should be comfortable explaining themselves. It's not like everyone doesn't know why. These people have PR guys, someone easily could have given them a decent line of defense such as, 'I am excited at the opportunity, Saudi Arabla is not the same as Aparteid and while I do not endorse everything the Saudi state does I do not feel I am doing that by taking part in this golf tournament. I hope with more scruitny comes more openness and some of the issues can be improved. I think this could be a great tour for the audience and am excited at the opportunity.' or some bullshit like that. It will blow over. 

 

Of course journalists could be more critical of other clubs/institutions/tours etc but noone should be shocked to be asked about money from Saudi Arabia, it's going to happen, it is the journalists job to ask. And if we don't have journalists asking difficult questions things like that massive sexual abuse scandal at football clubs that came out a few years ago would never have happened.

[Kid Icarus]

5 hours ago, Ben said:

Without sounding like a broken record the UK and its citizens have been taking the coin from Saudi and its neighbours for years whether it be arms deals or pipe fitters working on oil rigs.

 

People like Barry Glenndinning are taking a moral high groud to try and sound clever an important but let's face it ge probably tweets on an I phone that was made in a bamboo hut by 6 year old kids.

 

Not defending Glenndinning because it doesn't apply to him and he's a cunt, but when I've thought about the whole hypocrisy thing, for me it comes down to two different things.

 

1. whether people are in unavoidable or institutionalised situations (driving cars, using Amazon, eating meat, using technology etc)

or

 

    2. active participants who excuse themselves of not making the sacrifices they think others should be making.

 

I've said it before but our society has been created using a system where it's impossible to anyone to not be some form of hypocrite. Pointing out that things can be and should be better isn't wrong in those circumstances.

 

 

Edited June 10, 2022 by Kid Icarus

[Smal]

12 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said:

 

Not defending Glenndinning because it doesn't apply to him and he's a cunt, but when I've thought about the whole hypocrisy thing, for me it comes down to two different things.

 

1. whether people are in unavoidable or institutionalised situations (driving cars, using Amazon, eating meat, using technology etc)

or

 

    2. active participants who excuse themselves of not making the sacrifices they think others should be making.

 

I've said it before but our society has been created using a system where it's impossible to anyone to not be some form of hypocrite. Pointing out that things can be and should be better isn't wrong in those circumstances.