Eddie Howe

[Mikky]

4 minutes ago, STM said:

People said Howe was a problem at the start of the season we finished 4th, I remember specifically people whinging because we drew 0-0 at home to Palace. People said Howe was the problem when we finished 7th, despite getting back into the CL the following season and winning our first domestic trophy in 70 years.

 

If we havent improved visibly, and im not talking about results but our general play, then Howe will be gone pretty swiftly into the new season.

 

The revisionism isn't required though. Hes an outstanding manager, an outstanding person and if he does go he will go with nothing but respect. That also doesnt mean to say that it can't ultimately the right thing for us and Howe to part ways too. Sometimes change is just needed.

 

What worries me most are those that are so desperate for an Iraola or a Fabregas but one wrong word, one bad signing or god forbid they dont pick the team some want and they will be called worse than shit too.

 

Weve had managers like Souness and Gullit whom very quickly decided that they knew best because of their glittering playing careers or managers like Bruce or Pardew persistently dampened expectations of the fans, merely to protect themselves for producing shite football.

 

Im not saying they arent better options than Howe, that's open for discussion but tread very carefully because its astonishing how quickly things can get worse.... even than the season we have had.

 

What I sincerely hope is that the people who run our club have a contingency plan or a direction of travel should Howe go. We cant afford another "recruitment process". 

I would say on the whole that the vast majority on here have been very supportive of Howe these last 3 plus years prior to this season.  This season has been a shitshow 

 

Do I blame Howe - yes because he coaches these players 

 

However my anger is mainly towards to top brass - they take the majority of blame - I think we went 4 windows without a signing - the chickens are now coming home to roost given we have holes everywhere in this squad and a manager carrying all the flack unfairly imo and as a result is under enormous stress going into the summer 

 

Where the fuck was the strategy from the top brass?  A complete lack of vision and squad neglect from them 

[Kilcline]

17 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

My biggest issue with Howe is a lack of evolution in his thinking over the years.  
 

Like every year I see a slight pivot in Arteta. 
 

I don’t see that with Howe. 
 

The consistent one is the lack of playing football. 

Yeah, this is where people too get caught up in the "plan B is to do plan A better" stuff because even Klopp and Pep said that's what they do.

 

The top coaches add an original wrinkle or two every year. It's not always obvious, but it's there. Whereas Howe will often try stuff others have tried, but I'm not sure I've seen much he's obviously come up with himself. 

[Viana]

I'm trying very hard to see both sides of the coin with Eddie Howe at the moment. 

 

He's delivered so much to whereby we've had two European campaigns, and most importantly a trophy. I also think our lack of proper quality and depth has hindered him (and it 's what I think he was shooting for this summer, albeit failing miserably). The top squads all have that quality usually with two players per position. I looked up the year Liverpool won the league under Jurgen Klopp. The lads on the lower end of the appearance chart were players like; Luis Diaz, Joe Gomez, Divock Origi, Harvey Elliot. 

 

If we were playing them tomorrow I'd argue that bunch is stronger than what we have right now. The problem is, we spent £100m on two players in Yoanne Wissa and Anthony Elanga. Neither has a long term future at the club. If we take that as a major mistake, but one we'll learn from, by installing Ross Wilson and others, you might think next season will be better. 

 

That said, what concerns me is just how off the target Howe has been tactically this year. In those first few seasons (even up until last year given the cup final) I felt he always had his finger on the pulse. Even if the result didn't come, I felt able to see what we were doing and why it could have worked. This season it hasn't felt like that. The Champions League against Barcelona, the two derby matches, and a smattering of other games, have all felt like tactical missteps. Within that, is a growing sense of caution in his tactics. I've read a number of good posts on our dwindling intensity, and that's perhaps what concerns me most. 

 

In much the same way Jose Mourinho didn't last past a third season, I am debating if the players have stopped being motivated by Howe's methods. The squad needs a bit of an overhaul regardless, but in that scenario, knowing wholesale changes are always very difficult, it may seem easier to dispense with Howe and move to a style less reliant on physicality. 

[The College Dropout]

13 minutes ago, Kilcline said:

Yeah, this is where people too get caught up in the "plan B is to do plan A better" stuff because even Klopp and Pep said that's what they do.

 

The top coaches add an original wrinkle or two every year. It's not always obvious, but it's there. Whereas Howe will often try stuff others have tried, but I'm not sure I've seen much he's obviously come up with himself. 

I don’t mean originality I just mean evolution. 
 

It’s largely the same ideas again and again. The same basic midfield profile for 3 years. Same winger profiles for 3 years.  Largely doing the same things.  
 

Like Klopp knew his team needed a little more ability in midfield. Got Thiago then started adding more technicians. Arsenal size and strength maxxing then set piece maxing when they started as old school Pep clones. 

[Nedders]

Not necessarily Howe related, but what's the story on Graeme Jones, has he left?

[Bimpy474]

17 minutes ago, Kilcline said:

Yeah, this is where people too get caught up in the "plan B is to do plan A better" stuff because even Klopp and Pep said that's what they do.

 

The top coaches add an original wrinkle or two every year. It's not always obvious, but it's there. Whereas Howe will often try stuff others have tried, but I'm not sure I've seen much he's obviously come up with himself. 

 

See this is wrong, but also frustratingly right at the same time.  

 

The cup game at Arsenal, could you see either Klopp or Pep getting a CB in a two to rush out of defence to man mark the playmaker of Arsenal, on the edge of their box as they play out. 

It's mad but was brilliant and shows just how outside the box Eddie can think. 

 

But then he slips back into the tried and trusted, and now stale way of doing things.  Inside Eddie is an elite manager, he just doesn't show that enough.

We can all draw our own conclusions, IE he's not good enough to be Elite on a regular basis, or he doesn't have the players to consistently show how good he is. Or he just not good enough at all.

 

I'm certain now, next season will prove it one way or the other.  The squad imo will come back with a lot younger pacier players, and if Eddie tries the old stale way of doing things he'll be gone by late September. 

I hope, and think he will evolve and we'll see a fresh new team, still in the same formation, but much more energetic and creative, if not ?  The above will happen.

[Kilcline]

6 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

I don’t mean originality I just mean evolution. 
 

It’s largely the same ideas again and again. The same basic midfield profile for 3 years. Same winger profiles for 3 years.  Largely doing the same things.  
 

Like Klopp knew his team needed a little more ability in midfield. Got Thiago then started adding more technicians. Arsenal size and strength maxxing then set piece maxing when they started as old school Pep clones. 

The Arsenal example is what I mean though, a focus on set pieces to that extent is original in the context of no-one in the league was doing it.

 

Whereas we've tried a heap of different things but they've not stuck. We've had the full backs invert, we've had the midfield build up as a double pivot, but we don't see it through, and they're not original as in we're not presenting problems that teams haven't seen before. We've tried to evolve but we're always a step behind or try it then sack it off. 

[The Prophet]

49 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

My biggest issue with Howe is a lack of evolution in his thinking over the years.  
 

Like every year I see a slight pivot in Arteta. 
 

I don’t see that with Howe. 
 

The consistent one is the lack of playing football. 

 

The only sesson we haven't pivoted under Howe was between 22/23 and 23/24.

 

Completely agree there's a been a consistent lack of control or ability to keep our foot on the ball though.

[Kilcline]

3 minutes ago, Bimpy474 said:

 

See this is wrong, but also frustratingly right at the same time.  

 

The cup game at Arsenal, could you see either Klopp or Pep getting a CB in a two to rush out of defence to man mark the playmaker of Arsenal, on the edge of their box as they play out. 

It's mad but was brilliant and shows just how outside the box Eddie can think. 

 

But then he slips back into the tried and trusted, and now stale way of doing things.  Inside Eddie is an elite manager, he just doesn't show that enough.

We can all draw our own conclusions, IE he's not good enough to be Elite on a regular basis, or he doesn't have the players to consistently show how good he is. Or he just not good enough at all.

 

I'm certain now, next season will prove it one way or the other.  The squad imo will come back with a lot younger pacier players, and if Eddie tries the old stale way of doing things he'll be gone by late September. 

I hope, and think he will evolve and we'll see a fresh new team, still in the same formation, but much more energetic and creative, if not ?  The above will happen.

Yeah, I agree to an extent - and possibly where your Arsenal example comes in. 

 

So we know we can do the horses for courses stuff, so where's the pragmatism more often? But then we're probably into the time on the training ground etc arguments and what should/shouldn't be possible given limited time or a week to prepare for games 

[astraguy]

No problem whatsoever with Eddie staying, wouldn't even call it a bad season just inconsistent with so many games and losing key players time after time.. footballs fickle as fuck we missed Europe by what 5 points and finished 12th any other side that could of been 7 8 9th and people would be fine with it..Liverpool spent how much and just made cl Chelsea fucked it, people need to sit back and realise we have overachieved massive with the gaps we have against us. People keep banging on about villa piss me off they got mad money for 4 players above anything we get and when we wanna buy we get fucked 

[Kid Icarus]

3 hours ago, Froggy said:

Given the respective performances of each manager this season, would you swap Carrick for Howe? 

 

@Kid Icarus give me a second with this one.

Howeh, I've been sat here for 3 hours without blinking ffs 

[Cronky]

2 hours ago, Cronky said:

Bloody hell, guys. One crap season and Eddie is second-rate and the owners are only it for the money.

 

My take on it is that the players are not actually that good, and Eddie has overachieved with them. This season, there have been other pressures which have brought us down - principally the relentless fixture list, the quality of the opposition in the Premier League, the disruption caused by Isak's exit, the recruitment issues with no DOF and CEO, and not least the absence of Bruno at a crucial stage. We have been very lucky with him. He has barely missed a game since he arrived. He is a very important player and we felt his absence acutely.

 

Saying that Eddie is in the last-chance saloon is not a well-considered appraisal of his record or ability. It is a knee-jerk reaction to a disappointing season.

 

2 hours ago, Zero said:

…I ain’t totally disagree with your word but, the last-chance saloon does catch my eyes. I mean, it surely has to be his last chance here right? If we keep on like this we are going to fight against relegation next season.

 

Saying that he's in the last-chance saloon now implies that he's at fault for this season's problems. I don't think he is, and he should be starting next season with a clean slate. If we end up struggling again, then any decision will depend on what the reasons are for that new setback. But let's not heap pressure on the guy at this stage. That won't help.

 

I hated the final months of this season, not because of the results, but because of the reaction to those results, in the media and amongst many supporters. I'm haunted by the memory of what happened to Sir Bob. He took us from the relegation zone to 4th and 3rd place, and then when we slipped to 5th everyone seemed to be calling for his head. They got their way, but what a fantastic decision that turned out to be. 

 

Many years ago, as a teenager, I read Arthur Hopcraft's 'The Football Man' - still the best book about football that I've ever read. In the section on Managers, this statement leapt out at me at the time - 'past success is only briefly a glad memory; it quickly becomes an accusing finger'. That's what happened to Sir Bob and I'm reliving the nightmare of it potentially happening to Eddie. 

 

I console myself with the thought that our Saudi Chairman has a good grasp of the situation and isn't just giving Eddie 'another chance'. I think he knows the value of what he has and is giving him his full support. 

[Holmesy]

2 minutes ago, Cronky said:

 

 

Saying that he's in the last-chance saloon now implies that he's at fault for this season's problems. I don't think he is, and he should be starting next season with a clean slate. If we end up struggling again, then any decision will depend on what the reasons are for that new setback. But let's not heap pressure on the guy at this stage. That won't help.

 

I hated the final months of this season, not because of the results, but because of the reaction to those results, in the media and amongst many supporters. I'm haunted by the memory of what happened to Sir Bob. He took us from the relegation zone to 4th and 3rd place, and then when we slipped to 5th everyone seemed to be calling for his head. They got their way, but what a fantastic decision that turned out to be. 

 

Many years ago, as a teenager, I read Arthur Hopcraft's 'The Football Man' - still the best book about football that I've ever read. In the section on Managers, this statement leapt out at me at the time - 'past success is only briefly a glad memory; it quickly becomes an accusing finger'. That's what happened to Sir Bob and I'm reliving the nightmare of it potentially happening to Eddie. 

 

I console myself with the thought that our Saudi Chairman has a good grasp of the situation and isn't just giving Eddie 'another chance'. I think he knows the value of what he has and is giving him his full support. 

Getting rid of Sir Bobby wasn't necessarily the mistake. Hiring a wank replacement was - that's what took us backwards.
And we haven't regressed slightly under Eddie this season, we've gone from 5th to 12th, look shite all over the pitch having spent £250m and the plan to try and turned it around was to do more of the same stuff. Ultimately, the buck stops with the manager, so to say he's not to blame is fanciful.
We have to get behind him but he doesn't start with a blank slate. He had credit in the bank for what he's achieved so far, hence why he hasn't been given the boot. But it works the other way as well - if we don't see a marked improvement and evolution from this season to next, this season should absolutely count against him.

[Andy]

9 minutes ago, Cronky said:

 

 

Saying that he's in the last-chance saloon now implies that he's at fault for this season's problems. I don't think he is, and he should be starting next season with a clean slate. 

 

I think it's difficult to fully exonerate him of blame for this season like. He's made plenty of poor or questionable decisions on the pitch, which have just compounded the mess we were already in from the summer's business. That's without even getting into the conversation of whether he had responsibility for the signings we made. 

 

For me, going into next season he's effectively in the same position a new manager would be if they took over tomorrow. No credit, no debit. A clean slate as you say, but we need to be much, much better on the pitch and hit the ground running. 

[Mole]

23 minutes ago, Cronky said:

 

 

Saying that he's in the last-chance saloon now implies that he's at fault for this season's problems. I don't think he is, and he should be starting next season with a clean slate. If we end up struggling again, then any decision will depend on what the reasons are for that new setback. But let's not heap pressure on the guy at this stage. That won't help.

 

I hated the final months of this season, not because of the results, but because of the reaction to those results, in the media and amongst many supporters. I'm haunted by the memory of what happened to Sir Bob. He took us from the relegation zone to 4th and 3rd place, and then when we slipped to 5th everyone seemed to be calling for his head. They got their way, but what a fantastic decision that turned out to be. 

 

Many years ago, as a teenager, I read Arthur Hopcraft's 'The Football Man' - still the best book about football that I've ever read. In the section on Managers, this statement leapt out at me at the time - 'past success is only briefly a glad memory; it quickly becomes an accusing finger'. That's what happened to Sir Bob and I'm reliving the nightmare of it potentially happening to Eddie. 

 

I console myself with the thought that our Saudi Chairman has a good grasp of the situation and isn't just giving Eddie 'another chance'. I think he knows the value of what he has and is giving him his full support. 

Not making decisions based on fear that it might get worse is exactly how you in fact get worse, that isn't how any top team or a team striving to a be a top team operates.

[TRC]

The big concern for me is we had 7 games after the international and fa cup break to turn the season round. We had 1 tough game but 13 points looked on for us.
 

We took 7 points and looked terrible in every game apart from the West Ham game

 

 

Edited May 25 by TRC

[Cronky]

17 minutes ago, Andy said:

 

I think it's difficult to fully exonerate him of blame for this season like. He's made plenty of poor or questionable decisions on the pitch, which have just compounded the mess we were already in from the summer's business. That's without even getting into the conversation of whether he had responsibility for the signings we made. 

 

For me, going into next season he's effectively in the same position a new manager would be if they took over tomorrow. No credit, no debit. A clean slate as you say, but we need to be much, much better on the pitch and hit the ground running. 

 

Just to be clear, when I said he should be given a 'clean slate', I wasn't suggesting that his past achievements shouldn't count for anything. Just that all the external problems that have hindered him this season should not cloud our judgement. 

 

8 minutes ago, Mole said:

Not making decisions based on fear that it might get worse is exactly how you in fact get worse, that isn't how any top team or a team striving to a be a top team operates.

 

I don't think the owners are hesitant out of fear of making things worse. I think Yasir in particular has great faith in Eddie and intends to back him through any hard times, keeping focused on the long-term.

 

And on the same subject, I really likely Yasir. I think there was an assumption in the media that the Saudis would be impatient and ruthless and ditch Eddie at the first sign of a setback. Instead, it seems to me that they've kept very calm and measured.

[ianbeany]

1 hour ago, astraguy said:

No problem whatsoever with Eddie staying, wouldn't even call it a bad season just inconsistent with so many games and losing key players time after time.. footballs fickle as fuck we missed Europe by what 5 points and finished 12th any other side that could of been 7 8 9th and people would be fine with it..Liverpool spent how much and just made cl Chelsea fucked it, people need to sit back and realise we have overachieved massive with the gaps we have against us. People keep banging on about villa piss me off they got mad money for 4 players above anything we get and when we wanna buy we get fucked 

 

I wouldn't either.

 

I'd call it a fucking awful season

[astraguy]

1 minute ago, ianbeany said:

 

I wouldn't either.

 

I'd call it a fucking awful season

The late goals killed us, but bad season nah fucking nonsense with the summer and injuries to go far in most the cups n miss Europe by 5 points have a day off 

[ianbeany]

15 minutes ago, astraguy said:

The late goals killed us, but bad season nah fucking nonsense with the summer and injuries to go far in most the cups n miss Europe by 5 points have a day off 

 

 Aye ok mate

 

Excuses, excuses, excuses.   And you'll have a whole new list of them next season if we get more of the same

[NUFC91]

1 hour ago, astraguy said:

No problem whatsoever with Eddie staying, wouldn't even call it a bad season just inconsistent with so many games and losing key players time after time.. footballs fickle as fuck we missed Europe by what 5 points and finished 12th any other side that could of been 7 8 9th and people would be fine with it..Liverpool spent how much and just made cl Chelsea fucked it, people need to sit back and realise we have overachieved massive with the gaps we have against us. People keep banging on about villa piss me off they got mad money for 4 players above anything we get and when we wanna buy we get fucked 

 

Getting into Europe this year was easy let's be honest..53 points, last year Palace finished 12th with 53 points.

 

Also football is results driven, saying we could of finished 7th,8th or 9th..we didnt.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 25 by NUFC91

[The Bonk]

2 hours ago, Mole said:

I just defended your man, least you can do is drop an f bomb or two.

 

@Newcastle Fan is a Farage lover!!! That F bomb? 'preciate you, @Mole.

[STM]

2 hours ago, Mikky said:

I would say on the whole that the vast majority on here have been very supportive of Howe these last 3 plus years prior to this season.  This season has been a shitshow 

 

Do I blame Howe - yes because he coaches these players 

 

However my anger is mainly towards to top brass - they take the majority of blame - I think we went 4 windows without a signing - the chickens are now coming home to roost given we have holes everywhere in this squad and a manager carrying all the flack unfairly imo and as a result is under enormous stress going into the summer 

 

Where the fuck was the strategy from the top brass?  A complete lack of vision and squad neglect from them 

 

You seem a very angry fan considering the success weve had in the last 4 years. Im not saying that to sound patronising. But why is that? We've had a piss-poor year, no question but everything about what you are saying suggests you expect way more. We are about 6 points off where par is for us given our finances. 

 

What would be your general expectation? Not so much in performance but in results?

 

Also, I have to take issue with the "vast majority have been supportive", shouldn't they all be supportive of the best manager weve had in 25 year, at least?

 

 

[Froggy]

1 hour ago, Kid Icarus said:

Howeh, I've been sat here for 3 hours without blinking ffs 

 

No Howe outers answered it how I wanted them to.

[Kimbo]

33 minutes ago, astraguy said:

The late goals killed us, but bad season nah fucking nonsense with the summer and injuries to go far in most the cups n miss Europe by 5 points have a day off 

Conceding goals can have a negative effect on a teams performance.