More transfer rumours

[The College Dropout]

I think 50m+ is a possibility. Phillips, Rice, Raphinha, Nunez would cost that much or more.

[greydos]

20 minutes ago, KaKa said:

 

Spending big does not guarantee success at all. Having the right manager, good recruitment and spending in the right areas is what is needed. Money needs to be spent, but it needs to be done correctly more importantly, and not just spending big. Look at the state of the current Everton team for goodness sake. They have spent incredible amounts irresponsibly and are in a complete mess for it.

 

Your initial post was talking about players in the £100 million bracket ... I mean are you serious? If you think we can't compete unless we're buying players in that bracket, that is ridiculous IMO.

I think you’re both right. Ultimately spending his is a pre-requisite for success, but not a guarantee of success.

[macphisto]

3 minutes ago, KaKa said:

 

Spending big does not guarantee success at all. Having the right manager, good recruitment and spending in the right areas is what is needed. Money needs to be spent, but it needs to be done correctly more importantly, and not just spending big. Look at the state of the current Everton team for goodness sake. They have spent incredible amounts irresponsibly and are in a complete mess for it.

 

Your initial post was talking about players in the £100 million bracket ... I mean are you serious? If you think we can't compete unless we're buying players in that bracket, that is ridiculous IMO.

How is that ridiculous when every team we will be competing against will have a few players, possibly more than a few, worth £100 million???? You can't get to the stated aims of the owners, starting from where we are without doing that in the next year or two.  Also why are you ignoring what I said, I'll repeat for the 3rd time that yes you'll need smart recruitment like Rob Lee but we'll also have to spend a lot of money. 

 

The four best strikers I have seen in my lifetime are Beardsley, Cole, Ferdinand and Shearer. Based on your thinking we would never have signed Ferdinand and Shearer when we did. 

 

You can quote Everton, but I'll give you this list from the last 10 years. Some teams have won more than others but that's when structure, philosophy and managers come into play. 

 

The top 10 highest spending clubs in world football
1. Manchester City - £1.38bn – 260 arrivals

2. Chelsea - £1.33bn – 342 arrivals

3. Barcelona - £1.28bn – 156 arrivals

4. Manchester United - £1.24bn – 167 arrivals

5. Juventus - £1.24bn – 533 arrivals

6. Paris Saint-Germain - £1.17bn – 177 arrivals

7. Atletico Madrid - £940m – 216 arrivals

8. Real Madrid - £920m – 133 arrivals

9. Arsenal - £890m – 195 arrivals

10. AS Roma - £870m – 508 arrivals

 

Liverpool are not on the list but they spent when they had to on Van Dijk and Alisson. 

 

It's dreamland to think we can somehow buck the trend of every other successful team. 

 

[FloydianMag]

3 hours ago, KaKa said:

 

Spending big doesn't guarantee anything.

 

 

 

 

 

No, however it’s a nice option to have, should it really be needed.

[macphisto]

5 minutes ago, greydos said:

I think you’re both right. Ultimately spending his is a pre-requisite for success, but not a guarantee of success.

I think this used to be true but I honestly think it's changing more and more and this is where Ambramovich and Abu Dhabi distorted the market. Chelsea and Man City have no qualms about throwing money at it until they do get success. Look at how much Man City spent on full backs until they got the right players. 

 

Personally, the best model to follow is the Liverpool model in my opinion but at times they have still splashed the cash when they had to. 

[andyc35i]

20 minutes ago, TotalWar said:

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/premier-league/einnahmenausgaben/wettbewerb/GB1/plus/0?ids=a&sa=&saison_id=2011&saison_id_bis=2021&nat=&pos=&altersklasse=&w_s=&leihe=&intern=0
 

spend of clubs in premier league over the last ten years.

you can compare the points gained over that period to see how it correlates.

Liecester are the only outlier.

Assume this includes our £90m outlay in January? If you take that away, we sit below Southampton which is pretty funny 

[KaKa]

35 minutes ago, macphisto said:

How is that ridiculous when every team we will be competing against will have a few players, possibly more than a few, worth £100 million???? You can't get to the stated aims of the owners, starting from where we are without doing that in the next year or two.  Also why are you ignoring what I said, I'll repeat for the 3rd time that yes you'll need smart recruitment like Rob Lee but we'll also have to spend a lot of money. 

 

The four best strikers I have seen in my lifetime are Beardsley, Cole, Ferdinand and Shearer. Based on your thinking we would never have signed Ferdinand and Shearer when we did. 

 

You can quote Everton, but I'll give you this list from the last 10 years. Some teams have won more than others but that's when structure, philosophy and managers come into play. 

 

The top 10 highest spending clubs in world football
1. Manchester City - £1.38bn – 260 arrivals

2. Chelsea - £1.33bn – 342 arrivals

3. Barcelona - £1.28bn – 156 arrivals

4. Manchester United - £1.24bn – 167 arrivals

5. Juventus - £1.24bn – 533 arrivals

6. Paris Saint-Germain - £1.17bn – 177 arrivals

7. Atletico Madrid - £940m – 216 arrivals

8. Real Madrid - £920m – 133 arrivals

9. Arsenal - £890m – 195 arrivals

10. AS Roma - £870m – 508 arrivals

 

Liverpool are not on the list but they spent when they had to on Van Dijk and Alisson. 

 

It's dreamland to think we can somehow buck the trend of every other successful team. 

 

 

We absolutely do not need to buy players currently worth £100 million to compete. I think that is ridiculous.

 

The key is identifying players with that kind of ability that are on the rise and can be bought before they have hit those kind of sums.

 

Building up the squad with players similar to the profile of Guimaraes is exactly what we should be aiming to do right now, and we will be well on our way.

 

Ironically Liverpool under Klopp are mostly made up of players that were not considered at the very top tier at the time they were bought, but grew into that. Both Salah and Mane cost in the £30 millions. That is the sort of approach we should be going with.

[macphisto]

Just now, KaKa said:

 

We absolutely do not need to buy players currently worth £100 million to compete. I think that is ridiculous.

 

The key is identifying players with that kind of ability that are on the rise and can be bought before they have hit those kind of sums.

 

Building up the squad with players similar to the profile of Guimaraes is exactly what we should be aiming to do right now, and we will be well on our way.

 

Ironically Liverpool under Klopp are mostly made up of players that were not considered at the very top tier at the time they were bought, but grew into that. Both Salah and Mane cost in the £30 millions. That is the sort of approach we should be going with.

Fair enough, every other top club has it wrong. Salah and Mane were four and five years ago, they would be a lot more now. I have mentioned Rob Lee numerous times as an example of players we can also aim for but you just ignore it. What would Van Dijk and Allison go for now? An example where they had to spend big money, it's unavoidable if you want to win things. 

 

I am not saying this summer but we'll definitely have to start spending a lot of money next year if we want to reach the owners stated ambitions. As daft as this may sound, £30/£40 million pound players will only get you so far in this league. I doubt it would get you competing consistently for Champions League positions and you certainly wouldn't be anywhere near winning the league. 

 

Name one club that has consistently competed in England without spending a lot of money? You can't as there isn't a team like that unless you go back to before the Premier League.

 

FA cup winners: Usual top spenders apart Everton 1995, Wigan 2013 and Leicester 2021

Premier League winners: Usual top spenders apart from Leicester 2016

Champions League: Almost always the top spenders qualify and certainly the top spenders win it.

 

 

[KaKa]

11 minutes ago, macphisto said:

Fair enough, every other top club has it wrong. Salah and Mane were four and five years ago, they would be a lot more now. I have mentioned Rob Lee numerous times as an example of players we can also aim for but you just ignore it. What would Van Dijk and Allison go for now? An example where they had to spend big money, it's unavoidable if you want to win things. 

 

I am not saying this summer but we'll definitely have to start spending a lot of money next year if we want to reach the owners stated ambitions. As daft as this may sound, £30/£40 million pound players will only get you so far in this league. I doubt it would get you competing consistently for Champions League positions and you certainly wouldn't be anywhere near winning the league. 

 

Name one club that has consistently competed in England without spending a lot of money? You can't as there isn't a team like that unless you go back to before the Premier League.

 

FA cup winners: Usual top spenders apart Everton 1995, Wigan 2013 and Leicester 2021

Premier League winners: Usual top spenders apart from Leicester 2016

Champions League: Almost always the top spenders qualify and certainly the top spenders win it.

 

 

 

I'm not saying we shouldn't spend. I just don't believe it has to be in the £100 million bracket when we're talking about individual players.

 

I think we'd be infinitely closer to our goals bringing in 3 - 5 players with a £100 million consistently rather than spending that kind of money on one individual player.

 

I think perhaps when we get to the point where we have a great team in place, and we are in and around the mix of challenging for things, and we maybe feel we need one special player to get us over the hump, then maybe at that point we make that kind of signing. But for now I don't think it's the way to go.

[macphisto]

30 minutes ago, KaKa said:

 

I'm not saying we shouldn't spend. I just don't believe it has to be in the £100 million bracket when we're talking about individual players.

 

I think we'd be infinitely closer to our goals bringing in 3 - 5 players with a £100 million consistently rather than spending that kind of money on one individual player.

 

I think perhaps when we get to the point where we have a great team in place, and we are in and around the mix of challenging for things, and we maybe feel we need one special player to get us over the hump, then maybe at that point we make that kind of signing. But for now I don't think it's the way to go.

I can see where you're coming from but I'd like to think with the right people in place and a vision to sell that next summer we could be in for say Bellingham (just using him as an example). You're then talking about £80 million+ a player by next summer.

 

It shows you how football prices have risen that £30-£40 million potentially doesn't get you much. It's a risky price bracket where you'll hit and miss. Willock was £25 million and he's an average player.  I know you can point at Bruno but you're not going to get many Brazilian internationals for that price and also we're all getting carried away with him, myself included; we don't know how he's going to settle long-term.  Another thing to consider is that should we spend say £100-£150 million this summer on 4-5 players then we'd be struggling to significantly upgrade the team next summer if we stuck to that same transfer plan. 

 

Personally, I hope we spend in the region of £150 million on three quality players this summer who would really raise the standard of the team. There's always a risk, but in general the more you pay the greater the possibility they'll be a success.

 

I know these figures are ridiculous, easy for me to say £150 million but we've all heard where the owners want to be in the future. Also, based on my knowledge of Saudi Arabia, they're not going to mess around. 

[STM]

It's about stages though isn't it? It would be pointless spending 100m on signing say Bellingham, only for him to playing alongside Shelvey, if Bruno is injured for example.

 

We need to build a strong squad of players, international players even. We signed Trippier and Bruno for less than 50m for example, I'd wager those two players would have a bigger impact than one "star" signing.

 

Hopefully one day we will be in a position where we are looking at signing one or two "stars" who take us to next level.

 

The main issue I can see is signing a striker. A good goalscorer can cost you twice as much as any other position on the pitch, even an average one. That's the biggest issue we face this summer.

[macphisto]

50 minutes ago, STM said:

It's about stages though isn't it? It would be pointless spending 100m on signing say Bellingham, only for him to playing alongside Shelvey, if Bruno is injured for example.

 

We need to build a strong squad of players, international players even. We signed Trippier and Bruno for less than 50m for example, I'd wager those two players would have a bigger impact than one "star" signing.

 

Hopefully one day we will be in a position where we are looking at signing one or two "stars" who take us to next level.

 

The main issue I can see is signing a striker. A good goalscorer can cost you twice as much as any other position on the pitch, even an average one. That's the biggest issue we face this summer.

I agree on stages which is why we'll only be able to attract or even be in the hunt for the top youngsters next summer 2023. By then I'd like to think we'll have a good structure in place and a vision to sell.

 

The example you use is where I differ. Next summer I'd much rather have say Bruno and Bellingham (I'm not hung up on Bellingham, just used as an example) as 1st choice with Shelvey/Willock as back up rather than replace the whole midfield with £30/£40 million players who are much of a muchness and then move up a level. It's false economy to some extent and delays the process. Obviously I'm relying on luck to an extent with regards to injuries but I'd risk it.

 

I agree about a striker, going to cost a fair bit.

[madras]

If Bellingham were to come here, is he aware of his name change ?

[Fantail Breeze]

Could we get Sterling or is that too ambitious? Would be ideal for us, imo.

[gbandit]

25 minutes ago, Fantail Breeze said:

Could we get Sterling or is that too ambitious? Would be ideal for us, imo.

No chance 

[Manxst]

1 minute ago, gbandit said:

No chance 

I reckon City would sell, but imo he seems the type that would want to try his hand abroad, maybe Spain. (Don’t know why I think that!)

[Dr Jinx]

Without naming any particular player we’ve been linked with, it just needs to be said that any player who’s not prepared to break their bollocks for the club in terms of effort and helping out teammates, or a player who has just as more interest in their golf handicap than reaching their maximum potential with us should be avoided at all costs.

 

I’m more than happy to see other clubs make those expensive mistakes.

[Dr.Spaceman]

Aye, those types can continue to sign for Everton for all I care.

[Nine]

Sterling and Bellingham?  There is going to be some twisting when we don’t sign any well established ‘big’ names this summer isn’t there?

[cubaricho]

17 minutes ago, Nine said:

Sterling and Bellingham?  There is going to be some twisting when we don’t sign any well established ‘big’ names this summer isn’t there?

 

Not sure anyone actually thinks we'll be signing that "level" of player, do they?

[Away Toon]

Manchester United, Liverpool and Newcastle are interested in signing Portugal midfielder Otavio, 27, from Porto this summer. (A Bola - in Portuguese)

 

Newcastle United are targeting Watford winger Ismaila Sarr, 24, with Liverpool also watching the Senegal international. (The Sun)

[Stottie]

With Mbappe and Pogba walking and PEA buying out his contract, I think things may be changing in the transfer market. Salah and Rashford are set up to walk in summer 2023. Player power has always existed, but perhaps not to this level.

 

If the aim is Top 6-8, I don't think we need big names just yet. With the current focus on sportswashing in football due to Abramovich, it may be wise for the club to keep a lower profile and build through reasonable investment and undoing the competency gap that developed under Ashley. Harry Kane for example would vastly improve us as a team, of course he would, but at this point, three-quarters of the headlines would be "murderers trying to buy the league". For all the claims about sportswashing, I think the biggest objections people had to Chelsea and Man City were about unfair competition. Anything that can be claimed on that front will amplify the new-found concern about sportswashing.

 

It didn't get many headlines, but the club has signed up with Statsbomb, the data analytics people. With the people Howe is putting in place, and the clear success we had in January, I have faith in the club finding good players who are not necessarily high profile. Good enough for Top 8 at least. We've just managed a third of a season of Top 6-8 form with a bottom six striker who hasn't even been on form.

[Wolfcastle]

4 hours ago, cubaricho said:

 

Not sure anyone actually thinks we'll be signing that "level" of player, do they?

 

Its pre-season 94/95 to me not 95/96 and that's fine and, unromantically, probably right, especially if 95/96 style suitably follows.

Course if you're not old enough that's just a bunch of numbers

 

 

Edited March 29, 2022 by Wolfcastle

[The Prophet]

A few reports doing the rounds that Boubacar Kamara has agreed terms with Atleti.

[macphisto]

The Athletic have put up an article on what past Newcastle players would be worth now. Obviously not sure how valid their model is but it still makes some interesting reading.

 

I'll start with the best stat, Marcelino transfer would now equate to £47 million.

 

Some other notables:

Asprilla £111 million

Duncan Ferguson £75 million

Warren Barton £62 million

David Batty £55 million

Darren Peacock and Albert both £54 million

Pistone £50 million

Cort £48 million

Boumsong £31 million

Andy Cole £44 million

Rob Lee £17 million

Beresford £15 million

 

All a bit of fun but I do think we're underestimating how much we'll have to spend to get to where we want to be or even challenging next season for between 6th-10th place which should be the aim. I also think people underestimate how much we spent in the past under the Hall reign relative to now and we only seriously challenged for a short time. For example, not on the list but someone like Speed's transfer fee would probably now equate to at least £60-70million.