The "delighted Ashley has gone, but uncomfortable with Saudi ownership" thread

[Wallsendmag]

1 minute ago, Kid Icarus said:

Aye, but the point is that my real life and your real life aren't the same. You're saying real life is the majority alone and no one else, I'm just saying the minority against the owners make up a proportion of that real life.

 

As far as online communities go, N-O isn't too bad for compared to Twitter or RTG like you say.

 

Real life is real life though. Your friends, your family, your mates, the bloke in the pub, that's real. You know exactly who you're talking to.

Social media you don't really have a clue. You've got Sunderland fans pretending to be Newcastle fans (and vice versa) and people are basically just hiding behind a username.

[Kid Icarus]

3 minutes ago, Wallsendmag said:

 

Real life is real life though. Your friends, your family, your mates, the bloke in the pub, that's real. You know exactly who you're talking to.

Social media you don't really have a clue. You've got Sunderland fans pretending to be Newcastle fans (and vice versa) and people are basically just hiding behind a username.

That's true like, but personally I've met most of the regulars on here so it's not as much of an issue. 

 

 

Edited November 2, 2022 by Kid Icarus

[Wolfcastle]

I don't mind people having issues just so long, as pointed out previously, its consistent. You cant reasonably be hopping mad and obsessed in some cases with this one piece of Saudi investment and be much milder to not caring at all about other investments from them and countries with similar charges against them.

That's what gets up people noses.

Personally I don't feel any different about things now as before. I don't approve of their and many other countries practices and wish they'd change but wasn't at activist levels so there's no contradiction.

Who boycotted the last World cup because of Putin's nuclear murders in our own country for example.

 

 

Edited November 2, 2022 by Wolfcastle

[Kid Icarus]

8 minutes ago, Wallsendmag said:

 

Totally. And by the same token if they ran the club like Mike Ashley all these Sunderland fans screaming "hewman rights" and "Yemen" wouldn't actually care less about any of that. That's how it works.

FWIW as much as I'd rather not have our owners and respect anyone wasting their time and energy trying to do something about it from a moral perspective, the Mackems who use Yemeni kids as a political football because their objection essentially boils down to it being because it's us potentially becoming successful is genuinely disgusting.

 

Delaney and plenty of the other like-for-like "thee not me" bellends can get fucked as well.

[Yorkie]

12 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said:

That's true like, but personally I've met most of the regulars on here so it's not as much of an issue. 

 

 

 

 

@Theregulars commiserations on your recent amputation

[The Prophet]

2 hours ago, Whitley mag said:

There is no divide in the real world mate just with a few conflicted individuals who want to weigh us all down with their moral dilemmas.

 

As for being educated what a load of patronising shite, I’m fully aware of what goes on over there and don’t need some condescending souls taking the moral high ground preaching to me when I go to the match.

 

They don’t want to educate anyone they want the Saudis out of the club, try squaring that off with Tyneside at the minute. Everyone has the right to protest but when fans openly voted in favour of these owners, don’t expect a free ride when your aim is to kick them out. The world is full of protests and counter protests, those of us who fully back PIF’s involvement have every right to question the motives of these individuals and what they are hoping to achieve, which is far more than simply raising awareness as some claim on here.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Your use of "patronising" is ironic, given your flippant views towards others' moral and world views.

 

Certain fans may want PIF out of the club, others may be merely uncomfortable with a state instrument owning us. Others may be perfectly happy with the ownership. Everyone is different and there's no right or wrong answer. It's more productive to have the discussion than turn fans against one another.

[Whitley mag]

13 minutes ago, The Prophet said:

 

Your use of "patronising" is ironic, given your flippant views towards others' moral and world views.

 

Certain fans may want PIF out of the club, others may be merely uncomfortable with a state instrument owning us. Others may be perfectly happy with the ownership. Everyone is different and there's no right or wrong answer. It's more productive to have the discussion than turn fans against one another.

Hold on this group have said they want PIF out of the club not that they want to engage the owners in any discussion, my stance is simple i oppose that completely.

 

They are fully entitled to have the moral and world views they like, however I’m not the one going on about educating other people, which is very patronising in my opinion. 
 

 

[Kid Icarus]

Whitley Mag, at some point you need to stop leaning on this idea that you're John Everyman and everyone outside of here is the same as you like 

[Johnny]

3 hours ago, Whitley mag said:

There is no divide in the real world mate just with a few conflicted individuals who want to weigh us all down with their moral dilemmas.

 

As for being educated what a load of patronising shite, I’m fully aware of what goes on over there and don’t need some condescending souls taking the moral high ground preaching to me when I go to the match.

 

They don’t want to educate anyone they want the Saudis out of the club, try squaring that off with Tyneside at the minute. Everyone has the right to protest but when fans openly voted in favour of these owners, don’t expect a free ride when your aim is to kick them out. The world is full of protests and counter protests, those of us who fully back PIF’s involvement have every right to question the motives of these individuals and what they are hoping to achieve, which is far more than simply raising awareness as some claim on here.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Especially the "they want the Saudis out of the club" line. That's the end goal, i belive for this "group" of "fans". 

 

And I never meet fans that dont celebrate the takeover too.

[HaydnNUFC]

Some (these protesting fans, other fans etc) want the Saudis out of the club because they don't want state ownership in football, which is an idea I agree with. State ownership or financial arms of states should not own football clubs, but if they forced the Saudis to sell a la Chelsea then they'd have to force the Emiratis out of Man City also. But that won't change because football has become evermore fucked in more ways than one since 1992 so that this is an issue but we're just happening to benefit from it which is hard to hold against us given the previous 14 years.

 

Defending or deflecting from Saudi on social media though I'll never get on board with. That 'we should improve society somewhat' meme fits perfectly to that.

 

I do however find the sanctimonious nature of people who purely use KSA's record etc as a stick to hit NUFC fans with, Eddie Howe with a tad reprehensible though. That French journalist (can't remember his name) who recently had responded to Howe talking about how he'd rather not harangue officials on the touchline by making it a dig about the owners; our fans get accused of 'whataboutery' quite a lot but that's one of the biggest examples of it I've seen. Delaney is a wanker but he's been consistent and overrall is actually a decent journalist (I recommend his recent piece about Osasuna, good read). Holt is a cunt given the way he's gone on despite his past statements about Hearn & Joshua and state money. Panja lost quite a bit of credibility after he conveniently 'ran out of time' to ask Kylian Mbappe, the face of Qatari owned PSG and the Qatar World Cup, questions about human rights issues which he's consistantly thrown at us and Howe. Lastly, the mackems? Pffft. It's only because its us. If in the near future we're competing with Man City for the title and Man City pipped us to it they'd absolutely revel in it. If we won it though they'd go on and on about KSA and how much of a disgrace we are etc. This is in addition to when in 2012 they celebrated Man City's first title at the Stadium of Shite to wind up Man Utd fans in the away end. Guess UAE human rights problems don't means as much as the ones in KSA over in Sunderland.

 

 

Edited November 2, 2022 by HaydnNUFC

[Johnny]

32 minutes ago, The Prophet said:

 

Your use of "patronising" is ironic, given your flippant views towards others' moral and world views.

 

Certain fans may want PIF out of the club, others may be merely uncomfortable with a state instrument owning us. Others may be perfectly happy with the ownership. Everyone is different and there's no right or wrong answer. It's more productive to have the discussion than turn fans against one another.

Yes I agree everyone is different. But let be honest for a moment, the fans whot want PIF out from the club and uncomfortable that PIF (not the Saudi state)owned us is very small (almost non-existant that I never met one in real life) compared to those that happy and celebrate the takeover.

 

 

Edited November 2, 2022 by Johnny

[Chapo]

Not gonna lie I find the whole thing a bit hollow now but do get occasional joy watching us win and play well. 

[Hovagod]

2 hours ago, teohgk said:

It’s ok for the West to send troops over to middle east and invade countries causing death of thousands citizens , but it’s not ok for the middle east country to send money over to UK investing football club.

 

It’s not okay, though, and I doubt the protesters think it is.

[Kid Icarus]

Newcastle fans didn't 'vote in favour of these owners' they voted in favour of a takeover of these owners FROM Mike Ashley. Big difference 

[The Prophet]

9 minutes ago, Johnny said:

Especially the "they want the Saudis out of the club" line. That's the end goal, i belive for this "group" of "fans". 

 

And I never meet fans that dont celebrate the takeover too.

 

Hang on though you can:

 

Be a fan of Newcastle United 

Be delighted that Mike Ashley has sold the club 

Not want our majority owners to be the sovereign wealth fund of a nation who routinely abuses human rights 

 

It's not a straightforward issue and it's why some are conflicted.

[Theregulars]

2 hours ago, Yorkie said:

 

@Theregulars commiserations on your recent amputation

It’s been a struggle but somehow I’m not worse at football for it 

[Whitley mag]

26 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said:

Newcastle fans didn't 'vote in favour of these owners' they voted in favour of a takeover of these owners FROM Mike Ashley. Big difference 

Come on who’s being John Everyman now ? The vote was clearly in relation to PIF taking over -

 

‘Our member survey on the matter received almost 3,400 responses and this represents a significant number of Newcastle United fans.

The headline figure is a massive 96.7% of those members surveyed have reported they’re in favour of the reported takeover by Amanda Staveley, the Rueben Brothers and the Public Investment Fund of Saudi Arabia’.

[relámpago blanco]

2 hours ago, Yorkie said:

 

@Theregulars commiserations on your recent amputation

You've had that lined up for years haven't you? I bet this is one of the greatest days of you life.

[Yorkie]

One of em aye!

[St. Maximin]

Tbh I love supporting the club hundreds of times more than I did under most of the Ashley era, but even then I will always feel somewhat uneasy at our (majority) owners. At the same time you may find some fans who couldn’t care less and some who are deeply uncomfortable even if few and far between. Each to their own really and there’s no morally right or wrong position to be. 
 

You don’t have to love your owners and like I’d wager the vast majority of our fans, I feel no allegiance to KSA or need to defend their human rights record. It’s sad when I see people who do, but I think these are a small minority and unfortunately every club will have its share of moron supporters for one reason or another and this just happens to be a way to demonstrate it. You can’t change people sadly. I also find it odd how many of our fans get defensive to criticism of KSA’s sports investment, but saying that many people do it hypocritically and can use it to attack the fans, so to an extent it’s understandable. 
 

At the same time as feeling uneasy about human rights, for all the concerns about ‘sportswashing’ (rightly or wrongly), I have no doubt this takeover will have positive impacts in KSA and ultimately I don’t see that as bad. I think it’s also fair to point out we have multiple people (UK and KSA) that must have some direct or indirect involvement in how the club rather than simply being Bin Salman’s. I have little knowledge of the PIF employees’ views on human rights, but personally I don’t expect them to all be evil people with a moral compass to reflect his. 

[Kid Icarus]

42 minutes ago, Whitley mag said:

Come on who’s being John Everyman now ? The vote was clearly in relation to PIF taking over -

 

‘Our member survey on the matter received almost 3,400 responses and this represents a significant number of Newcastle United fans.

The headline figure is a massive 96.7% of those members surveyed have reported they’re in favour of the reported takeover by Amanda Staveley, the Rueben Brothers and the Public Investment Fund of Saudi Arabia’.

Yeah and being in favour of the takeover going ahead and being in favour of the owners is not the same thing. That's just a basic fact.

 

You can't ignore the context, that we were all absolutely desperate to get rid of Ashley.

[HaydnNUFC]

If I could get rid of the Saudi baggage tomorrow and have just Reubens and Staveley and her husband in charge, I would tbh. But that's not going to happen so here we are.

 

Am I repulsed by what goes on in KSA? Aye.

Will that affect my own personal support for Newcastle United? Nar, because I was here before them and I'll be here after they've gone.

Will I ever try and defend or deflect from KSA when someone criticises them? Absolutely not.

Will I defend NUFC fans who get attacked for merely supporting their football club that they always have done? Absolutely.

 

 

Edited November 3, 2022 by HaydnNUFC

[Johnny]

Well,

27 minutes ago, HaydnNUFC said:

If I could get rid of the Saudi baggage tomorrow and have just Reubens and Staveley and her husband in charge, I would tbh. But that's not going to happen so here we are.

 

Am I repulsed by what goes on in KSA? Aye.

Will that affect my own personal support for Newcastle United? Nar, because I was here before them and I'll be here after they've gone.

Will I ever try and defend or deflect from KSA when someone criticises them? Absolutely not.

Will I defend NUFC fans who get attacked for merely supporting their football club that they always have done? Absolutely.

 

 

 

 

That line isn't true though. The most probable thing is that they will outlast everyone of us. PIF won't sell, as long as the club make profit. Or, to play devil advocate, as long as the club can sportwash Saudi's image.

 

IMHO, we should accept the fact that our club is not "our" club in traditional sense anymore. It's now a global brand. If the plan is working as intended by the PIF i.e we became a succesful club in eruope, they won't care about us local fans anymore. PIF wont care if the local stop supporting the club as long as globally NUFC still makes money for them. Just like what the Murdoch does in Manchester right now.

 

 

Edited November 3, 2022 by Johnny

[elbee909]

Is there much evidence of sportswashing really working here? All I ever see is negative stuff highlighted more due to NUFC ownership. Which is absolutely fair enough.

 

 

Edited November 3, 2022 by elbee909

[Super Duper Branko Strupar]

7 minutes ago, Johnny said:

Well,

 

That line isn't true though. The most probable thing is that they will outlast everyone of us. PIF won't sell, as long as the club make profit. Or, to play devil advocate, as long as the club can sportwash Saudi's image.

 

IMHO, we should accept the fact that our club is not "our" club in traditional sense anymore. It's now a global brand. If the plan is working as intended by the PIF i.e we became a succesful club in eruope, they won't care about us local fans anymore. PIF wont care if the local stop supporting the club as long as globally NUFC still makes money for them. Just like what the Murdoch does in Manchester right now.