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Alan Pardew

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by Dave
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madras

madras

Posted
Posted

I'm really really quickly losing all faith in Pardew to be honest, we weren't particularly good (as far as performances went) last season but we rode our luck at times and did well to grind out results. This season though, I just don't get it. The problems are glaringly obvious to everyone except him. He deserves a bit of slack because of last season but this is a joke. It's not so much the results its the way they are coming about, we are so poor to watch, we look like a pub team and that's all on him and his coaches.

pretty much how i see it.
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madras

madras

Posted
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got any of your posts from the time we won 6 off the trot playing very good stuff ?

 

If you have a point to make, please make it. Broken clock is right twice a day, and with Ba/HBA/Cisse/Cabaye/Colo/Krul, Pardew's clock has proportionally been right twice in his day/tenure (6/49 now?).

so are there any ?

 

fwiw i didn't think we played 's***' outside of those 6 games though i did think we were capable of better and can't thinkm of too many games where we didn't get what we deserved.

 

Here you go - I take it you still have no point to make?

 

Krul 5 - Not worked. At fault for the goal, worst technical performance from a Dutchman I've ever seen :lol: Still love the cool motherfucker. :)

Simpson 6.5 - Mixed bag, tbh.

Williamson 7 - Generally solid I thought despite the hyperbole. Did well to recover from the goal, after a panicky few minutes. Think evidence of how good the performance was overall was how little Krul was worked. I know haters gon' hate though.

Colo 7.5 - Did well not to let the reverse fixture get to him. Very clever to get better starting positions this time around.

Jonas 8.5 - Magnificent sexy Argentinian b****** God.

Cabaye 8 - Understated role, but crucial. Best game in a while. Top job son.

Perch 9 - Can't ask for more from the lad. Did really well when he reverted back to CB too. Deserves a bonus for his form lately.

Guthrie 6.5 - Same old story for me. Did well in patches, bit lazy in others.

HBA 9 - Irresistible. No idea why he was subbed off ahead of other more jaded players.

Cisse 7.5 - Really good goals, bit worried about when he has time! Great start to his career/integrating into the league. Goals help (especially if you're job description is Poacher/Number 9 - but better overall play and link-up today. Work on your 1-on-1s, son! Very very happy with him.

Ba 8 - Again, no goals, but I'm happy with that :lol: Hopefully other rich kneejerk clubs will look elsewhere. Still a fantastic performance. Especially as he seemed tired. Great shift.

 

Shola Santon and Ferguson all did really well. Didn't give possession away, kept the ball on the floor. Professional :thup:

 

Pardew - top game. Weird subs. Very encouraging, Mr Pardew. Playing the ball.

 

 

the point is that you seem to be saying "i told you all along" when i'm guessing you werent saying he was cack and we ought to get rid when we were playing well.
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Begbie

Begbie

Posted
Posted

Has anyone got an explanation for why we did so well last season if he's so s***? (genuine question)

First of all if you still have fairh in Pardew, which drug are u on? Think I need it aswell to see the light in the tunnel

 

We did so well because we had better preparations.

- We played our first team players in the pre-season so they were ready when the campaign started.

- it looked like the team were more ready for whoever the oposition was and how they played

- He actually played different formations

- Pardew did less interviews, and focused more on the team(looks that way)

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Darth Crooks

Darth Crooks

Posted
Posted

Stoke's a massive game. Lose that - and I'd bet on it - and that's just not acceptable. 0 points from WHU, Swansea, Soton, Stoke.

Let's be honest. We all know how that game is going to turn out.

Zero points it is.

 

Going to that on Weds! Yipee ky fucking ay! Lost faith tbh. There is no change from game to game.

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Ste

Ste

Posted
Posted

He won't be sacked unless a significant amount of people stop going to games IMO. The cost of sacking him from his 8 year deal alone would be off putting enough.

 

We won't go down therefore he will stay.

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Tooj

Tooj

Posted
Posted

He won't be sacked unless a significant amount of people stop going to games IMO. The cost of sacking him from his 8 year deal alone would be off putting enough.

 

We won't go down therefore he will stay.

The deal will be filled with clauses.

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Dokko

Dokko

Posted
Posted

Hughton was sacked for less than this, incredible if the board back him after this run. Next game should seal his fate if I thought the board had any interest in keeping our best players.

 

Only qpr are worse than us right now, and they've made their change and a good one at that. You also know they'll invest heavily in the winter window whereas we will make a lot of noise and then sell someone.

 

Season was over weeks ago, last seasons flukes aren't happening and the true quality of the manager is coming through. There's a good core here, totally wasted by an inept manager and squad not added to sufficiently enough by a board more concerned with profits over performance.

 

Change the manager, don't change him, it'll make very little difference because we won't attract much better unless we take a punt on someone starting their career and basically fluke it, like every Ashley win in life and business.

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Beren

Beren

Posted
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got any of your posts from the time we won 6 off the trot playing very good stuff ?

 

If you have a point to make, please make it. Broken clock is right twice a day, and with Ba/HBA/Cisse/Cabaye/Colo/Krul, Pardew's clock has proportionally been right twice in his day/tenure (6/49 now?).

so are there any ?

 

fwiw i didn't think we played 's***' outside of those 6 games though i did think we were capable of better and can't thinkm of too many games where we didn't get what we deserved.

 

Here you go - I take it you still have no point to make?

 

Krul 5 - Not worked. At fault for the goal, worst technical performance from a Dutchman I've ever seen :lol: Still love the cool motherfucker. :)

Simpson 6.5 - Mixed bag, tbh.

Williamson 7 - Generally solid I thought despite the hyperbole. Did well to recover from the goal, after a panicky few minutes. Think evidence of how good the performance was overall was how little Krul was worked. I know haters gon' hate though.

Colo 7.5 - Did well not to let the reverse fixture get to him. Very clever to get better starting positions this time around.

Jonas 8.5 - Magnificent sexy Argentinian b****** God.

Cabaye 8 - Understated role, but crucial. Best game in a while. Top job son.

Perch 9 - Can't ask for more from the lad. Did really well when he reverted back to CB too. Deserves a bonus for his form lately.

Guthrie 6.5 - Same old story for me. Did well in patches, bit lazy in others.

HBA 9 - Irresistible. No idea why he was subbed off ahead of other more jaded players.

Cisse 7.5 - Really good goals, bit worried about when he has time! Great start to his career/integrating into the league. Goals help (especially if you're job description is Poacher/Number 9 - but better overall play and link-up today. Work on your 1-on-1s, son! Very very happy with him.

Ba 8 - Again, no goals, but I'm happy with that :lol: Hopefully other rich kneejerk clubs will look elsewhere. Still a fantastic performance. Especially as he seemed tired. Great shift.

 

Shola Santon and Ferguson all did really well. Didn't give possession away, kept the ball on the floor. Professional :thup:

 

Pardew - top game. Weird subs. Very encouraging, Mr Pardew. Playing the ball.

 

the point is that you seem to be saying "i told you all along" when i'm guessing you werent saying he was cack and we ought to get rid when we were playing well.

 

I always said he never demonstrated enough encouraging signs - through good and bad times, and I gave him credit where he looked to be showing encouraging signs, as the below excerpt with the Prophet attests to - but I was never convinced/won over. It may be painful for you to accept, I know, but you'll be okay.

 

 

 

I've been meaning to respond to this. You raise some very valid arguments, if I've missed any of them apologies:

 

I agree with you that Pardew is limited. With respect to the oft-touted 'meticulous pre-match preparation', the squad have on numerous occasions been quoted as being pleased with his organisational skills, and whilst I find that very commendable, it's actually quite incriminating too. For all his planning and research, he has been unable to assert his authority over teams, highlight their weaknesses or emphasise our strengths. We've won (where we have won) mostly by nicked goals and without controlling play for more than twenty minutes per game. This suggests to me that despite his laudable organisational skills, he is for the most part unable to apply anything he learns and prise performances out of what are (for me) undeniably talented resources.

 

We have, for most of the season, become difficult to turn over. Most of that was early season though if we're honest. Since that Man City match, I wouldn't call it "difficult to turn over" so much as quite lucky frankly. As usual, I will emphasise that good defending/keeping isn't luck, but when the opposition dictate the tempo and create more clear cut chances on a regular basis - I certainly don't think 'luck' doesn't play a part. That's just me, and I know it's a bit of a woolly argument - but games at Ewood, Molineux, OT, Anfield, Loftus Road and arguably others have been occasions where we've got more than our performance deserved - and but for better opposition finishing (as opposed to anything we did correctly) could easily have run away from us into Spurs (a) and Fulham (a) horror shows. I don't call that being 'difficult to turn over' although I would understand, if not agree, with the opposing viewpoint.

 

Given the absence of key members of our side in recent outings, I feel it is slightly harsh to include fixtures such as Blackburn and QPR in this argument, but at times this season it is true we have failed to exert our dominance over opposition sides. This is a pitty given the strength of our side lies in the spine, in particular our failure to utilise Cabaye's talents in the final third have to count as a strike against Pardew. This isn't to say he hasn't developed any strengths at all. He has a very average defense looking organised and capable of keeping clean sheets, something we've previously struggled with. He has limited players such as Simpson, Perch, Taylor, Guthrie and Best looking competent at Premier League level while he has the entire team working hard off the ball. These are strengths that are very simple to overlook but have contributed to our success this season. David Moyes instilled all these qualities into his early Everon sides and they very quickly reaped the rewards.

 

I think these qualities along with the ability of our core group of players have helped in making us a very difficult side to beat this season and while we have rode our luck at times, it certainly isn't a coincidence we keep grinding out results. It's also true we've been somewhat less solid since the injury to Taylor, but results such as those at Norwich (Colo and Tiote) and Spurs (Tiote and Cabaye) also resulted due to the absence of a two or three key players as opposed to just the one. Other scorelines such as those at Fulham have however manifested due to poor tactics but these have on the whole been rare.

 

You can point to that one match, and not many others I'd wager. Even I feel rather harsh saying a broken clock is right twice a day, but it does feel rather apt here given the weight of supporting evidence in the opposing column! The reason I called him an idiot (other than post-match anger!) is because of long-term issues which have not been sufficiently rectified or even addressed. Among these include his ability to change things/react during 90 minutes, his proclivity to wait until things break before he changes anything (cf. Chelsea at home), his persistence with Obertan until he got injured (he might still be starting if he hadn't been :lol:) and top-of-the-tree of my worries... the dogshit football we play 80% of the time. Even against weak opposition.

 

Then there's how we cede momentum when we're on top. Wolves (h) was the first time we've been punished notably for it - but many, many people have been bleating on about the risks he has been running since the very first games in the season (Wolves (a), Everton (h) among others).

 

These are examples off the top of my head - I worry how many 'warning games' I could dig out if I did any considered research.

 

These are all long-term issues which seem to go over the top of his head. This strikes me as a much better gauge of his abilities than isolated matches. I try to look at progression and development. At the start of the season, I remember saying I'd be interested to see how he learns and adapts.. and that there's room for improvement for both the team and the manager. He hasn't shown much improvement, if I'm honest. If he'd shown even medium-sized strides in the right direction I'd be edified that the work-in-progress is a worthwhile exercise. I know great teams don't happen overnight and there is great merit in having tenures the length of Wenger, Ferguson etc... but not if you've backed Steve Bruce, McLeish.

 

Patience with a manager, in and of itself, doesn't guarantee any decent yield for your time! I'm not saying Pardew is as bad as them, but I hope you see what I mean. It's now March, and Pardew is still alienating our best creative player while we continue to hoof from Krul to Cisse for a solid 45 minutes. That's daft in my book. We had to hit our season nadir today at half-time before he brought on HBA. As I said, that's desperation - not growth.

 

 

The two key criticisms I've had of Pardew are the failure to play Ben Arfa and the inability to use Cabaye correctly. These have been long term problems that undeniably need ironing out, however they're hardly enough for me to claim Pardew has done below-par or even an average job. On the contrary, there are numerous examples of defined plans against certain opposition. Against Man United we doubled up on Rooney while simultaneously playing a high line in order to counter the threat of Hernandez, against Villa (away) we persisted in attempting to exploit the lack of Villa's pace in full back by getting the ball out wide as soon as possible, while more recently at Fulham our attempts to double up on both Murphy and Dempsey forced Jol to successfully change his formation (I'm talking about the initial plan as opposed to the poor response or lack of in changing it).

 

Of course the issue appearing to cause most annoyance amongst fans at the moment is the football we've played. Recently it hasn't been pretty, until the second half of the mackem game we hadn't played particularly well since our first half at the Cottage. Of course the absence of key players is an issue but our football has generally been a mixed bag all season. We've gone from the very good (Mancs home, Villa away) to the average (Wigan home, Swansea home) to the damn right awful (Liverpool away, Wolves home). Our worst football seems to come when sides come at us and we go into contain mode. To cut a long story short we back off leaving the forwards isolated, with such a large gap between the midfield and the strikers our back line lump it forward at every opportunity. I think Pardew feels the need to do this due to weaknesses in the back line, particularly in full back (his obsession with hard working wingers supports this). While I don't personally with it I do understand it and as such I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt until we've acquired a couple of more quality personnel in the back line.

 

I also think another area hugely exaggerated as a weakness are Pardew's substitutions. They aren't always great but they aren't partiucalrly woeful either. Numerous times he's brought on Perch or Obertan to good effect. In our short Leage Cup run he won us games with a series of decent substitutions. He rarely gets it wrong and if there is a criticism of his changes it's that he leaves it too late on occasion.

 

I'll say it again I believe Pardew is an average manager but there's been more than enough progress and improvement this season for me to feel cautiously optimistic about the rest of the campaign as well as the next.

 

For the above reasons, I don't think I am being especially harsh. Maybe I'm playing up to the 'delusional Mag' but I'm willing to run that gauntlet. In terms of personnel, even accounting for our poor squad depth, we are top seven minimum IMO (on the strength of our first-team core/relatively injury-free season). Even taking into account that we only have 3 CBs. :lol: Draw what conclusions you will over the strength of the league, but I do think that is true for 2011/12. As ever, I sincerely hope he improves because it seems for better or worse he'll be here for a while.

 

I believe a big difference in our opinions is that you have a lot more faith in the quality of our squad than I do. In my view, we have a core of very good players (Krul, Colo, Tiote, Cabate, Ba), some who are still finding their way (Santon and Cisse) and the rest are average to dross. Frequently we've had to call on Perch, Taylor or Best who are lower Premier League standard at best. While it's entirely realistic we should be rising above the mid-table scramble without anything particularly special going on at the helm the fact we've pulled away with sides such as Arsenal, Chelsea and Liverpool (who have deeper, more quality squads) goes to show what a good job Pardew has done and although our football is very hit and miss there has been enough improvement this campaign for me to feel cautiously optimistic about our future under Pardew.

 

 

Cracking post :thup: Bit tired after work/having dins, but high-level response (still in work mode, as you can see):

 

  • You mount a really good case for the defence. Quite funnily (well, to my dry sense of humour tonight), you feel our divergence in opinions might stem from me believing our core players to be better than you think them to be - I feel perhaps you underrate our secondary players. 'Average to dross' seems harsh to me. Simpson, Williamson, Raylor, Guthrie are clearly not our best players - but with Newcastle those who aren't our best players always seem to be cast as 'championship or lower league level' instead. We polarise our opinions on players so much. I would say they are midtable players if I aggregate their various strengths and weaknesses. I would also probably point to our teams of yesteryear which flew with the ilk of Griffin, Hughes, OB1, Bramble, Dabizaz... I know you've already conceded Pardew isn't SBR-league, and i don't mean to imply that I expect Pardew to do what SBR did - but it does indicate to me that the idea that players who aren't our Bellamy/Robert/Solano (or now Ba/Tiote/Krul/Colo) can function just fine among a strong core of players who are flying high.
  • The football. You and I seem to look back at the season differently. Perhaps I articulated it poorly - but I wasn't talking about QPR and Blackburn alone. I mean the whole season. I mean 90 minute performances. I can think of  maybe five?
  • You're 100% spot on about the Man Utd and Aston Villa games. I was exceptionally proud of that away performance - still annoyed/flabbergasted we left with only a point. As I recall, Raylor fluffed the same ball about a million times after Gutierrez pulled his markers away from him. I concede that point - I lost the "wager" about you finding other examples. As a parting shot on this issue, I'd say these three instances have been exceptions rather than the norm though.
  • Pardews subs are okay. Although his (mis?)use of Samoebi earlier this season was frustrating. Mixed bag re: subs. Think that Spurs game from last year when they equalised in the last few minutes really impacted on Pardew. He seems so disinterested in stretching leads/killing games. We did lose our heads pouring forward in that Spurs game, but... we won't face a side of Spurs' counter-attacking prowess every time. Pardew has not appreciated this, and it has effected his subs too. Sometimes I've thought Perch was a good option - sometimes it's been an incredulous choice.
  • Don't see enough encouraging signs, myself. Can do nowt but hope and wait that you're right. Would love to see us play better football this season, or at least a few more glimpses. His 'edge of your seat football' advertising PR at the beginning of the season has been a really unwise move. His latest 'front foot fast brand' or whatever too. He seems really disingenuous and, IMO, patronising to what can be a knowledgeable set of fans in sections. He was earlier in the season asking for bigger crowds too with the promise of good football on show (before Wigan, or am I making that up?). Would love to see him start delivering on pledges he makes, or short of that - shutting up a bit more and being a bit honest in his interviews - even if it means he isn't so bloody cheery all the time :lol:
  • Should also stop talking about sovereign states :lol:
     

 

How the fuck is it 8pm. :fuuu:

 

Edit: Erm, oops. I'm too tired to even fix it. I'm gonna watch the game.

 

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