Kevin Nolan

[Guest Rey Mysterio]

Nolan's performance was dreadful against Wolves. Couldn't make it on saturday but it sounds like he was piss poor again, he has to be dropped sooner or later, please Chris, bite the bullet and do it now!

[TRon]

 

I agree with the point he was as bad as anyone yesterday. People seem to of overlooked how poor Barton was. It's interesting when Barton has performed it has lifted the team this season but yesterday he was completely off the pace, the whole midfield was. However I think the calls for Nolan to be dropped have come from the reasons mentioned above and the fact we now have a quality alternative. It's too early to predict just how influential Ben Arfa will be but it was evident from fifteen minutes of football yesterday he will provide far more quality than Nolan. He's fitter, has better technique, vision and distribution, I don't think it’s a coincidence we looked far more threatening after his introduction. The only dimension it appears Nolan will provide over Ben Arfa is that direct threat in the box, you won't see the Frenchman being in the right place at the right time to tap it in after a brutal goal mouth scramble.

 

On the field for me I'd drop Nolan but it remains to be seen what affect that would have off the field in terms of how the captain and influential player in the dressing room reacts and responds to his mangers decision. For me we can't worry about that. Of course a team spirit is important and we'd not be where we are without it but quality on the park is just as, if not more important and I think Ben Arfa will provide much more of it than Nolan.

 

 

I have said since day one that the problem with our midfield is that most of them are too slow and I include Barton in this as well as Guthrie and Butt last year. Then you have Nolan who is also a midfielder but is currently playing up front because he is worse than the other midfield options. If you are going to play Barton as a midfielder can you really afford to play another slow midfielder in the team in front of him?

[Theregulars]

All this stuff about he's been shit since we signed him - he was clearly pretty useful last year. I'd still drop him though. Saturday was just one of those days - we had one were everything went for us (Villa), and we had one where things went against us (Gilks being invincible, Williamson hitting the post etc.) - it's football, it happens.

[Guest Roger Kint]

All this stuff about he's been s*** since we signed him - he was clearly pretty useful last year. I'd still drop him though. Saturday was just one of those days - we had one were everything went for us (Villa), and we had one where things went against us (Gilks being invincible, Williamson hitting the post etc.) - it's football, it happens.

 

Ameobi was useful last season too, sadly they dont let us play those shite teams this season for either of them to be any real use.....

[Guest neesy111]

Players being useful last season is quite irrelvant as different players adapt differently to the premiership.  But we are a team that can't afford a midfield like we have at the moment with Smith, Nolan and Barton offering not much in creativity, pace etc

[Mick]

 

It's not like Nolan is standing there while the rest of the team plays this high energy attacking football around him. We simply don't have the squad to play like that, and one new player will not magically turn the rest of them into a team that can play like that. We have to live with that fact for this season at least, and Hughton has to try and put together a team that works effectively week in week out with what he has.

 

Nolan is playing as a forward. His job is to get into positions to get chances, to score goals and set up others. He did it all last season and he's been doing it this season. As long as he keeps doing that, and as long as he keeps putting some of them away, then he's doing his job. If there's someone in the squad who can do that better than Nolan then fine - Shola? Lovenkrands? Ranger? - but I'm not sure why everyone is so keen to shoe-horn Ben Arfa into that position when he's been a midfielder most of his career.

 

You say "we looked far more threatening after his introduction". Well he replaced Gutierrez, not Nolan. Perhaps that's why we looked better.

 

What position was Nolan playing once Jonas went off?

[Gallowgate Toon]

 

It's not like Nolan is standing there while the rest of the team plays this high energy attacking football around him. We simply don't have the squad to play like that, and one new player will not magically turn the rest of them into a team that can play like that. We have to live with that fact for this season at least, and Hughton has to try and put together a team that works effectively week in week out with what he has.

 

Nolan is playing as a forward. His job is to get into positions to get chances, to score goals and set up others. He did it all last season and he's been doing it this season. As long as he keeps doing that, and as long as he keeps putting some of them away, then he's doing his job. If there's someone in the squad who can do that better than Nolan then fine - Shola? Lovenkrands? Ranger? - but I'm not sure why everyone is so keen to shoe-horn Ben Arfa into that position when he's been a midfielder most of his career.

 

You say "we looked far more threatening after his introduction". Well he replaced Gutierrez, not Nolan. Perhaps that's why we looked better.

Who says the way we're playing right now is the most effective considering the squad we have? One player playing in the focal point of our attack will of course affect the way we play as a team, never underestimate movement upfront, it is the key to opening space and creating chances.

 

Nolan is NOT playing as an orthodox striker, his job is to provide a link between attack and midfield and create space. The kind of striker you described plays in a 4-4-2 and plays off the shoulder of defenders and is usually classed as a fox in the box (Michael Owen, RVN those types of players). People slated Barton yesterday (eventhough he played well in the 2nd half) for sloppy passing but imagine if you're him and you look up to our strike force, Nolan never dropped deep to make himself available or made any type of run to aim a ball at and he never will because he doesn't have what it takes against this standard of defender. He scored twice against Villa but was absolutely crap for the first hour, constantly caught in possession etc and he's fluffed great chances in the last 2 games.

 

Look at Vela's goal yesterday, Barton has the ability to provide a pass like that but is Kevin Nolan going to make a similar run? Doubt it but Ben Arfa will if he sees the opportunity. When he came on against Blackpool, he constantly moved for the ball and made space for himself, if he does that we actually have something to pass to when on the attack and in him we have a player that will provide as well as chip in with some goals.

 

Succesful football is about a system working well but our system is flawed and will be easy to defend against, i think we're already being found out with the current XI. Kevin Nolan may get 8 goals and assist 3 or 4 but what if Ben Arfa only gets 6 goals but creates 15? Surely that's more beneficial.

[tmonkey]

Quoting Sir Bobby:

 

Jose Mourinho told me last season that Geremi's legs had effectively gone. "'Mister, he plays like a 40-year-old. He can not run any more. He will not play for me in important matches again,' was Jose's typically forthright response. Naturally, I was alarmed to read that Newcastle wanted to sign Geremi. I passed on my information to someone at the club (before Mike Ashley took over), but Geremi still ended up signing. In fact, Sam made him captain.

 

Think something similar applies to Nolan imo. At 28, his stamina/legs are those of a 40 year old almost. If Nolan really was 36 for example, you could look at his performance/fitness levels and say "yeah, that's not bad for someone his age".

 

Which then raises the question of why we aren't moving him on, when if his age on paper were to match his fitness/mobility levels (e.g. 35), we'd be doing carting him off to a lower league club in no time. Or so I hope anyway. Never know with this club after the Nicky Butt era.

[DJ_NUFC]

We should've ditched him when we got promoted, or told him he would only be a squad player. He's good to have around by the looks of things in the dressing room, and Hughton clearly finds him dreamy, but he should be used sparingly, not made captain.

[Stu]

We should've ditched him when we got promoted, or told him he would only be a squad player. He's good to have around by the looks of things in the dressing room, and Hughton clearly finds him dreamy, but he should be used sparingly, not made captain.

 

What qualities do you look for in a captain? (Ignore Nolan, Smith, Butt, Owen, Shearer)

[jdckelly]

He is counterproductive to any attempt to play high energy attacking football.

 

It's not like Nolan is standing there while the rest of the team plays this high energy attacking football around him. We simply don't have the squad to play like that, and one new player will not magically turn the rest of them into a team that can play like that. We have to live with that fact for this season at least, and Hughton has to try and put together a team that works effectively week in week out with what he has.

 

Nolan is playing as a forward. His job is to get into positions to get chances, to score goals and set up others. He did it all last season and he's been doing it this season. As long as he keeps doing that, and as long as he keeps putting some of them away, then he's doing his job. If there's someone in the squad who can do that better than Nolan then fine - Shola? Lovenkrands? Ranger? - but I'm not sure why everyone is so keen to shoe-horn Ben Arfa into that position when he's been a midfielder most of his career.

 

You say "we looked far more threatening after his introduction". Well he replaced Gutierrez, not Nolan. Perhaps that's why we looked better.

best post in the thread imo

[Doug]

He is counterproductive to any attempt to play high energy attacking football.

 

It's not like Nolan is standing there while the rest of the team plays this high energy attacking football around him. We simply don't have the squad to play like that, and one new player will not magically turn the rest of them into a team that can play like that. We have to live with that fact for this season at least, and Hughton has to try and put together a team that works effectively week in week out with what he has.

 

Nolan is playing as a forward. His job is to get into positions to get chances, to score goals and set up others. He did it all last season and he's been doing it this season. As long as he keeps doing that, and as long as he keeps putting some of them away, then he's doing his job. If there's someone in the squad who can do that better than Nolan then fine - Shola? Lovenkrands? Ranger? - but I'm not sure why everyone is so keen to shoe-horn Ben Arfa into that position when he's been a midfielder most of his career.

 

You say "we looked far more threatening after his introduction". Well he replaced Gutierrez, not Nolan. Perhaps that's why we looked better.

best post in the thread imo

It is like that actually.

Ben Arfa also made a difference due to his individual efforts.

But so did taking off both our wingers, we lost what little shape and width we had and the game resembled a playground free for all.

Somehow Nolan survived the baffling changes and trundled about in his usual way.

[steve_69]

He is counterproductive to any attempt to play high energy attacking football.

 

It's not like Nolan is standing there while the rest of the team plays this high energy attacking football around him. We simply don't have the squad to play like that, and one new player will not magically turn the rest of them into a team that can play like that. We have to live with that fact for this season at least, and Hughton has to try and put together a team that works effectively week in week out with what he has.

 

Nolan is playing as a forward. His job is to get into positions to get chances, to score goals and set up others. He did it all last season and he's been doing it this season. As long as he keeps doing that, and as long as he keeps putting some of them away, then he's doing his job. If there's someone in the squad who can do that better than Nolan then fine - Shola? Lovenkrands? Ranger? - but I'm not sure why everyone is so keen to shoe-horn Ben Arfa into that position when he's been a midfielder most of his career.

 

You say "we looked far more threatening after his introduction". Well he replaced Gutierrez, not Nolan. Perhaps that's why we looked better.

best post in the thread imo

It is like that actually.

Ben Arfa also made a difference due to his individual efforts.

But so did taking off both our wingers, we lost what little shape and width we had and the game resembled a playground free for all.

Somehow Nolan survived the baffling changes and trundled about in his wading through treacle way, with the best view of all.

 

I'm pretty sure Nolan has also spent his entire career as a midfielder yet you seem to have no problem with him being shoe-horned into a forward role?

[UV]

Succesful football is about a system working well but our system is flawed and will be easy to defend against, i think we're already being found out with the current XI. Kevin Nolan may get 8 goals and assist 3 or 4 but what if Ben Arfa only gets 6 goals but creates 15? Surely that's more beneficial.

 

But if Ben Arfa replaces Nolan, you're talking about sticking with the same system anyway. Kevin Nolan may get 8 goals and assist 3 or 4. Gutierrez will typically get 1 or 2 goals and 3 or 4 assists in a decent league. So who would Ben Arfa most beneficially replace? Someone who scores goals, or someone who "creates space" and "relieves pressure"? By my count Ben Arfa has 18 careerer assists over 6 seasons and 170 appearances btw, so I don't know but perhaps hoping he's going to get 15 this season is maybe expecting a little too much?

 

 

I guess as long as Ben Arfa adapts quickly to a new position, team, country and league, hits the form of his life, maintains it, stays fit, can create his own chances, doesn't let his head drop when we're losing, when he's not getting the ball, or when he's targeted by the opposition, and has the typical strong gaelic mentality and maturity to handle the pressure of carrying the rest of the team, we'll be fine.

 

On the other hand, I hope we haven't put our single egg in a basket and counted it as a chicken already. So much of our hope for this season seems to be pinned on this lad. Thank goodness no-one wanted to buy him.

[merlin]

Succesful football is about a system working well but our system is flawed and will be easy to defend against, i think we're already being found out with the current XI. Kevin Nolan may get 8 goals and assist 3 or 4 but what if Ben Arfa only gets 6 goals but creates 15? Surely that's more beneficial.

 

But if Ben Arfa replaces Nolan, you're talking about sticking with the same system anyway. Kevin Nolan may get 8 goals and assist 3 or 4. Gutierrez will typically get 1 or 2 goals and 3 or 4 assists in a decent league. So who would Ben Arfa most beneficially replace? Someone who scores goals, or someone who "creates space" and "relieves pressure"? By my count Ben Arfa has 18 careerer assists over 6 seasons and 170 appearances btw, so I don't know but perhaps hoping he's going to get 15 this season is maybe expecting a little too much?

 

 

I guess as long as Ben Arfa adapts quickly to a new position, team, country and league, hits the form of his life, maintains it, stays fit, can create his own chances, doesn't let his head drop when we're losing, when he's not getting the ball, or when he's targeted by the opposition, and has the typical strong gaelic mentality and maturity to handle the pressure of carrying the rest of the team, we'll be fine.

 

On the other hand, I hope we haven't put our single egg in a basket and counted it as a chicken already. So much of our hope for this season seems to be pinned on this lad. Thank goodness no-one wanted to buy him.

 

...'typical strong gaelic mentality..' Don't you mean GALLIC ? He's French, not Scots.

And frankly, after the French players' pathetic showing all round at the WC, we must hope that he HASN'T got a typical Gallic mentality.....!!

[Stu]

 

 

 

[UV]

...'typical strong gaelic mentality..' Don't you mean GALLIC ? He's French, not Scots.

And frankly, after the French players' pathetic showing all round at the WC, we must hope that he HASN'T got a typical Gallic mentality.....!!

 

Gaelic, gallic, garlic, it's all smelly and foreign to me.

 

 

 

[Dave]

[TRon]

He is counterproductive to any attempt to play high energy attacking football.

 

It's not like Nolan is standing there while the rest of the team plays this high energy attacking football around him. We simply don't have the squad to play like that, and one new player will not magically turn the rest of them into a team that can play like that. We have to live with that fact for this season at least, and Hughton has to try and put together a team that works effectively week in week out with what he has.

 

Nolan is playing as a forward. His job is to get into positions to get chances, to score goals and set up others. He did it all last season and he's been doing it this season. As long as he keeps doing that, and as long as he keeps putting some of them away, then he's doing his job. If there's someone in the squad who can do that better than Nolan then fine - Shola? Lovenkrands? Ranger? - but I'm not sure why everyone is so keen to shoe-horn Ben Arfa into that position when he's been a midfielder most of his career.

 

You say "we looked far more threatening after his introduction". Well he replaced Gutierrez, not Nolan. Perhaps that's why we looked better.

best post in the thread imo

It is like that actually.

Ben Arfa also made a difference due to his individual efforts.

But so did taking off both our wingers, we lost what little shape and width we had and the game resembled a playground free for all.

Somehow Nolan survived the baffling changes and trundled about in his wading through treacle way, with the best view of all.

 

I'm pretty sure Nolan has also spent his entire career as a midfielder yet you seem to have no problem with him being shoe-horned into a forward role?

 

touche.

[Cronky]

Succesful football is about a system working well but our system is flawed and will be easy to defend against, i think we're already being found out with the current XI. Kevin Nolan may get 8 goals and assist 3 or 4 but what if Ben Arfa only gets 6 goals but creates 15? Surely that's more beneficial.

 

But if Ben Arfa replaces Nolan, you're talking about sticking with the same system anyway. Kevin Nolan may get 8 goals and assist 3 or 4. Gutierrez will typically get 1 or 2 goals and 3 or 4 assists in a decent league. So who would Ben Arfa most beneficially replace? Someone who scores goals, or someone who "creates space" and "relieves pressure"? By my count Ben Arfa has 18 careerer assists over 6 seasons and 170 appearances btw, so I don't know but perhaps hoping he's going to get 15 this season is maybe expecting a little too much?

 

 

I guess as long as Ben Arfa adapts quickly to a new position, team, country and league, hits the form of his life, maintains it, stays fit, can create his own chances, doesn't let his head drop when we're losing, when he's not getting the ball, or when he's targeted by the opposition, and has the typical strong gaelic mentality and maturity to handle the pressure of carrying the rest of the team, we'll be fine.

 

On the other hand, I hope we haven't put our single egg in a basket and counted it as a chicken already. So much of our hope for this season seems to be pinned on this lad. Thank goodness no-one wanted to buy him.

 

Although we're talking about Ben Arfa replacing Nolan in attack, I think the style of play would change quite a bit. It looks like Ben Arfa likes to drop deep and then run at a defence, or feed the ball forward into space, whereas Nolan tends to stay up alongside Carroll, looking for knock-downs. Basically, Ben Arfa is more the creator, Nolan the finisher, from that position. We'd have to make sure that our midfield players were ready to run into the space that Ben Arfa creates.

 

I'd have a go at putting Nolan into midfield with Ben Arfa up front, in the hope that Nolan would be able to also make runs into the box, along with Barton, and make use of Ben Arfa's creativity.

 

Of course, Tiote might be a better option, but we haven't seen him yet.

 

Nolan does look fitter than last year, albeit one-paced. Smith is the one that is really holding us back.

[Heron]

With regards to the current title; Bollocks.

[ponsaelius]

With regards to the current title; Bollocks.

 

Alan Smith: Useless

 

Kevin Nolan: Hindrance

 

I'd happily see the back of both of them.

 

 

[Hughesy]

Although this may not come as much of surprise to anyone, I can confirm that having seen Nolan walk off the pitch on Saturday without a shirt on, he is indeed fat.  There I was thinking that the bulges in his shirt were muscles...

[Mick]

 

Succesful football is about a system working well but our system is flawed and will be easy to defend against, i think we're already being found out with the current XI. Kevin Nolan may get 8 goals and assist 3 or 4 but what if Ben Arfa only gets 6 goals but creates 15? Surely that's more beneficial.

 

But if Ben Arfa replaces Nolan, you're talking about sticking with the same system anyway. Kevin Nolan may get 8 goals and assist 3 or 4. Gutierrez will typically get 1 or 2 goals and 3 or 4 assists in a decent league. So who would Ben Arfa most beneficially replace? Someone who scores goals, or someone who "creates space" and "relieves pressure"? By my count Ben Arfa has 18 careerer assists over 6 seasons and 170 appearances btw, so I don't know but perhaps hoping he's going to get 15 this season is maybe expecting a little too much?

 

 

I guess as long as Ben Arfa adapts quickly to a new position, team, country and league, hits the form of his life, maintains it, stays fit, can create his own chances, doesn't let his head drop when we're losing, when he's not getting the ball, or when he's targeted by the opposition, and has the typical strong gaelic mentality and maturity to handle the pressure of carrying the rest of the team, we'll be fine.

 

On the other hand, I hope we haven't put our single egg in a basket and counted it as a chicken already. So much of our hope for this season seems to be pinned on this lad. Thank goodness no-one wanted to buy him.

 

Playing our current system isn't the problem, the problem is that the personnel being used isn't up to it.  At least that's the case when Nolan is plodding around trying to back up Carroll.  Nolan might get 8 goals although I can't see that happening based on his performances so far. 

 

I think we’ll gain more from ditching him than we will by keep playing him as he’s very limited.  He got away with it last season in the Championship but he was just as limited when he wasn’t scoring and I think he holds our game back by living with his limited ability.  He must realise that he’s too slow because on Saturday he kept trying to get ahead of the defenders by constantly running off-side and he needs to do that because of his lack of pace.

 

As for Ben Arfa having something like 18 career assists, he’s 23 years old and has only started 91 games.  Nolan is 5 years older and only has 27 career assists in 309 starts so he’s assisted 9 more in over 3 times the number of games started.  Nolan has scored 58 league goals in that time, last season was his best and he scored almost double that of his best total in the Premiership.  Ben Arfa has scored 17 league goals so far which is on a par with Nolan although it has to be said in a weaker league than the Premiership, I wouldn’t say it’s weaker than the Championship where Nolan was at his best.

 

I can see little between the two sets of stat’s but in one I can see a player who is on the way up and offers something more than possibly being able to be in the right place at the right time, I see a player who can contribute to our game off and on for 90 minutes.

 

[johnnypd]

any good manager would have half an eye on phasing a player like Nolan out of the side, imo, but not yet. For a relegation threatened side he is still a good character to have around and he contributes a lot of end product in a team that doesn't have much goal threat about it. Just got to make sure you can cover for his obvious limitations - ie poor movement - by having more mobile players alongside him/dropping Smith.

 

I'd also say that, perhaps counter-intuitively, that one of Nolan's other weaknesses is a lack of creativity. Yes he scores a lot but that is usually finishing off the moves of others, the first to pounce on parried shots etc. If you compare him to a similar, slow, portly attacking midfielder in Charlie Adam you see straight away how different they are - one is very classy and intelligent on the ball and boosts the performances of those around him through invention, the other feeds off the hard work of other players like a parasite while offering little possession play, creativity, or defensive movement in return. bit harsh but you get the picture - Nolan is more of Geovanni or Elano than anything else - a luxury player- only with less sheer ability but more character.

 

eventually at home in winnable games it'll be him and Barton playing behind Ben Arfa, while away it'll be Barton-Tiote/Smith in midfield, Nolan behind the striker and Ben Arfa challenging for a wide position. i don't usually think there is much in the claims that Hughton will never drop Smith/Shola/Butt etc but with Nolan i actually think it is true.