Guest firetotheworks Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 See, I find it hard to understand that someone would rather stay in this pergatory dressed as heaven under Ashley, than go through the hell of relegation if it meant getting rid of him. I don't see the point in staying in this league just to exist, when we could go down a level, two levels and for our hope to exist. In this situation we actively do not want to succeed in the way that we view it and that's not going to change. Whether Ashley 'cannot kill your hope' or not, it's fruitless because there ISN'T any hope, blindly following and hope are not the same thing. What is the point in supporting this? Well, would you rather be a hopeful Newcastle fan, or a hopeful Leeds/Sheffield United/Blackburn/[insert any other big club which has spent a good few years in the lower leagues] fan? It's no picnic being an NUFC fan under Ashley, but it's hardly purgatory. And it's not like we don't know what the aim of the club is under this regime. I don't like it, but I'd take that over being in the position Sheff Utd etc find themselves in. I'd even take it over being a gunners fan, being constantly fed shite about how they're all about the trophies and not 4th place, or a spurs fan being told they're not being run as a business and they have genuine chance to become a top 4 club with just one or two more players. They're the fans who are being lied to. My hope is not forelorne. It's based on the fact that all we have in the way of our ambitions is the owner. Can the gunners or the yids say that? Christ, can the mackems say that? I almost pissed myself when Saint Niall suggested all they need to do to turn their basket case of club around is persuade the 'little general' to stick around beyond the end of the season. Going through that, it's not a choice between those two things. It's not choosing whether to be a hopeful NUFC (under Ashley) or a hopeful Leeds etc fan, those aren't the only choices available. That's daft. I don't see how it's not purgatory. We're in a perpetual state of aiming for the middle, aiming at being average, not succeeding, not failing, just being in the middle and existing. Calling it purgatory dressed as heaven is the perfect analogy for it imo. And again, it's not a choice between being us or being Sheffield United, why is that even a relevant thing to bring up? It's one-sided cherry picking. And the Arsenal and Spurs bit. Err, what? You cannot be serious? You'd rather be in our position than in Arsenal's position, where gross underachievement is winning the FA Cup, playing in a Champions League final and playing great football along the way? Aye, you're right, give me Mike Williamson hoofing it up to dwarves, Jack Colback pratting about in midfield and deliberately going out of the League and FA Cup every year. Honestly man, is there something wrong with you? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpolic Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 Arsenal won a trophy a year ago, play the top teams in Europe every season, play the best football in the league and have some of the most exciting players to watch. Howay man. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mako Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 See, I find it hard to understand that someone would rather stay in this pergatory dressed as heaven under Ashley, than go through the hell of relegation if it meant getting rid of him. I don't see the point in staying in this league just to exist, when we could go down a level, two levels and for our hope to exist. In this situation we actively do not want to succeed in the way that we view it and that's not going to change. Whether Ashley 'cannot kill your hope' or not, it's fruitless because there ISN'T any hope, blindly following and hope are not the same thing. What is the point in supporting this? Well, would you rather be a hopeful Newcastle fan, or a hopeful Leeds/Sheffield United/Blackburn/[insert any other big club which has spent a good few years in the lower leagues] fan? It's no picnic being an NUFC fan under Ashley, but it's hardly purgatory. And it's not like we don't know what the aim of the club is under this regime. I don't like it, but I'd take that over being in the position Sheff Utd etc find themselves in. I'd even take it over being a gunners fan, being constantly fed s**** about how they're all about the trophies and not 4th place, or a spurs fan being told they're not being run as a business and they have genuine chance to become a top 4 club with just one or two more players. They're the fans who are being lied to. My hope is not forelorne. It's based on the fact that all we have in the way of our ambitions is the owner. Can the gunners or the yids say that? Christ, can the mackems say that? I almost p*ssed myself when Saint Niall suggested all they need to do to turn their basket case of club around is persuade the 'little general' to stick around beyond the end of the season. You what mate? I guess I'm trying to say I'm happy being an NUFC fan if all I have is hope of what could happen if Ashley was gotten rid of, rather than being be an Arsenal fan who apparently has to accept perennial 4th and an unconvincing cup win is success given their resources, or a Spurs fan who has to apparently believe their perennial failure to improve their lot isn't a systemic issue of their financial and footballing resources being misused (and it remains to be seen if Spurs will have to cut back on spending due to stadium debt in the same way Arsenal had to). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Crooks Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 What the actual fuck? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nemtizz Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 With their expectations Arsenal fans don't have it perfect at all, but ffs I'd take that in a heartbeart. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mako Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 We do not need to be relegated to get rid of Ashley. And actually, what logic is that view even based on? We already have been relegated under Ashley, and he stayed put! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
54 Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 Na he has to be a wind up merchant, no one in their right mind would rather be in our situation, then being in one like Arsenal's, who are currently 2nd, still in the FA cup, and only got knocked out of the Champions League due to away goal, all while playing attractive football. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 You see, this is what we're up against. This is why the world is fucked. Absolutely Idiocracy in our fanbase. Rather be an NUFC that could be without Ashley than An Arsenal fan...and that's before levelling the playing field in this absurd scenario by saying that Arsenal could pay off their stadium and start buying players like Ozil and Sanchez...oh wait. Honestly man, I've heard it all now. I can only assume that an ip trace would lead back to St Nicks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 We do not need to be relegated to get rid of Ashley. And actually, what logic is that view even based on? We already have been relegated under Ashley, and he stayed put! Based on the fact that he tried to sell us the last time that we were relegated and that he's only interested in money? Howeh, keep up man. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varadi Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 Newcastle The saddest indictment of the malaise surrounding Newcastle United is that their derby defeat was not met with great anger by the majority of supporters. Nor sadness. Nor embarrassment. A fifth consecutive defeat to their hated rivals, and there was no outpouring of grief on Tyneside. Just nothingness; nothingness as far as the eye can see. Under Mike Ashley, Newcastle have become a shell, the husk of a once great club. Not great in terms of league titles or trophies, but great in the eyes of the people. For so long they were an institution to adoring Geordies, who deemed St James' Park their church. Now the ground casts a shadow over the city like the foreboding headquarters of a dictatorship. The limp, listless defeat to Sunderland may well cause the eventual end of John Carver, an event fans will celebrate. Carver is synonymous with Ashley's regime. The local accent and references to Bobby Robson and Gary Speed are cheap and convince nobody. Losing Pardew and appointing Carver was like sacking Ant to appoint Dec, as this column has said before. Yet losing Carver, just like losing Pardew, doesn't change the bigger picture. So long as the owner is happy to embrace mediocrity, Newcastle will continue to stagnate. Fewer players and managers will be tempted to walk through the door. They will remain a club catching moss. More importantly, an increasing number of supporters will stop feeling angry or upset, and just feel nothing. It's unthinkable to many in Newcastle, but the only way to force change is to vote with their feet. The inaction of a billionaire owner persuading thousands of Geordie to fall out of love with Newcastle United might just be modern football's greatest trick yet. http://www.football365.com/winners-losers/9792101/W-L-Newcastle-The-Shell-Of-A-Club... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mako Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 I'm quite confident in the fact that the very same people who aren't happy with the lack of ambition of NUFC under Ashley, would be equally dissatisfied if we ended up like Arsenal, where the aim is quite clearly to play well, maybe win a cup every decade, but do not under any circumstances do anything if it puts at risk that 4th place finish. That really isn't all that different to Ashley's approach when examined critically. I fucking loved it when we we playing the likes of Barcelona, but those of you who can't see my point do appreciate what the difference was, right? In that era, we actually had a chance of beating those top sides. We didn't come second in the league by accident, it was by merit. Fast forward to today, and not even the most deluded of Arsenal fans is likely to be approaching any of those European games with the same confidence or excitement we did, or would do again, if we got rid of Ashley and got owners who weren't satisfied with simply finishing 4th and posting good financials year on year. I suspect most of them approach European nights with the depressing realisation that there stay in the competition will likely be short (as it has been most seasons). This is not merely bad luck, it's by design. Not purgatory, no, but not my idea of heaven either. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 Jesus wept. I cannot believe that this isn't WUM'ing. I honestly thought I'd seen it all on here. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Pinkman Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 I really hope he is a WUM otherwise he should be seeking professional help, wafflings of a mad man. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troll Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 Moving away from Newcastle, combined with the Ashley/Pardew/Carver era has just taken away any love I had for the club. I didn't even watch the derby yesterday, just didn't care. It didn't hurt when I found out we lost, I just expected it. But now I'm in a weird situation because my second team are Bournemouth. They're usually in the third or fourth tier so there's never been any issue with them coming up against each other, and if they'd ever somehow made it to the top level I'd always have supported Newcastle. But now I'm really excited about them in the Premier League next season with their ambition and a great young manager and players - basically everything to like about them is everything NUFC lack. I think next season I'll be following them and just ignoring the games vs us. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlito Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 Goodness sake man. Fucking hell :lol: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallowgate Toon Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 Frankly, that's the most insane thing I've ever read. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mako Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 Come on people. You all know that deep down Arsenal fans are looking at the state of their current season in the same way we would look at being 5th at this stage under Ashley - with complete surprise and a knowing dread that it's not by design or ambition. This is a momentary departure from their 21st century pattern of existence, which normally sees them knocked out of all cups, fade away in the title race, and get knocked out of Europe, all in the space of a few weeks in the second half of the season. And this season, they were knocked out of Europe by Monaco. Mon-a-co. Do people not realise what a shit state that club is actually currently in? Not a ringing endorsement of the current Arsenal regime, is it? None of this is any kind of argument that if NUFC were regularly in Europe and had just won the cup, I would be anything but happy. All I'm trying to say is that not every club that is above us in the table is as ambitious or successful in the same way I think most NUFC fans interpret those terms or would believe is the club's true potential given the right owner. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sempuki Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 I'm quite confident in the fact that the very same people who aren't happy with the lack of ambition of NUFC under Ashley, would be equally dissatisfied if we ended up like Arsenal, where the aim is quite clearly to play well, maybe win a cup every decade, but do not under any circumstances do anything if it puts at risk that 4th place finish. That really isn't all that different to Ashley's approach when examined critically. I f***ing loved it when we we playing the likes of Barcelona, but those of you who can't see my point do appreciate what the difference was, right? In that era, we actually had a chance of beating those top sides. We didn't come second in the league by accident, it was by merit. Fast forward to today, and not even the most deluded of Arsenal fans is likely to be approaching any of those European games with the same confidence or excitement we did, or would do again, if we got rid of Ashley and got owners who weren't satisfied with simply finishing 4th and posting good financials year on year. I suspect most of them approach European nights with the depressing realisation that there stay in the competition will likely be short (as it has been most seasons). This is not merely bad luck, it's by design. Not purgatory, no, but not my idea of heaven either. Bizarre. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shays Given Tim Flowers Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 Come on people. You all know that deep down Arsenal fans are looking at the state of their current season in the same way we would look at being 5th at this stage under Ashley - with complete surprise and a knowing dread that it's not by design or ambition. This is a momentary departure from their 21st century pattern of existence, which normally sees them knocked out of all cups, fade away in the title race, and get knocked out of Europe, all in the space of a few weeks in the second half of the season. And this season, they were knocked out of Europe by Monaco. Mon-a-co. Do people not realise what a s*** state that club is actually currently in? Not a ringing endorsement of the current Arsenal regime, is it? None of this is any kind of argument that if NUFC were regularly in Europe and had just won the cup, I would be anything but happy. All I'm trying to say is that not every club that is above us in the table is as ambitious or successful in the same way I think most NUFC fans interpret those terms or would believe is the club's true potential given the right owner. You're saying nothing at all and using many words to do it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
54 Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 I'm quite confident in the fact that the very same people who aren't happy with the lack of ambition of NUFC under Ashley, would be equally dissatisfied if we ended up like Arsenal, where the aim is quite clearly to play well, maybe win a cup every decade, but do not under any circumstances do anything if it puts at risk that 4th place finish. That really isn't all that different to Ashley's approach when examined critically. I fucking loved it when we we playing the likes of Barcelona, but those of you who can't see my point do appreciate what the difference was, right? In that era, we actually had a chance of beating those top sides. We didn't come second in the league by accident, it was by merit. Fast forward to today, and not even the most deluded of Arsenal fans is likely to be approaching any of those European games with the same confidence or excitement we did, or would do again, if we got rid of Ashley and got owners who weren't satisfied with simply finishing 4th and posting good financials year on year. I suspect most of them approach European nights with the depressing realisation that there stay in the competition will likely be short (as it has been most seasons). This is not merely bad luck, it's by design. Not purgatory, no, but not my idea of heaven either. Let's examine Arsenal shall we, they are currently second and are there by merit, are currently on a rich vain of form, and should Chelsea slip up could have a chance of the title, also in the last two season they have signed both Ozil and Sanchez arguably two of the best players in the world on their day. They also invest in youth like Ramsey, Chamberlain and to a certain extent Walcott. They are an up and coming team that could win the title within the next few year. They are also currently still in the FA cup and by all accounts having a good go at it, a competition they also won last season, and don't treat it with contempt. The argument that their fans would be disappointed with playing team like Barcelona, tell that to the packed out stadium that was in attendance of their game against Monaco last month, let alone a team like Barca. Compare that to us, we are happy with is mid table, there is no ambition, no believe, no pride. We don't seek glory in fact we actively avoid it as it could potentially spoil that TV revenue money, so we can't even dream of getting into the Europa League let alone the Champions League, and put out second string teams in the Fa and League cups. We barly spend money on players, and if we do it's so that they can be sold at a profit at a later date, the only players under Ashley's tenure that have came through are Dummett and Sammy, hardly inspiring. The fan's are starting to leave, and apathy has set in, not many people cared about the defeat yesterday there was no anger, no malaise, just apathy. So how do we have it better again? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 It still makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. Even taking your assumption at face value and saying that Arsenal fans are unhappy, despite having a higher level of success than us, you're saying that you'd rather be unhappy and be less successful. It's fucking nar nar. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 This is the kind of horseplop that people moan gets chased off the forum. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiresias Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 I can understand Arsenal fans frustration to some extent, they're a club that explicitly want to compete at the highest level and time and time again are found wanting. (albeit I think the club have been fairly honest when it comes to their lack of spending power while paying for the stadium). Why is it better to not have the european nights? :lol: I don't get that, it's genuine madness. it's someone desperately wanting to be a contrarian for no reason Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben-nufc Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 getting relegated 10 times You class yourself as a "supporter" of Newcastle, and you're saying s*** like this. Wow. I'd much rather support a Newcastle United that attempted to be a f***ing sporting club. Maybe you've forgotten what a professional sport club is about so let me do the painfully obvious here....we aren't going out there to compete to win matches, we aren't trying to develop any local talent nor recruit any local talent, we aren't trying to retain our best players, we aren't trying to sign any new players to improve the squad, we aren't trying to hire the best manager possible to lead this club, we aren't trying to hire director or chairman with knowledge of football. What exactly is the point of our club if not to promote Sports Direct? What is exactly is the point of supporting a football club that doesn't give an ounce back of what WE put into the club? If you can't see through this bull s*** then anyone who "supports the team" in the manner they do are just as weak and implicit as the rest of the lambs that turn up and drink this s*** up. But, lick, listen, the players aren't on their holidays, I find that quite offensive actually. We have Sammy, Dummett, Colback and Saylor, and we're employing Carver, Beardsley and Stone. What more do you want? All local lads with lots of pashun. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 This is the kind of horseplop that people moan gets chased off the forum. Exactly. The consensus against the club has made it so that debate has to involve utter lunacy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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