Foluwashola Posted October 9, 2021 Share Posted October 9, 2021 3 minutes ago, Inferior Acuña said: I am pretty conflicted by this, and I'm pretty jealous of those who are celebrating without thinking about it. I've had trouble articulating things, I've tried in a long fb post. But I've found where I'll 'sell out' and that I'm not morally pure enough to drop my football club over this, and I will enjoy the success that comes - after sticking with elite football through so much other moral shit. It's grim, but I'm not sure how this is supposed to be the red line all of a sudden. I've had numerous commiseration messages from friends in the US who know my politics and thought I was morally purer that I've had an awkward time replying to. Fail to see why you should have to justify yourself to anyone or why it in anyway impinges on your 'moral purity'. We don't get the choice to change teams, for most it's an accident of birth. The politics of the owner(s) is an absolute irrelevance for the most part. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdckelly Posted October 9, 2021 Share Posted October 9, 2021 to say I'm fairly conflicted on this would be putting it mildly, fact is as unpleasant a person and bad an owner Ashley is and was he pales into insignificance in comparison to the current regime in Saudi Arabia. They are probably the most evil regime on Earth right now tbh or at least in the conversation for it and to have NUFC associated with them is troubling to say the least. Now this goes well beyond football as the fact that most Western Democracy's buddy up to KSA and sell them weapons they use vs Yemen is disgusting. Quite how its permitted for the likes of them (or any state) to buy a football club in the first place is beyond me and quite how the Premier League have come to the conclusion that the Saudi state will have no influence on PIF or the running of NUFC is an impressive piece of mental gymnastics. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Pilgrim Posted October 9, 2021 Share Posted October 9, 2021 8 minutes ago, Inferior Acuña said: I am pretty conflicted by this, and I'm pretty jealous of those who are celebrating without thinking about it. I've had trouble articulating things, I've tried in a long fb post. But I've found where I'll 'sell out' and that I'm not morally pure enough to drop my football club over this, and I will enjoy the success that comes - after sticking with elite football through so much other moral shit. It's grim, but I'm not sure how this is supposed to be the red line all of a sudden. I've had numerous commiseration messages from friends in the US who know my politics and thought I was morally purer that I've had an awkward time replying to. Sometimes you have to dance with the devil. Don’t let perfect be the enemy of good and deal with whatever bullshit that comes along on its own terms. You and you alone are responsible for whether or not you go full on Man City Qatar apologist. We are beyond good and evil. If they do something horrendous, do what you need to do and call it out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leffe186 Posted October 9, 2021 Share Posted October 9, 2021 6 minutes ago, Inferior Acuña said: I am pretty conflicted by this, and I'm pretty jealous of those who are celebrating without thinking about it. I've had trouble articulating things, I've tried in a long fb post. But I've found where I'll 'sell out' and that I'm not morally pure enough to drop my football club over this, and I will enjoy the success that comes - after sticking with elite football through so much other moral shit. I've had numerous commiseration messages from friends in the US who know my politics and thought I was morally purer that I've had an awkward time replying to. It’s hard, man. There’s the added complication of having to sort out “football banter” from proper criticism. We all carry some views that are contradictory or at least morally ambiguous. The old chestnut - we all detest gloryhunters but we mostly love people who chose to follow our team from another country, or whatever. I wouldn’t say I’m jealous of those people, but I might say I’m a bit scared of them. Moral certainty in a large number of people can be dangerous. There’s a doc at work who’s a big Barca fan (pretty much the only other football “fan” at work). I had great fun bantering with him. When I decided to fuck football off my heart went out of it . I genuinely miss doing that, and I know I could properly slip back into it, but I also know that wouldn’t be honest. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest HTT II Posted October 9, 2021 Share Posted October 9, 2021 My thoughts which I posted in another thread… I see the argument that NUFC fans supporting NUFC under PIF is basically supporting a murderous regime too, yet the legacy clubs fans can still support their clubs despite their clubs actively and wantingly trying to destroy not just the game in this country, but the game in general all around the world. They can all fuck off, sour grapes. I’m concerned about who we are owned about and honestly, I’m not fussed about going to games ever again, I’ll happily be an armchair fan watching and cheering on the team via TV and maybe, just maybe I’ll take the boys to the odd cup game, but for me I’m happy first of all that Ashley is gone (this is the victory) and secondly as bad as the SA regime is, this is their culture and has been for however long and it’s not up to me nor down to me to say hey, you can’t be doing that. Of course I don’t want to see people beheaded, gay people tortured, women have no rights etc. but they look at ‘us’ and don’t want us drinking, don’t want us being topless or whatever. It’s a clash of cultures and customs and religions and other shit. If we want SA to stop being a bad egg, it’s down to our government to say NO, we won’t deal with you unless you do x y and z and it’s upto companies like like FB, Starbucks or whoever to say NO you can’t buy a stake unless you do x y and z too. But that hasn’t, won’t and never will happen because it’s all about money/ It’s not down to NUFC fans, or me or you or any individual to say, sorry, you can’t come and buy our club unless you stop murdering journos or whatever. As AS said, it’s our club, they are just custodians. That’s my take, it’s always been our club and always will be because without the fans there is no club, just a few trade marks, player registrations and a fucking post code where some business is registered to. We also have to remember, the middle east are behind the western world in lots of ways and as much as we would like them to catch up ASAP, that again is not how the dynamics of the world works. In the 60s in America black boys and girls couldn’t go to white schools, or could eat in a restaurant or get a bus with white people. In the 40s, 6m Jews and others were murdered by the German state. We waged war in Iraq on lies. It wasn’t that long ago we would behead people here in England, hang them, torture them. Indeed our own stadium is built on the Gallows… Don’t throw stones in a glass house… It’s s good to have this discussion because it’s needed, but not at the doorstep of a football supporter who just wants to watch his/her team play a game of footy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leffe186 Posted October 9, 2021 Share Posted October 9, 2021 6 minutes ago, Foluwashola said: Fail to see why you should have to justify yourself to anyone or why it in anyway impinges on your 'moral purity'. We don't get the choice to change teams, for most it's an accident of birth. The politics of the owner(s) is an absolute irrelevance for the most part. You have the choice to walk away though. There’s never been a moral purity in being a football fan, though some Liverpool fans like to pretebd otherwise. It’s just that sometimes there are moral questions that are worth considering. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
geordiesteve710 Posted October 9, 2021 Share Posted October 9, 2021 7 minutes ago, leffe186 said: You have the choice to walk away though. There’s never been a moral purity in being a football fan, though some Liverpool fans like to pretebd otherwise. It’s just that sometimes there are moral questions that are worth considering. definitely. It's going to be an ongoing process as well, lets see how this all pans out in practice. My gut feeling is the Saudis will be silent partners trusting Staveley and the Reubens with the decision-making. But if not, and the club started engaging in activities I find offensive then there may be a point at which I walk away. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
loki679 Posted October 9, 2021 Share Posted October 9, 2021 I'm not really bothered tbh, there's worse countries in the world and really that's just the way the world is. I don't agree with a lot of the stuff they do but it's their business and if I was to boycott everything coming from a regime I disagree with then I'd basically never do anything. If the Saudi's have a revolution and it's sunshine and roses in the streets then more power to them but that's not got much to do with Newcastle beating Stoke 3-0 in the league cup. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deuce Posted October 9, 2021 Share Posted October 9, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, HaydnNUFC said: There's those out there who are of the idea that Newcastle fans should walk away from the club given these owners, which to me is mental. Just things I've seen online, sample size may well be small but just what I've seen. Is that really any different than the circumstances surrounding the formation of FC United of Manchester? Just saying, as I imagine many here would’ve sympathized with that decision. Edited October 9, 2021 by Tomato Deuce Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWN Posted October 9, 2021 Share Posted October 9, 2021 I'm avoiding this thread , nothing to do with football Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghandis Flip-Flop Posted October 9, 2021 Share Posted October 9, 2021 1 hour ago, christ said: Don’t get me wrong, I agree completely. I just thought it was interesting to tease out the small nugget of truth in the initial post. There’s an element of hypocrisy or willful ignorance around this whole subject. We in the West have been tricked by good old euphemism for decades now. Khashoggi's murder is rightly held up as horrific, but the U.K. and US have been carrying out extra-judicial killings on an almost daily basis for the past 30 years. We just call them targeted drone strikes. Ah but he was a journalist not a foreign combatant, why is Edward Snowden living in exile? many of the same people I’ve seen suddenly take an interest in football these past few days on my social media are the same who tweeted they didn’t believe Dr David Kelly or Jeffrey Epstein killed themselves. So if they believe the U.K. and US routinely kill their own citizens to protect the rich and powerful and then continue on living their lives without protest, what are they aghast at Saudi for? Being a bit shit at it and getting caught? For what it’s worth I am conflicted about this whole affair and would really rather not be owned by a brutal regime. But I can’t help but see the typical Nationalistic Western Exceptionalism written across swathes of the recent commentary around the takeover. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
maze Posted October 9, 2021 Share Posted October 9, 2021 Not bothered at all. I just enjoy it. I don’t feel shame, guilt or anything negative. I love it But I do understand the need for the top six to crawl out with their morale talk, I’d be scared too. But they can f*** right off. Finally, our time has come Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaydnNUFC Posted October 9, 2021 Share Posted October 9, 2021 6 minutes ago, Tomato Deuce said: Is that really any different than the circumstances surrounding the formation of FC United of Manchester? Just saying, as I imagine many here would’ve sympathized with that decision. I don't know enough about the Glazer takeover of Manchester United or FC United of Manchester to really comment, but I'm assuming that FC United was formed because of how they acquired Manchester United (I believe they borrowed against Man Utd's assets as opposed to using their own money) and how they were going to run the club rather than moral ambiguity about the Glazers and their money in question or condemnation from white collar journalists and fans of other clubs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
loki679 Posted October 9, 2021 Share Posted October 9, 2021 3 minutes ago, GWN said: I'm avoiding this thread , nothing to do with football You won't read this then since you're definitely avoiding this thread and not just posting to be a nob. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest HTT II Posted October 9, 2021 Share Posted October 9, 2021 10 minutes ago, loki679 said: I'm not really bothered tbh, there's worse countries in the world and really that's just the way the world is. I don't agree with a lot of the stuff they do but it's their business and if I was to boycott everything coming from a regime I disagree with then I'd basically never do anything. If the Saudi's have a revolution and it's sunshine and roses in the streets then more power to them but that's not got much to do with Newcastle beating Stoke 3-0 in the league cup. Steady on, as if we’d beat anyone in the League Cup! Fucking hell this takeover has turned peoples heads massively… Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Consortium of one Posted October 9, 2021 Share Posted October 9, 2021 The proof will be in the pudding. If the club is run responsibly. If the club benefits the the community. If women's football and girls youth football are given a proper go then all will be well. Believe me, with this takeover still in the wings I waited to see what came out of the release of 9/11 information. Because if it was shown that the Saudi's were complicit in those attacks I wouldn't be celebrating this takeover. Yes, there are civil rights issues. However, F1 and a host of other ventures tells me that this purchase is just part of the process. I'm ok with that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deuce Posted October 9, 2021 Share Posted October 9, 2021 27 minutes ago, HaydnNUFC said: I don't know enough about the Glazer takeover of Manchester United or FC United of Manchester to really comment, but I'm assuming that FC United was formed because of how they acquired Manchester United (I believe they borrowed against Man Utd's assets as opposed to using their own money) and how they were going to run the club rather than moral ambiguity about the Glazers and their money in question or condemnation from white collar journalists and fans of other clubs. I worded my previous poorly, as the circumstances leading up to the founding of FCOM were indeed quite different than what we’re looking at here. I guess my point is that I wouldn’t begrudge any supporter advocating a clean break from the club to protest the new ownership. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klaus Posted October 9, 2021 Share Posted October 9, 2021 1 hour ago, ManDoon said: I’m hoping someone with a bit of sense puts in a blanket ban on country flags. The last thing we need is that on Sky Yup though i doubt this will happen. It might even be worth NUST or other fan groups, putting statements out there, to at least recommend why there shouldn't be any flags in the ground. The last thing i want is Saudi using the club as a soft propaganda platform. Like it or not, sportswashing is about improving the image of Saudi on the global stage, and the match next Sunday will have a lot of international attention. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted October 9, 2021 Share Posted October 9, 2021 3 hours ago, Tiresias said: It's not that they are imposing their values, it is that they are trying to improve their reputation by getting involved in sport. Ultimately as horrible as it is to think of people who have been beaten for having sex outside marriage, for being gay etc, that is none of my business, plenty of misery elsewhe in the world. But to think we are being used as a tool to cover that sort of shit up is not ideal. And again, it feels I end up being stawmanned into a position I don't have. I don't think the sportwashing will work that well, I think it may in fact amplify human rights concerns not cover up. I also don't think whether they spend the money on us or not much will change because of it and I don't think they are unique, this is all ont eh league and not on us. But this is not cos I fear they will come impose their values here. I am worried because already people seem to think aaah they are our owners, all their opinions must be brilliant homophobia is cool lololol. They will say all teh right things, and then do differently at home than they do with us, because they are hypocrites. Lets not be the same. I don't think it's that at all. They clearly won't agree with a lot of our values, just as we don't agree with theirs. But football is a sport and it's a way of two different cultures meeting on common ground. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted October 9, 2021 Share Posted October 9, 2021 On the topic itself, I've made it clear on here from day one, I am 100% behind the Saudi takeover and absolutely delighted it's gone through. They will give us a club to be proud of again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted October 9, 2021 Share Posted October 9, 2021 Firstly I’m uncomfortable about the state of football, particularly the premier league. Football clubs should be community assets, not playthings of rich people. The PL itself is the biggest driving force behind this. Secondly I would rather the money for our club came from somewhere 100% clean, but I doubt that exists. I’m saddened by the fact that takeovers like this exist, or have to exist. But I’m still going to try my best to enjoy it. I think the best thing we can do is acknowledge this difficult situation and do our best to walk the line. It makes us look like idiots to pretend this dilemma doesn’t exist - but at the same time we’re not responsible for it. FWIW I don’t see questions about our new ownership as attacks on the fans (although obviously I haven’t read everything). It more seems like people raising this issue because this deal is in the news. That’s the job of people like Amnesty and we should welcome that we have people like that looking out for human rights. The other PL clubs objections deserve a special mention mind, they are shameless, ridiculous and comical at the same time. Cheeky fuckers should absolutely be told to fuck off. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ9 Posted October 9, 2021 Share Posted October 9, 2021 I’m happy about the takeover and am just going to try and enjoy the ride. Won’t be buying any shite relating to Saudi Arabia or dancing around with a tea towel on my head. The irony of all of this is that I think our fan base will have had more discussion and reflection on human rights over the past 18 months than they would have otherwise. Like someone else has said, I’m not going to feel like I have to justify my support for a club I’ve supported my entire lives. That being said, the Saudi regime is a fucking horrible murderous regime. So is the US by the way. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Linton Posted October 9, 2021 Share Posted October 9, 2021 Not comfortable with the back story like a lot of others, but let's not pretend if say the Glazers had the chance to sell Man United to the PIF their fans wouldn't have snapped your hand off (pun intended). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest HTT II Posted October 9, 2021 Share Posted October 9, 2021 5 minutes ago, alijmitchell said: I’m happy about the takeover and am just going to try and enjoy the ride. Won’t be buying any shite relating to Saudi Arabia or dancing around with a tea towel on my head. The irony of all of this is that I think our fan base will have had more discussion and reflection on human rights over the past 18 months than they would have otherwise. Like someone else has said, I’m not going to feel like I have to justify my support for a club I’ve supported my entire lives. That being said, the Saudi regime is a fucking horrible murderous regime. So is the US by the way. Every nation has its ‘issues’, we dress our own nation up as being one of the better ones because we respect gay rights, take the knee or whatever, but ultimately the people that run/own our nation are as barbaric and as greedy, morally bankrupt and as out of touch as they all are at the table of ‘nations’. It’s always always left down to the people, the mere mortals and individuals to take a stance and do what’s right or wrong and it’s always always us who are held countable for good or bad, right or wrong, when it should be those we elect and those in high power who should be held accountable and derided and called out, not for example some fat gravy stained Jawdee Toon fan wearing a joke shop Arab costume. It makes me more sick than actually what goes on in the likes of SA because it/they (the powers that be in the west for example) enable the likes of SA to get away with their crimes against humanity and then in turn, turn it around and somehow make it feel like, well, it’s all our fault because we support NUFC, drink a Starbucks, go on FB or whatever. Again, if we ALL want to stop the shit going on in say SA our government should say OK, you wanna deal with us, stop x y and z and the same applies to corporate companies. But ££££££ Anyway… Money, get away Get a good job with more pay And your O. K. Money, it's a gas Grab that cash with both hands And make a stash New car, caviar, four star daydream Think I'll buy me a football team Money get back I'm all right Jack Keep your hands off my stack Money, it's a hit Don't give me that Do goody good bullshit I'm in the hi-fidelity First class traveling set And I think I need a Lear jet Money, it's a crime Share it fairly But don't take a slice of my pie Money, so they say Is the root of all evil Today But if you ask for a rise It's no surprise that they're Giving none away Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gjohnson Posted October 9, 2021 Share Posted October 9, 2021 1 hour ago, Ghandis Flip-Flop said: There’s an element of hypocrisy or willful ignorance around this whole subject. We in the West have been tricked by good old euphemism for decades now. Khashoggi's murder is rightly held up as horrific, but the U.K. and US have been carrying out extra-judicial killings on an almost daily basis for the past 30 years. We just call them targeted drone strikes. Ah but he was a journalist not a foreign combatant, why is Edward Snowden living in exile? many of the same people I’ve seen suddenly take an interest in football these past few days on my social media are the same who tweeted they didn’t believe Dr David Kelly or Jeffrey Epstein killed themselves. So if they believe the U.K. and US routinely kill their own citizens to protect the rich and powerful and then continue on living their lives without protest, what are they aghast at Saudi for? Being a bit shit at it and getting caught? For what it’s worth I am conflicted about this whole affair and would really rather not be owned by a brutal regime. But I can’t help but see the typical Nationalistic Western Exceptionalism written across swathes of the recent commentary around the takeover. I made that point about Kelly's 'suicide' the other day. No way that wasn't and MI5/6 or higher job. Wanders into the woods and kills himself after being proved right that Iraq didn't have nuclear weapons....yeah right Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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