The "delighted Ashley has gone, but uncomfortable with Saudi ownership" thread

[Tiresias]

My stance is I'm not going to pretend I'm comfortable with the whole thing or i have any good answers but i do think the premier League would be better without states owning clubs and indeed sensible ownership structures all round, but i have no say in who owns my club so will enjoy what i can.

 

What i won't do is become an unpaid pr man for Saudi Arabia and pretend they're great and anyone who says different is against us. I just want is run sensibly with ambitious i don't care if that means playing along with ffp for however long. I will criticise or owners for crap just as it should be called out anywhere. I wont for a moment begrudge anyone in Newcastle choosing to not give a shit and just enjoying the ride, good the area needs it

 

 

Edited June 30, 2023 by Tiresias

[huss9]

2 hours ago, Smal said:

It's not just hosting any international fixture though is it. It's the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. A state whose dictatorship regime commits war crimes and murders Yemeni schoolchildren, chops up journalists, executes LGBTQ people and imprisons any dissenting voices. 

 

They would be playing at SJP as a display and celebration of our club's links with that regime. 

i agree but there's loads of murdering regimes out there.

Russia's eventually been banned

whilst Israel happily carries on.

and the US have got the world cup ffs. some of the CIA atrocities are hideous.

we then have India, Iran, China and some of the African countries.

 

I'd say the Israeli regime is the worst on the planet.

 

10 wrongs dont make a right though.

[Tiresias]

1 minute ago, huss9 said:

i agree but there's loads of murdering regimes out there.

Russia's eventually been banned

whilst Israel happily carries on.

and the US have got the world cup ffs. some of the CIA atrocities are hideous.

we then have India, Iran, China and some of the African countries.

 

I'd say the Israeli regime is the worst on the planet.

 

10 wrongs dont make a right though.

 

Honestly nation states should not own football clubs it's ridiculous they're sports clubs should be for the community not to advertise even a nice benevolent country like Iceland or something. Too much money all round

[The Butcher]

17 minutes ago, Scoot said:

I'm going to be brutally honest here. I didn't pay any attention to middle Eastern human rights before we were taken over by PIF and I haven't since they took over us. I probably won't in the future either. I know it sounds incredibly selfish but I'm really not that arsed about it as I have no connection to it. 

 

I'm purely in it for the football and if PIF want to invest in my club and make us great, that's fine with me. If Saudi Arabia are going to play and international match at St James' Park which could benefit the club in the long run, that's fine with me too.

 

I'm not going to go all mackem here and pretend I know anything about what happens in the middle east. 

 

That's my stance on the whole thing. If that makes me bad, then I apologise!

Agree 100%

[Shays Given Tim Flowers]

@Scoot It doesn't make you bad at all. It does make you ignorant however. Given that you are aware that there may be a probelmatic aspect of their ownership why not take the time to learn about the issues and then see if your view changes? You might then decide that you wanted to do something. You may well decide you wanted to do nothing too. For me i'm afraid the price of this ownership should be a degree of discomfort for all fans. I may be wrong in that view but it's a conversation that won't go away and it is also an important conversation. I really don't have an answer beyond being open to thinking about it. 

[TRC]

I dont really have any issue with Saudi's owning us or even State ownership, everyone has to play by the same rules now so it doesn't bother me in a footballing sense.

 

I find it difficult to really care about other countries comiting 'atrocities' when the UK are sending refugees to Rwanda. I don't think owning a football club changes anything personally. Sportswashing has become a watered down term used to cause outrage. To me Saudi sees how Dubai is a destination, and they want a piece of that pie, its 100% about money, I dont think they give a shit what the rest of the world think of them.

 

Just my opinion, if I'm wrong feel free to educate.

[Wandy]

34 minutes ago, Scoot said:

I'm going to be brutally honest here. I didn't pay any attention to middle Eastern human rights before we were taken over by PIF and I haven't since they took over us. I probably won't in the future either. I know it sounds incredibly selfish but I'm really not that arsed about it as I have no connection to it. 

 

I'm purely in it for the football and if PIF want to invest in my club and make us great, that's fine with me. If Saudi Arabia are going to play and international match at St James' Park which could benefit the club in the long run, that's fine with me too.

 

I'm not going to go all mackem here and pretend I know anything about what happens in the middle east. 

 

That's my stance on the whole thing. If that makes me bad, then I apologise!

 

You basically just spoke for 99% of the fanbase.

[Stifler]

1 minute ago, Tiresias said:

 

Honestly nation states should not own football clubs it's ridiculous they're sports clubs should be for the community not to advertise even a nice benevolent country like Iceland or something. Too much money all round

People only say this because it’s the Middle East countries who own football clubs.

If the U.K. government bought Man Utd, other than non-Man Utd fans, there would be no debate really.

Most Russian and Ukrainian clubs originated under the guise of different government departments.

German clubs originated under big companies, many of whom are global brands/conglomerates, Bayer, VW, Mercedes. The same applies to PSV in the Netherlands.

 

Honestly I‘m past the point of giving a fuck anymore. If people don’t like being owned by Saudi’s then fine, shut up and let those who do enjoy it get on with it.

On the same note, those who are not bothered shouldn’t be chastising those who don’t, which happens on social media.

[Kid Icarus]

1 hour ago, Smal said:

 

I can see what Ian means, I think, in that the problems that Ashley brought to the club were very different to an individual fan on an emotional and personal basis to the ones that KSA have brought. Yes this is a first world problem but if it's affecting your daily life, which is understandable if you're a lifelong NUFC fan with that kind of connection, then it's still a fairly big problem on that personal and emotional level. 

 

There are levels and the KSA issues are obviously worse on a macro and societal level, but I can see how it's less of a daily problem to someone in Newcastle. 

 

I don't disagree, everyone was miserable during the Ashley years and that connection is more real even if it is less meaningful. All I really mean is that once MBS came on the scene it kind of put things into the perspective, didn't it? Once you have that in the back of your mind it feels a bit ridiculous to talk about the 'real pain' we went through.

 

 

Edited June 30, 2023 by Kid Icarus

[Kid Icarus]

13 minutes ago, Wandy said:

 

You basically just spoke for 99% of the fanbase.

 

You love doing this

 

With all of the surveys that have been going around our fanbase about it, we'll probably know for sure soon enough. 

[Kid Icarus]

FWIW, I don't think anyone's bad or even ignorant for not caring about it like, the only thing that winds me up is people implying that others should stop talking about it or that there's anything wrong or virtue signally about feeling conflicted about it.

[RUHRLYASLEEVESUP]

13 minutes ago, Stifler said:

People only say this because it’s the Middle East countries who own football clubs.

If the U.K. government bought Man Utd, other than non-Man Utd fans, there would be no debate really.

Most Russian and Ukrainian clubs originated under the guise of different government departments.

German clubs originated under big companies, many of whom are global brands/conglomerates, Bayer, VW, Mercedes. The same applies to PSV in the Netherlands.

 

Honestly I‘m past the point of giving a fuck anymore. If people don’t like being owned by Saudi’s then fine, shut up and let those who do enjoy it get on with it.

On the same note, those who are not bothered shouldn’t be chastising those who don’t, which happens on social media.

I like this, too many “you should, you shouldn’t” annoying fuckers 

 

no one “should or shouldn’t” do anything if it suits them 

 

 

[Kid Icarus]

Pretty obvious what the thread's discussing by the title like, no one's making you read any of it. 

[Wullie]

27 minutes ago, Stifler said:

If the U.K. government bought Man Utd, other than non-Man Utd fans, there would be no debate really.

 

Agreed, I don't think anyone would pass comment on this non-event.

[mighty__mag]

It is sports washing no matter how we look at it, but we all lap up the signings, the champions league, the future infrastructure and investment. 

 

It would be safe to say that the final whistle vs Leicester nobody in the stadium was thinking about the unfortunate events in Saudi?

 

I look at Eddie Howe and think you kind of have to take his approach, he's clearly intelligent and a lovely guy, but he just has to separate the two (politics/football.)

 

This is how they'll continue to do this, until it becomes the norm, expect more kits like this in white and green, and expect more international friendlys etc, its sort of indoctrination.

 

They have a target for 2030, they chose sport.

 

 

[Smal]

there’s not really anything in the thread (recently, at least) that people should feel attacked by to be honest so I don’t know why people get so aggressive about it. I don’t think anyone here with concerns is likely to have a go at individual fans for not caring or having a different opinion. It’s not really a problem that individual members of the public can tackle or solve tbh.

 

23 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said:

 

I don't disagree, everyone was miserable during the Ashley years and that connection is more real even if it is less meaningful. All I really mean is that once MBS came on the scene it kind of put things into the perspective, didn't it? Once you have that in the back of your mind it feels a bit ridiculous to talk about the 'real pain' we went through.

 

 

 

 

Sure, there’s perspective. We’re dangerously close to a philosophical discussion but I don’t think it’s ludicrous to describe the Ashley years as real pain though, considering how it felt at the time on a daily basis. It’s obviously nothing compared to the pain felt by the families of victims of KSA but problems and feelings are relative I guess.

[Wandy]

23 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said:

 

You love doing this

 

With all of the surveys that have been going around our fanbase about it, we'll probably know for sure soon enough. 

 

Ask yourself this. How many people in the outside world have you encountered who say they are uncomfortable with the ownership?

[Chris_R]

Ultimately, I'll judge the owner of my football club on how they run the football club. This is exactly what I did with Ashley, and the Halls before them. Any issues I had with Ashley's ownership of us always revolved around what he did with Newcastle United, not his business practices. I didn't want him gone because he was a bad person, I'd have felt exactly the same if instead of running SD he owned non-profit puppy rescue centres and spent all his spare time reading stories to children at the local hospitals - I'd still have wanted him to fuck off and sell Newcastle.

 

Separately, as a human being with at least a modicum of empathy, I also want the people of Saudi Arabia to live under a pleasant, forward-thinking regime just like I want the workers at Sports Direct to not have to give birth in the toilets. For clarity, I'm not equating either of those two things to any degree at all, but whilst these things are of course very worthy of discussion - discussions I'll happily join in with at any time - I can compartmentalise them from my thoughts about football club ownership. This is something I've been able to do successfully in the past, and continue to do today.

[Interpolic]

6 minutes ago, Wullie said:

 

Agreed, I don't think anyone would pass comment on this non-event.

 

 Everyone was kicking off 25 years ago when Sky wanted to buy them, never mind the UK government. 

 

[Kid Icarus]

2 minutes ago, Wandy said:

 

Ask yourself this. How many people in the outside world have you encountered who say they are uncomfortable with the ownership?

 

Literally all of them.  That's why relying on anecdotes from your own bubble is unreliable.

[Wandy]

4 hours ago, Kid Icarus said:

 

Literally all of them.  That's why relying on anecdotes from your own bubble is unreliable.

 

It's hardly a bubble. About 95% of people backed the takeover in that survey when the Saudis were trying to get the club. There is already an astronomical amount of people wanting to get back into SJP. We could sell out a 75k stadium right now, and probably even more.

 

The bubble is the tiny minority who don't want the Saudis here.

 

I'd wager that when these people say they are uncomfortable with the ownership, what they mean is that they are uncomfortable with all of the negative reaction that comes from the media & other fanbases. But they say they are "uncomfortable" with the ownership, simply to save face.

 

If people were truly uncomfortable then they simply would stop their usual support of the club until a new ownership came along, it's that simple. My opinion.

 

Personally, not only am I delighted that these people own us, I also get an extra buzz from the insincere wailing from the media & other fanbases about it all. It's the icing on the cake.

 

No NUFC fan should feel guilt or discomfort at our ownership. Look at Man Utd fans, begging for the Qataris to take them over. And they haven't even gone 70 years without a trophy either.

 

 

Edited June 30, 2023 by Wandy

[HaydnNUFC]

I interpreted that survey as 95% of the fans desperately wanted Ashley out, the Saudi bid was the only game in town. People were outside SJP on 7th October 2021 to celebrate Ashley going. Demand for tickets is as high as it is because Ashley is out and we're good again, not because the Saudis are here. IMO any new owner with ambition could've done what's happened at the club so far; we've spent within our means in terms of FFP.

[RobsonsWonderland]

Maybe overtime we can positively change their perspective through the club ? 

 

I mean a women's team is one small step in the right direction.

 

The fact Amanda has such a positive presence another?

 

 

[mondonewc]

1 hour ago, huss9 said:

i agree but there's loads of murdering regimes out there.

Russia's eventually been banned

whilst Israel happily carries on.

and the US have got the world cup ffs. some of the CIA atrocities are hideous.

we then have India, Iran, China and some of the African countries.

 

I'd say the Israeli regime is the worst on the planet.

 

10 wrongs dont make a right though.

This! 

No desire to defend the indefensible, but many people are sadly heavily influenced by Western media, and much of that media is extremely hypocritical and ignores many of the despicable things done by governments and countries in the West, including our own. 

[Kid Icarus]

14 minutes ago, Wandy said:

 

It's hardly a bubble. About 95% of people backed the takeover in that survey when the Saudis were trying to get the club. There is already an astronomical amount of people wanting to get back into SJP. We could sell out a 75k stadium right now, and probably even more.

 

The bubble is the tiny minority who don't want the Saudis here.

 

I'd wager that when these people who say they are uncomfortable with the ownership, what they mean is that they are uncomfortable with all of the negative reaction that comes from the media & other fanbases. But they say they are "uncomfortable" with the ownership, simply to save face.

 

If people were truly uncomfortable then they simply would stop their usual support of the club until a new ownership came along, it's that simple. My opinion.

 

Personally, not only am I delighted that these people own us, I also get an extra buzz from the insincere wailing from the media & other fanbases about it all. It's the icing on the cake.

 

No NUFC fan should feel guilt or discomfort at our ownership. Look at Man Utd fans, begging for the Qataris to take them over. And they haven't even gone 70 years without a trophy either.

You're conflating backing the takeover with feeling uncomfortable about the ownership, they're not the same thing. You can back the takeover while still feeling uncomfortable or conflicted about the owners, that's obvious.

 

People can feel what they want about it, it's not for you or others to say what they should be feeling either way.

 

Like I say, there have been enough people doing surveys about the takeover and the owners in our fanbase that we can probably get an accurate number on it soon.

 

 

Edited June 30, 2023 by Kid Icarus