Eddie Howe

[toon25]

1 hour ago, Cf said:

 

I feel like I bring this up often but what exactly has de Zerbi achieved apart from having Brighton at or about where Potter left them?

Likewise with Ange tbh

[aussiemag]

2 minutes ago, toon25 said:

Likewise with Ange tbh

Ange has actually won trophies at every club/nation he has managed prior to Spurs. He has then taken over Spurs who were a rabble, lost a world class number 9 and transformed their style to have them challenging for top 4. It’s early  days at Spurs, but he’s a good manager and has probably achieved more than Howe at this stage in their respective careers. Howe being a lot younger. 

[TheBrownBottle]

10 minutes ago, aussiemag said:

Ange has actually won trophies at every club/nation he has managed prior to Spurs. He has then taken over Spurs who were a rabble, lost a world class number 9 and transformed their style to have them challenging for top 4. It’s early  days at Spurs, but he’s a good manager and has probably achieved more than Howe at this stage in their respective careers. Howe being a lot younger. 

Oof … I think Howe’s achievements at Bournemouth comfortably outrank Postecoglou’s so far.  Winning the league with Celtic isn’t exactly a challenge - winning the second division with Bournemouth is definitely more difficult than that.  Winning the Asian Cup is … I mean, Qatar just won back to back titles despite being a city-state.  

[Amir_9]

Howe is the best coach I have seen at NUFC (in my lifetime as a supporter since 2006, having surpassed Rafa) in terms of what he's accomplished here so far and what his skill ceiling/potential is..

 

Which is why I want him to succeed more than anyone and have a long legacy here. Having said that, he is not immune from certain criticism for some things this year so far (granted not all his fault). I very much look forward to what next season will be like with him still being here. He has earnt it.

 

I must say that although he clearly has the ability to learn and adapt (man came with this hanging over his head - "relegated Bournemouth, his teams can't defend" and had us join best defence in the league last year with a relatively cheap back 4), this year his starting-11 squad management has been hit and miss, even with injuries taken into consideration, its not that the weeks of having a subs bench that resembled no subs bench are lost on me or anything. Certain things that stand out are the persistence with Burn (who other teams clearly view as a weak link now), bringing Willock and Murphy back too early after injury, the Lewis Hall mystery etc.

 

 

Edited February 11 by Amir_9

[Geordie Ahmed]

27 minutes ago, Amir_9 said:

Howe is the best coach I have seen at NUFC (in my lifetime as a supporter since 2006, having surpassed Rafa) in terms of what he's accomplished here so far and what his skill ceiling/potential is..

 

Which is why I want him to succeed more than anyone and have a long legacy here. Having said that, he is not immune from certain criticism for some things this year so far (granted not all his fault). I very much look forward to what next season will be like with him still being here. He has earnt it.

 

I must say that although he clearly has the ability to learn and adapt (man came with this hanging over his head - "relegated Bournemouth, his teams can't defend" and had us join best defence in the league last year with a relatively cheap back 4), this year his starting-11 squad management has been hit and miss, even with injuries taken into consideration, its not that the weeks of having a subs bench that resembled no subs bench are lost on me or anything. Certain things that stand out are the persistence with Burn (who other teams clearly view as a weak link now), bringing Willock and Murphy back too early after injury, the Lewis Hall mystery etc.

 

 

 

 

I take the point about Burn but there are times we see the value of Burn, even today the second half he had a very good game.

 

As for Willock, he got fit and his minutes were managed fairly well (featured in 6 games) and then his injury reoccurred. A player being brought back too sign usually gets injured almost immediately.

 

With Murphy he didn't bring him back too early, not sure why this is often used as a stick to beat Howe with, the injury already happened. By playing him, all that happened was surgery was delayed by a week. At the time it happened, the option was to operate and he misses about 12 weeks or can continue playing and there is a chance he can get a number of games without it popping out again but as soon as it does then surgery was necessary and the recovery period was the same 12 weeks that was mentioned. 

[SUPERTOON]

7 hours ago, KaKa said:

 

There's a fair few that just can't see this.

 

I really think a fair few on here really just ought to go ahead and support Man City and enjoy their lives.

 

All the talk about our players not being technical enough, how we need more control of games, how we shouldn't be losing to this or that team, us not spending enough money, the squad not being good enough quickly enough, going on about us being the richest club in the world and so we should act like it ... etc etc etc.

 

They are just so desperate to be Man City and so why not just support them?

 

Instead they remain and complain constantly about everything that isn't as it is at Man City all the time.

 

 

 

 

 

How does fans wanting to see more technical players mean we want to be like Man City ? As for spending more money, don’t think anyone has criticised the club for this at all. It’s more aimed at FFP and it’s a very fair argument.

[Ikon]

Just now, SUPERTOON said:

How does fans wanting to see more technical players mean we want to be like Man City ? As for spending more money, don’t think anyone has criticised the club for this at all. It’s more aimed at FFP and it’s a very fair argument.

Thought the same. It’s a football forum. You should be able to discuss good and bad things. Weaknesses and strengths and everything in between. There’s a tiny minority that are hyperbole and foolish and say stupid and unreasonable things and “demand” too much and not making valid arguments. It’s nice to discuss what we can improve and wish to see to evolve and become even better. I think that’s what the club and everyone involved wish to do as well. It’s also perfectly normal in football to question things if it’s reasonable and valid arguments with a point and some thought behind. It’s also normal to question (discuss) things when it isn’t going well as it’s to give praise when it does go well. As long as it’s on a respectable level and not just shouting shite without a leg to stand on. It’s football, it’s a part of it. 

[ExiledGeordie]

7 hours ago, Beren said:

 

Well, firstly - I appreciate the non-aggro response, I don't venture into this forum that often - nice to know there's still reasoned discussion to be had  To be clear though, I neither expect or demand perfection from a manager. I don't care much at all about one-off mistakes, errors of judgement, bad days at the office etc.

 

Some have suggested "we don't demand a team that wins, we demand a team that tries" has been forgotten, or was never sincere. I still agree with the statement. But, for me, "trying" is the minimum bar for the club - and probably not that aspirational. The Ashley era had a super regressive impact on the club psyche IMO - I struggle to get behind the idea that as long as you give it your all, if it doesn't come off, you throw your hands up in the air and say "it wasn't meant to be".

 

My "want" is success and trophies, and I'm not in the slightest bit ashamed to say that out loud. I'm firmly middle-aged, and I'd love to see Newcastle win a trophy before I get off. I have probably now shed the bulk of the sentimentality I had as a younger fan. (I think it died when Hughton left the club, who ultimately had a lower ceiling than Howe but similarly salvaged a broken NUFC and returned it to top flight football and restored dignity, togetherness and pride - his departure was horrible ).

 

I'm not desperate to see the back of Howe or anything. I don't want to get too HTT about it, so I'll just say this: the scale of positive impact he has brought to the club leaves any negative impact imperceptible to the naked eye.

 

BUT - I do think it's worth exploring other options if they improve our chances of winning a trophy. 

 

Those chances are probably better with a manager who can grow/adapt, and I am concerned about about Howe's continued intransigence about not using his squad/substitutes (even when his players are dropping like flies), his unfathomable loyalty to BDB in open games, and not evolving the team's style of play away from outworking opponents (which feels even less sustainable in the long term this season, than it did last season).* These are becoming long-term trends, not isolated issues.

 

* -  In his defence, I'm sure his and the club's summer plans have been blown to smithereens by Tonali and the cavalcade of injuries that followed, but there is a fair bit that has been in his control which has left me really confused. But, Tonali and Joelinton being done for the season, and Longstaff looking a shadow of himself from last year are absolute hammerblows.

 

Zooming out, I do think Newcastle are in a really good position to break into the elite with their squad and set-up, but with FFP and Old Money teams seeking to put up more barriers to entry to join the elite - I don't assume that the window for NUFC to capitalise on its position of relative strength will last forever. 

 

I think of the likes of Bruno and Isak - these incredible transformative talents - not just in terms of having their heads turned if they don't get European football - but also just getting fucking burnt out playing this attritional style of football that wears away their bodies. There's no guarantee whatsoever last season wasn't the highwater mark for the next decade.  I very much hope not, but the talk of "last year being ahead of schedule" feels like a throwback to a different era of football. IMO, you spike into the elite really quickly, or you get stripped to the bone in the summer by Old Money. Sometimes both. 

 

 

 

Thanks I think 
 

 

 

If he were to leave for England in the summer, I wouldn't be indifferent but I also don't currently view him in the light of being the sure thing who can take us to the next level. I see him as a great young coach, but flawed (warts on show this year!), with the potential for growth. I could see there being other great candidates who would be attracted to the job and could do a great job too though - so it's not like Pep Guardiola leaving.

 

I will say Howe is a really classy ambassador for the club, and has built a good relationship with the fans - and I don't underestimate the value of that (I very well remember the Pardews, Bruces etc) but it is replicable (Hughton, Benitez etc) and I don't think it's as irreplaceable as it feels right now, maybe. It feels like gold dust post-Ashley though, which makes sense, but I don't see why it can't be normalised. Maybe I'm an idealist.
 

 

 

Sorry to disappoint mate.

I enjoyed reading all that. I agree Howe’s been hamstrung by injuries and the disaster that’s been the Tonali’s situation. I’m interested to see what he does with a full squad again and with some summer signings. But I agree I’d like to see him become more adaptable with his play because of some of the reasons you’ve mentioned (such as burn out and squad utilisation).

 

Next season will be very interesting to see how he does. I’m happy for him to stay for a few seasons yet to see him grow in the role but part of me does also feel like we might have to upgrade eventually to take the team to the next level. 

[jack j]

Nobody jumps to the defence of their own quicker than an aussie does

[Andy]

9 hours ago, James said:

 

Trippier is about as good a defender as Burn. I’ve seen him get done quite a few times, but in actual fact Schar is better at coming across and helping than Botman is. That’s one of the reasons.

 

However the main reason is that Trippier is one of the most creative players in the world, which helps us pin the opposition back on that side.

 

 

 

This is why the best teams generally play with two attack minded full backs, not defensive minded ones. For me, we should be looking to add threat down the left hand side so we don't become predictable in our attacking patterns, this would help pin teams back. 

 

Yes you're going to still see players like Trippier and Livramento get caught out, but Burn gets caught out anyway, and adding an additional attacking dimension and dragging us up the pitch far outweighs that. 

 

Ideally you find an athletic midfielder who is capable of filling the holes that are left, so you don't need to rely on this "Dan Burn fills in at CB when Trippier goes forward" idea. 

[aussiemag]

45 minutes ago, jack j said:

Nobody jumps to the defence of their own quicker than an aussie does

 
? I’d much prefer Howe to have a better career at NUFC.  

[Tiresias]

I don't think it's outrageous to ponder if howe can be upgraded it's just i think the are huge benefits to sticking to a manager and building club around their vision, see the benefits arsenal have got from sticking with the lego cunt when could easily have been sacked first few seasons. Continuity in how we play and team spirit are rewards. Howe very clearly still has huge buy in from the dressing room and that's important and shouldn't be taken for granted.

 

What impressed me about howe was he had changed things from his Bournemouth time, and what i want from him is evident he is learning and gets more proactive with in game management. 

 

I too want to win things but also feel last season got everyone dreaming that maybe it wasn't such a long term plan that the owners set out that we can build rome in a day. We can't, we've paid a heavy price for last season's exertions and even then we have had some fabulous results and games even if they haven't strung together into an impressive campaign. I think there's plenty of life in Howe yet, i do wonder if there will be a ceiling and we have to get a pep style superstar genius manager in to make final steps but i don't think that's yet and i don't think there's any need for vitriol even if the Dan burn obsession is annoying.

 

 

Edited February 11 by Tiresias

[Gallowgate Toon]

1 hour ago, Andy said:

 

This is why the best teams generally play with two attack minded full backs, not defensive minded ones. For me, we should be looking to add threat down the left hand side so we don't become predictable in our attacking patterns, this would help pin teams back. 

 

Yes you're going to still see players like Trippier and Livramento get caught out, but Burn gets caught out anyway, and adding an additional attacking dimension and dragging us up the pitch far outweighs that. 

 

Ideally you find an athletic midfielder who is capable of filling the holes that are left, so you don't need to rely on this "Dan Burn fills in at CB when Trippier goes forward" idea. 

All of the current top 3 are often playing at least one CB in at least one of the FB positions, tbf.

[The College Dropout]

1 hour ago, Andy said:

 

This is why the best teams generally play with two attack minded full backs, not defensive minded ones. For me, we should be looking to add threat down the left hand side so we don't become predictable in our attacking patterns, this would help pin teams back. 

 

Yes you're going to still see players like Trippier and Livramento get caught out, but Burn gets caught out anyway, and adding an additional attacking dimension and dragging us up the pitch far outweighs that. 

 

Ideally you find an athletic midfielder who is capable of filling the holes that are left, so you don't need to rely on this "Dan Burn fills in at CB when Trippier goes forward" idea. 

I don’t think this is true anymore about 2 attack minded fullbacks. 
 

City started Stones and Ake at fullback yesterday.  Their most attacking fullback is Walker who is defence first imo.  
 

In the top 5 only Liverpool and Spurs play with 2 attacking fullbacks. 

[Chris_R]

6 hours ago, Amir_9 said:

the Lewis Hall mystery etc.

Is it a mystery though? Nobody plays ahead of Dan Burn. It's that simple. Targett couldn't get in, Hall couldn't get in, now Livramento can't get in.

 

Burn is 6'7", so unless someone else manages to train themselves to be 6'8", unlucky, there's nothing they can do to get in the team. There's no mystery, they're just not tall enough.

[The College Dropout]

8 minutes ago, Gallowgate Toon said:

All of the current top 3 are often playing at least one CB in at least one of the FB positions, tbf.

Liverpool are only doing so through injury. But Klopp is happier playing Gomez at FB than ever before. 
 

Liverpool and Spurs are also by the weakest defensive teams in that top 5. 

[madras]

11 hours ago, Chris_R said:

 

Well why isn't our right back just as vulnerable?

 

Burn is too slow. He doesn't get outskilled, nobody's sending him the wrong way with a deft feint or the drop of a shoulder, people just knock the ball past him and run, and there's nothing he can do. That's not even something he can work on in training, he'll never be any faster.

 

Yes our midfield could offer more protection to the back line, but Burn being beaten for pace again and again by people just running round him isn't the midfield's fault.

Our right back was vulnerable when Miley played over there. Is it just coincidence that Trippiers worst games came when Miley was on the right and Burns are when he's on the left ?

 

 

Edited February 11 by madras

[Andy]

10 minutes ago, Gallowgate Toon said:

All of the current top 3 are often playing at least one CB in at least one of the FB positions, tbf.

 

True enough of Arsenal and City tbf, but even then the players they have in those positions are more dynamic than Burn, they also play with a completely different style to us in general.

 

Liverpool are more stylistically similar to us and at their best they play with Trent and Robertson first choice, Gomes has played there a lot this season due to injuries I believe, but again he's more capable going the other way than BDB and is more of an all-rounder than a centre half. 

[Displayname]

Even though i have lost my rose-colored glassed and are annoyed as fuck with him atm, im far from ready to let him go.

 

He turned a team of flops into a genuin top 4 team. The transformation of Joelinton, Almiron, Schär, Murphy, Longstaff erc. is nothing short of amazing. His positives still far outweigh any negatives we have seen lately for me. 

[Ghandis Flip-Flop]

10 hours ago, Mountain said:

 

Maybe 30 years ago re Gillian Anderson.

 

Nah she's getting better with age if you ask me

[Matt1892]

1 hour ago, SUPERTOON said:

How does fans wanting to see more technical players mean we want to be like Man City ? As for spending more money, don’t think anyone has criticised the club for this at all. It’s more aimed at FFP and it’s a very fair argument.

Other than on match day when emotions are high, this thread usually consists of people making fair criticisms or voicing concerns they have about the team, tactics or results.
 

The opposite side of that is people who don’t seem to be able to handle such opinions being voiced and get defensive about it, they don’t challenge the opinion but the fact someone has had the audacity to raise it, who wants to paint a picture of everything being perfect after we pick up a victory and that those criticisms cannot be valid due to us winning.

 

”Go and support Man City then”

 

Fucking hell.?

 

 

[Ikon]

The horse is high. 

[Chris_R]

39 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

I don’t think this is true anymore about 2 attack minded fullbacks. 
 

City started Stones and Ake at fullback yesterday.  Their most attacking fullback is Walker who is defence first imo.  
 

In the top 5 only Liverpool and Spurs play with 2 attacking fullbacks. 

 

There's a difference between a central defender who is quick, agile and can get up and down the pitch like Ake, and Dan Burn.

 

There's no harm in having someone fast, skillful AND tall at fullback, but Howe has decided that height is more important than those other two attributes combined. If it was working, fine. But it isn't. And his continual refusal to address it or even consider doing something different is frustrating.

 

And if it's frustrating for me, I can't even imagine how frustrating it must be for the £65m worth of actual fullbacks we've bought (or committed to buy) who's careers are being wasted because no matter what they do in training they'll never be tall enough and so won't ever be given a chance.

 

And if you think that last point is unfair, tell me the last time a fit and available Dan Burn was not picked to start.

 

 

Edited February 11 by Chris_R

[Chris_R]

And just for the forum police, I'll repeat that I love both Howe and Burn. Howe's worked miracles and Burn seems a great lad. But nobody is above criticism.

[The Prophet]

Five points off last season's total after the same amount of games. Win next week and it's two.