STM Posted August 28, 2023 Share Posted August 28, 2023 1 minute ago, Yorkie said: Still don't think the subs were that mad and the logic was perfectly sound. Yesterday was a bottle issue, for which Howe still takes some responsibility. We didn't look comfortable against ten men in terms of the mentality and tactical approach, that absolutely has to be addressed on the training ground and manager's office. Read my post in the match thread. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pata Posted August 28, 2023 Share Posted August 28, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Yorkie said: Still don't think the subs were that mad and the logic was perfectly sound. Yesterday was a bottle issue, for which Howe still takes some responsibility. We didn't look comfortable against ten men in terms of the mentality and tactical approach, that absolutely has to be addressed on the training ground and manager's office. Yeah, more that I think about it there’s reallly nothing wrong with the subs. He brought in good players that many wanted to start this game and players he took off seemed to either be tiring or got injured. It was just one of those days where we couldn’t score that second goal to seal it off and stars aligned for them to score twice at the end. We should have been more aggressive with the man advantage but it’s hard to put that only on Howe. It’s a devastating result against a team that everyone hates but that’s football, freak results can happen. Edited August 28, 2023 by Pata Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Jinx Posted August 28, 2023 Share Posted August 28, 2023 Our game plan for changing things up simply can’t be.. Wilson and Barnes on. I’m still angry about this today. Even before they scored, we’d already retreated back.. they changed something and we were totally oblivious to it until it was too late. He was out-thought by Klopp as the game wore on and it didn’t look like we believed we could or should win. He deserves plenty of time to get that right but it’s the first alarm bell I’ve really had with him as a coach with us. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcmk Posted August 28, 2023 Share Posted August 28, 2023 20 minutes ago, Dr Jinx said: Our game plan for changing things up simply can’t be.. Wilson and Barnes on. I’m still angry about this today. Even before they scored, we’d already retreated back.. they changed something and we were totally oblivious to it until it was too late. He was out-thought by Klopp as the game wore on and it didn’t look like we believed we could or should win. He deserves plenty of time to get that right but it’s the first alarm bell I’ve really had with him as a coach with us. Alarm bell, really? With better finishing we kill the game off. We had 80% of the possession until the subs IIRC. We hit the bar and the post. The goals they scored were individual mistakes which were taken advantage of by some ridiculous finishing. It was a crazy result, but I don't see why blame is mainly on EH. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wandy Posted August 28, 2023 Share Posted August 28, 2023 Love the bloke but that decision to sub off Gordon and Tonali was diabolical. We had them where we wanted them and the 2nd goal looked like it was coming. But to take the player off who was, at that point, man of the match was ludicrous and basically handed them the momentum. It felt like a substution simply for the sake of it with no logic behind it. He has loads of credit in the bank and deserves the benefit of any doubt this season but the fact that we have lost all of the crucial showdown matches against the big teams where expectations were high...ie cup final plus the last two games....is a worry. I could see us making it to another final but losing again, unfortunately. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conjo Posted August 28, 2023 Share Posted August 28, 2023 I don't really care about the subs. More the mentality of the team overall. I wanted subs on sooner, and more intensity in our game. Neither Barnes, Longstaff or Wilson really busted a gut after coming on. Whether it's down to instructions, the players or a combination we'll never know. Just hope we see a (cringe) 110% effort against Brighton next for more than 20 minutes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
STM Posted August 28, 2023 Share Posted August 28, 2023 In hindsight, something simple like swapping Isak and Gordon would have been killer. Isak would have given TAA a terrible time and Gordon would have had the hustle for the defenders. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted August 28, 2023 Share Posted August 28, 2023 10 minutes ago, STM said: In hindsight, something simple like swapping Isak and Gordon would have been killer. Isak would have given TAA a terrible time and Gordon would have had the hustle for the defenders. One thing about Howe is he’s pretty predictable. He hasn’t programmed that move yet. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
arnonel Posted August 28, 2023 Share Posted August 28, 2023 I dont blame Howe for anything. Players on the pitch are more than capable of closing out the game. Just played with too much fear. Was driving me nuts our centre backs couldnt find a midfielder. Anderson was constantly showing for the ball and actually got frustrated at points. We would just pass between the back four constantly. Barnes should have sealed off the game. 2 on 1 and he bottled it. Scored that, and everyone on here would have been ecstatic with magician Howe. Fine margins Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lish007 Posted August 28, 2023 Share Posted August 28, 2023 Just also having a little read of Klopp's bio. It pissed me off when 'pool fans go on about relegating Bournemouth so on and so forth. Klopp manager Mainz 05 after playing for them for a number of years and sealed them promotion. He then relegated them and left. Joined Dortmund, guided them to a title within 3 years and a UEFA CL final within 4. Then he joined Liverpool and we all know what he does there. Eddie hasn't really had a dissimilar story. Wasn't the best player (due to his injuries) in Bournemouth but then managed them and guided them to 3?? Promotions. Eventual relegation from the PL resulted in his resignation. Move forward to Newcastle. Saves us from relegation and then takes us our first cup final in however long and a top 4 finish, back into the CL after 20 years. So we spent *some* money after years of no investment .. literally it was just a team that could compete!!!! I mean... If Klopp does not respect Howe in anyway shape or form, then honestly he needs to look in the mirror. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaqen Posted August 28, 2023 Share Posted August 28, 2023 3 hours ago, Wandy said: Love the bloke but that decision to sub off Gordon and Tonali was diabolical. We had them where we wanted them and the 2nd goal looked like it was coming. But to take the player off who was, at that point, man of the match was ludicrous and basically handed them the momentum. It felt like a substution simply for the sake of it with no logic behind it. He has loads of credit in the bank and deserves the benefit of any doubt this season but the fact that we have lost all of the crucial showdown matches against the big teams where expectations were high...ie cup final plus the last two games....is a worry. I could see us making it to another final but losing again, unfortunately. Man U, Spurs and Brighton at home last season were viewed as crucial showdown matches and we absolutely battered all 3 man Don't think some folk appreciate how much he's overachieving with that squad. Would love to see any of the other top managers he apparently keeps getting outclassed against try finish top 4 with the likes of Miggy, Burn and Longstaff starting every week. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonas Posted August 28, 2023 Share Posted August 28, 2023 I do wonder had the modern fan/twitter/forums been around back then how much Keegan and Sir Bobby would have been questioned and slagged off after losing games and about what a terrible look that was, forgetting what they'd done, dismissing what they could do, in the heat of the moment of a bitter defeat. We'll end up having a good season and continuing to move forward and there will be more losses. Small price to pay and part of football. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oregon_Geordie Posted August 28, 2023 Share Posted August 28, 2023 3 hours ago, Conjo said: I don't really care about the subs. More the mentality of the team overall. I wanted subs on sooner, and more intensity in our game. Neither Barnes, Longstaff or Wilson really busted a gut after coming on. Whether it's down to instructions, the players or a combination we'll never know. Just hope we see a (cringe) 110% effort against Brighton next for more than 20 minutes. Agree with this, said it yesterday, It was attitude over subs. We were rocking before Tonali and Gordon went off. Lost our impetus and started playing too many sideways slopping passes. If Barnes had squared it the subs would never be discussed. Tonali was getting loose also before he came off. We just fucked it up. But we never looked great the whole second halve to me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prophet Posted August 28, 2023 Share Posted August 28, 2023 I feel like I've posted this a lot, but Gordon was knackered and had just pulled up with cramp for the second time in quick succession. There was nothing wrong with that particular sub. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinny Green Balls Posted August 28, 2023 Share Posted August 28, 2023 1 hour ago, Jaqen said: Man U, Spurs and Brighton at home last season were viewed as crucial showdown matches and we absolutely battered all 3 man Don't think some folk appreciate how much he's overachieving with that squad. Would love to see any of the other top managers he apparently keeps getting outclassed against try finish top 4 with the likes of Miggy, Burn and Longstaff starting every week. Well said. It's confounding how relentlessly selective a few have been with their arguments. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andycap Posted August 28, 2023 Share Posted August 28, 2023 After we went 1 up the lack of quality was there for all to see Miggys shooting on sight instead of slipping in better positioned players. Brunos laziness on the ball burns reluctancy to get the ball down the flank at the earliest opportunity. In reality we should of had them penned in for most the second halve. Im not gonna blame howe if the players aren't doing the job properly. The subs is up for debate but howe shouldn't need to hold there hands to get them to beat 10 men. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghandis Flip-Flop Posted August 28, 2023 Share Posted August 28, 2023 I tell you one thing I can only imagine how many piss stained sheets would’ve been out on the line, after the Coventry defeat in Keegan's second PL game in charge for us, were the modern internet fan a thing back then. ?? Seriously anybody reading too much into any team's performances before about ten games have been played, needs to give their heads a serious wobble. Is this the first year you started watching football or something? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bally21 Posted August 28, 2023 Share Posted August 28, 2023 Eddie maybe got some things wrong yesterday, but he is a good manager. I'm not saying he's should be immune from criticism, but for me its a bad day at the office, learn, move on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Away Toon Posted August 28, 2023 Share Posted August 28, 2023 He is a good manager but whether he's the great manager we are going to need we will have to wait and see. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prophet Posted August 28, 2023 Share Posted August 28, 2023 (edited) He's been pretty great so far like. Edited August 28, 2023 by The Prophet Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinny Green Balls Posted August 28, 2023 Share Posted August 28, 2023 18 minutes ago, The Prophet said: He's been pretty great so far like. Away Toon is a lost cause, man. Seemingly Incapable of admitting that he was absolutely insufferable, not to mention utterly wrong, in the early days of Howe’s reign. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaydnNUFC Posted August 28, 2023 Share Posted August 28, 2023 50 minutes ago, Vinny Green Balls said: Away Toon is a lost cause, man. Seemingly Incapable of admitting that he was absolutely insufferable, not to mention utterly wrong, in the early days of Howe’s reign. Fantastic. On 15/01/2022 at 17:01, Away Toon said: Maybe a slight overreaction to that result, but Howe is completely out of his depth and should never have been given the job, Trippier is way way past his best and his positional play is really not very good, Wood well we knew he was limited but that performance was so innocuous he might as well not have played. We have two weeks to buy a new team and changing the manager wouldn't do us any harm. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
relámpago blanco Posted August 28, 2023 Share Posted August 28, 2023 Ridiculous some of the nonsense in here. We would have been relegated without him and the squad last season had no business qualifying for the CL. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lotus Posted August 28, 2023 Share Posted August 28, 2023 We were incredibly slow with the ball and barely switched the ball from one side to the other, something you should always do against 10 men. Do that at pace and they’ll tire and you’ll get an overload. I’m convinced that’s what Eddie wanted because that’s what any manger would’ve wanted. It’s just that our players, pretty much collectively played completely within themselves. Perhaps on some subconscious level the players think they’ve ‘arrived’. With any luck Sunday’s result will disavow them of that notion. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted August 28, 2023 Share Posted August 28, 2023 (edited) Think some credit has to go to Liverpool for stopping those quick balls to the wingers. We were moving it side to side but the final pass, particularly to Gordon, was often blocked off. Edited August 28, 2023 by AyeDubbleYoo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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