Thespence Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 He doesn't have to win a world at all. Many of the great players are leaders, inspire others or take a team to beyond what is expected. IMO I have not seen a lot of that from Messi, of course it could be hard for him at Barca but he is the a man Argentina fans & players are looking at & for me he has not delivered yet. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 Let's see him perform as well on a cold Wednesday night in Stoke! Football was only invented in 1992, so who is this Pele and what is a Cruyff? Isn't Maradona that crazy coke-head? Cruyff's that dogs competition, right? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lush Vlad Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 The most amazing thing about Messi is his fitness levels and injury record. He's rarely injured and despite what people say about the Spanish league, he does get kicked from pillar to post. Most the time he just rides the challenge and carries on going! Add to that his consistency and you've got one of the best players ever. Although I'm not keen on trying to compare players from different generations. It's too difficult to do and people always come out with the usual lines "he needs to play for a different club" or "he needs to win a World Cup" He proves time and again how good he is in the best league in the world (my opinion) and in the Champions League, which I think is the pinnacle of world football. Plus, he also owes a lot to Barca, as they took a punt on him when he was about 4ft 10" when others rejected him. They play the best football in the world, he gets paid a shit load and Barca is an awesome place, why would he leave? I would like to see him in the Prem mind, but I don't think it will ever happen. The thought of him running at the likes of Gary Caldwell and Anton Ferdinand Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 Let's see him perform as well on a cold Wednesday night in Stoke! Football was only invented in 1992, so who is this Pele and what is a Cruyff? Isn't Maradona that crazy coke-head? Cruyff's that dogs competition, right? Won the league at Man United. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 Let's see him perform as well on a cold Wednesday night in Stoke! Football was only invented in 1992, so who is this Pele and what is a Cruyff? Isn't Maradona that crazy coke-head? Cruyff's that dogs competition, right? Won the league at Man United. Can't think of a Jordi pun. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 People are so zany using the term "Fat Ronaldo". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 People are so zany using the term "Fat Ronaldo". Well everyone knows CR7 is THE Ronaldo, so that other one needs a nickname innit. And he got overweight lolololol. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JH Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 People are so zany using the term "Fat Ronaldo". Well everyone knows CR7 is THE Ronaldo, so that other one needs a nickname innit. And he got overweight lolololol. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilko Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 The World Cup argument is stupid. His ability is there for all to see, regardless of what medals he's won. Djimi Traore has won the Champions League, does that make him one of football's great left backs? Agree with this attitude, btw. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 People are so zany using the term "Fat Ronaldo". SOWEEE Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 Villa doesn't look half as good in that Barcelone side and he HAS won a World Cup. That tournament is no longer a litmus test, if it ever was. i agree here. theres often lots of talk about international football being a step up but it rarely is. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenham Mag Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 For me, if Messi joined Newcastle and we actually won something, he would be regarded the greatest ever. People in a 100 years will be saying remember what Messi done for El Toon, by heck , they actually won something ffs, that was a miracle. Argentina winning a world cup is not a miracle. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skirge Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 By the time he retires he could be the best ever Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpal78 Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 The World Cup argument is stupid. His ability is there for all to see, regardless of what medals he's won. Djimi Traore has won the Champions League, does that make him one of football's great left backs? Agree with this attitude, btw. I don't quite follow the argument. For a player to be conisdered one of the greats, he should be excelling in all levels of competition and for all the teams (club and national team) he plays for. Nobody is saying that the World Cup or the Champions League are the only barometer, so the Djimi Traore example is clearly rubbish. Plus it's not just about having a medal, but the said player must have been the driving force and inspiration behind the team winning the medal. For the world cup, Zidane, Maradona, Ronaldo has all done this, Messi has not. He is clearly a super player with bags of skills, one of a kind but unless and until he can bring his Barcelona form to Argentina he won't be a world great, not yet at least. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobody Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 Going by the "have to win the world cup" argument, the best player in the world could really only come from about a handful of countries around the world. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 100% pointless trying to compare across generations anyway as they'll never compete with each other messi is the best on the planet now, that's as much as you can really say with any conviction Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRC Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 Messi is the most talented player ever I'd say, but "greatest" generally mean what a player has achieved or done for football. I'd say Fat Ronaldo is greater than Messi as he won more, and I'd say Maradona is the greatest of all time as in my opinion he evolved football than any other player. You could say Messi has evolved the game as Barca play ridiculous football, but that could be down to Xavi and Iniesta also. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliGupter Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 Cruyff evolved football more than any other player, imo. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fredbob Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 For me its down to what you define "greatest" as. Messi isnt quite there because he hasnt left some kind of footballing legacy on the game (obviously at such a young age I wouldnt expect him to either), all the players mentioned in the OP have in one way or another. World Cup is generally the acid test because its the pinnacle of the sporting achievment, it invokes all the elements of a legacy for a nation which is time proof. Obviosuly there are players like Best which are considered the greatest ever becasue they were part of a footballing dynasty, much like Di Stefano was with Madrid, its all part of footballing legend. If we were to translate this into another sport, Roger Federer was dominating the sports with consumate ease during his pomp yet very few classed him as the greatest as at the time his legend wasn't complete or near completion, even though it was clear that he was, I'm sure it will be the same with Messi, but only in a few years time. For me he is best player on the planet and one the the best 5 Ive ever seen, at the moment though. Xavi is the player who currently encapsulates greatness for me, up there with Zidane with how he dominates games. In my opinion. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 Cruyff evolved football more than any other player, imo. i kn ow what you mean but i disagree, he was the epitome of a strand that had been going for a while with beckenbauer and bobby charlton, george best, players who were quite far ahead of their times and cruyff came after them really. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 The reason few regarded Federer as the best of all time was his distinct lack of quality opposition from 03 - 07. You can't apply the same theory to Messi. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Village Idiot Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 Cruyff evolved football more than any other player, imo. i kn ow what you mean but i disagree, he was the epitome of a strand that had been going for a while with beckenbauer and bobby charlton, george best, players who were quite far ahead of their times and cruyff came after them really. Can't see how Cruyff relates to these players in style. But I agree that you can't peg total football just on him. But what that Dutch side did for football is one of the game's greatest revolutions, imho. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 Cruyff evolved football more than any other player, imo. i kn ow what you mean but i disagree, he was the epitome of a strand that had been going for a while with beckenbauer and bobby charlton, george best, players who were quite far ahead of their times and cruyff came after them really. Can't see how Cruyff relates to these players in style. But I agree that you can't peg total football just on him. But what that Dutch side did for football is one of the game's greatest revolutions, imho. in the style that they had a much newer idea of the game than what had been before. and were very, even as we would know it now "modern" footballers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fredbob Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 The reason few regarded Federer as the best of all time was his distinct lack of quality opposition from 03 - 07. You can't apply the same theory to Messi. What a load of nonsense. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Village Idiot Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 Cruyff evolved football more than any other player, imo. i kn ow what you mean but i disagree, he was the epitome of a strand that had been going for a while with beckenbauer and bobby charlton, george best, players who were quite far ahead of their times and cruyff came after them really. Can't see how Cruyff relates to these players in style. But I agree that you can't peg total football just on him. But what that Dutch side did for football is one of the game's greatest revolutions, imho. in the style that they had a much newer idea of the game than what had been before. and were very, even as we would know it now "modern" footballers. Can accept that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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