Jamaal Lascelles

[Kanj]

Lascelles kicking off at the lads who didn't give a shit when we went down, him being the leader under Rafa, his time as a properly good CB in the back 3, his never ending commitment to the fans and putting his best for the club. I'd love to see him get a taste of Europe as an NUFC player. Even if as a cameo off the bench or just on the bench. 

[Infatuation Junkie]

Training week in week out with these robots at the back will make him a changed man.

 

I think he may do a solid if he ever got a start again.

[The Prophet]

Lascelles, Ritchie and Murphy all sound like well liked, important lads in the dressing room. I don't think we'll shift them all at once. 

 

Lascelles has always just been a solid, if not average Premier League centre back, but his confidence was completely shot to pieces by the time he was dropped.

[gbandit]

Can we not just get him to lead on coaching headers? Have no doubt that if he’d played similar minutes to Schar and Botman he’d have scored 2-3 headers at least 

[andycap]

He will get some decent playing time next year anyway cups Europe plus howe seems to like replacing schar with a right footer. 

[Tiresias]

1 hour ago, 80 said:

On a separate but related note, I hope people understand our priority next season is the league again, not Europe. I see comments about how much we're gonna need to sign to be competitive there next year. And it's true.

 

But there's only so much we're gonna be able to do, so there's probably going to be a lot of balancing acts going on in terms of tactics and morale. If it boiled down to it, I'd be happy seeing Lascelles and Krafth running out for us against Bayern on a Wednesday night if it was about keeping Trippier and Botman right for a Brentford game on the Saturday. Repeated league advancement is what will sustain the club.

Really? Happy to throw champions League for finishing closer to the title? We wait nearly 20 years to get back to the champions League and you want to throw the bteam in? 

 

I know League team will suffer but what is the fucking point of finishing top 4 anyway if not to play the best and try out best? No chance we'll get far first time out but playing the b team to beat Brentford? What?

[80]

5 minutes ago, Tiresias said:

Really? Happy to throw champions League for finishing closer to the title? We wait nearly 20 years to get back to the champions League and you want to throw the bteam in? 

 

I know League team will suffer but what is the fucking point of finishing top 4 anyway if not to play the best and try out best? No chance we'll get far first time out but playing the b team to beat Brentford? What?

And fuck ourselves like West Ham? If we don't match this season next season near enough game for game, it'll end up being for nought ultimately. And then we'll have to be happy watching Klopp and Brighton in Europe instead.

[Shak]

10 minutes ago, Tiresias said:

Really? Happy to throw champions League for finishing closer to the title? We wait nearly 20 years to get back to the champions League and you want to throw the bteam in? 

 

I know League team will suffer but what is the fucking point of finishing top 4 anyway if not to play the best and try out best? No chance we'll get far first time out but playing the b team to beat Brentford? What?

 

 

Can sense the absolute annoyance in this post.

[80]

It's worth remembering we went to Bayer Leverkusen last time out and beat them with Shola Ameobi and Lua Lua up front.

[80]

1 minute ago, Shak said:

 

 

Can sense the absolute annoyance in this post.

Precisely why I posted. We don't need these kind of tantrums...

[Ace]

The problem is if you keep Lascelles he is on decent wages and will take up a squad place which could be used to bring in a younger CB who can be brought in slowly to be Svens long term partner.

 

You keep Lascelles for sentimental reasons and you are putting pressure on an ageing Schar to keep up his level of performance and stay fit. 

[Ace]

5 hours ago, 80 said:

It's worth remembering we went to Bayer Leverkusen last time out and beat them with Shola Ameobi and Lua Lua up front.

It’s also worth remembering the other 9 playing weren’t a kick in the arse off our best first team and Shearer/Bellamy were suspended.

 

We did well that year and created memories from playing as strong teams as we could do it’s the opposite of your point.

 

Big players come to play champions league, do you think the likes of Bruno, Sven, Isak and the Joes would be happy to sit on the bench vs Real/Bayern/PSG to wait for Burnley away?

 

Thats a quick way to put players off coming to you. 

[Tiresias]

10 hours ago, 80 said:

Precisely why I posted. We don't need these kind of tantrums...

 

We are not going to end up like West ham or squad is already significantly better, but yes i do anticipate there will be a negative impact on League performance. I guess unless we are actually going for the title i don't see the point of finishing in to 4 if we're going to write off or European games. 

 

Now i could understand under those circumstances doing what you suggest in domestic cups. But the best players who join us will join us to play in Europe. I don't imagine we will easily get out of the group stage anyway first attempt but just putting all our eggs into accumulating more points is a soulless objective imo.

[80]

7 hours ago, Ace said:

It’s also worth remembering the other 9 playing weren’t a kick in the arse off our best first team and Shearer/Bellamy were suspended.

 

We did well that year and created memories from playing as strong teams as we could do it’s the opposite of your point.

 

Big players come to play champions league, do you think the likes of Bruno, Sven, Isak and the Joes would be happy to sit on the bench vs Real/Bayern/PSG to wait for Burnley away?

 

Thats a quick way to put players off coming to you. 

Of course not, that's why my post specifically said it's going to be a tricky balancing act in terms of morale and tactics. And the scenario I wrote involved two players being rested rather than eleven. Unless you see a 33 year old Trippier making 50-60 starts next season?

 

But a quicker way of putting players off us ultimately is not being in the Champion's League/Europe the following season. We're making it in by the skin of our arse this season, and it's fantastic. And the ramifications are clearly massive in terms of new players we can attract and afford, and current players we can hold onto. That's why the next stage for our club is to try and make that a regular, expected occurrence while we build our strength for actually winning the competitions we enter. And it's why, given how rapidly we've risen, it's probably going to force us to make some difficult tradeoffs - our current second eleven couldn't even handle Sheffield Wednesday this season.

[SiLvOR]

Discussing the intricacies of Champions League campagins in the Jamaal Lascelles thread. Who would have thought 

 

 

Edited April 26, 2023 by SiLvOR

[80]

3 hours ago, Tiresias said:

 

We are not going to end up like West ham or squad is already significantly better, but yes i do anticipate there will be a negative impact on League performance. I guess unless we are actually going for the title i don't see the point of finishing in to 4 if we're going to write off or European games. 

 

Now i could understand under those circumstances doing what you suggest in domestic cups. But the best players who join us will join us to play in Europe. I don't imagine we will easily get out of the group stage anyway first attempt but just putting all our eggs into accumulating more points is a soulless objective imo.

I appreciate this post, I do think you're a good poster fwiw.

 

But as I was saying in the post above, to me it's just about steadying the foundations of the club. I don't want to write off our European games but think we'll have to pick our battles to make sure we have more of them and win more of them in the future. I don't think there's such a thing as qualifying/getting promoted too soon for a club, but it definitely can mean it's more precarious for some than others.

 

I mean, there are a ton of people who would far rather have won the League Cup than get Champion's League this year for the romance of it and the statement that we'd finally won something/anything. And now you're suggesting writing off that competition to have a better tilt at a few CL group stage games

 

So really what I'm getting at is that one way or another - unless we buy 7+ first teamers - some people are going to get disappointed with our approach to certain games next season. And I'd rather try and do my bit to head off that conversation now because despite everything I can imagine the Eddie Howe thread getting flooded with posts about his naiveté if we rotate a few players and get pumped in Turin or somewhere. But ultimately he's more likely to lose his job, and we're more likely to lose a Botman et al, if a handful of games like Brentford away go a different way next season and we end up 7th rather than 4th and start the club on a new, worse, trajectory.

 

Also, to finish off and be extra clear, I'm not talking about just aiming to hover in 4th. I think there's real room for us to become full title contenders in the not too distant future. We had a lot of winnable draws this season...

 

 

Edited April 26, 2023 by 80

[andycap]

8 hours ago, Ace said:

The problem is if you keep Lascelles he is on decent wages and will take up a squad place which could be used to bring in a younger CB who can be brought in slowly to be Svens long term partner.

 

You keep Lascelles for sentimental reasons and you are putting pressure on an ageing Schar to keep up his level of performance and stay fit. 

It's only for a season I would think while we bolster elsewhere. Cannot do too much recruiting in one window. 

[80]

*Just been reminded that it's probably the top 5 who qualify for CL next season, which does change the conversation in our favour a bit...

[Tiresias]

54 minutes ago, 80 said:

I appreciate this post, I do think you're a good poster fwiw.

 

But as I was saying in the post above, to me it's just about steadying the foundations of the club. I don't want to write off our European games but think we'll have to pick our battles to make sure we have more of them and win more of them in the future. I don't think there's such a thing as qualifying/getting promoted too soon for a club, but it definitely can mean it's more precarious for some than others.

 

I mean, there are a ton of people who would far rather have won the League Cup than get Champion's League this year for the romance of it and the statement that we'd finally won something/anything. And now you're suggesting writing off that competition to have a better tilt at a few CL group stage games

 

So really what I'm getting at is that one way or another - unless we buy 7+ first teamers - some people are going to get disappointed with our approach to certain games next season. And I'd rather try and do my bit to head off that conversation now because despite everything I can imagine the Eddie Howe thread getting flooded with posts about his naiveté if we rotate a few players and get pumped in Turin or somewhere. But ultimately he's more likely to lose his job, and we're more likely to lose a Botman et al, if a handful of games like Brentford away go a different way next season and we end up 7th rather than 4th and start the club on a new, worse, trajectory.

 

Also, to finish off and be extra clear, I'm not talking about just aiming to hover in 4th. I think there's real room for us to become full title contenders in the not too distant future. We had a lot of winnable draws this season...

 

 

 

 

Fair enough really, but I do think some of the season has to be about having a fun adventure. I do agree it is a difficult balance to be made, and yes would be great to solidify place in league, but this is all about Howe learning to (and I definitely think this is an area he needs to address for next season) rotate efficiently. I think player morale will suffer more for fielding weaker teams for europe more than anything. 

 

I think if we signed 7+ players we would be disappointed either way as I don't think so many will all fit in well immediately either. It's going to be tough I just don't think we can afford to field 'weakened' teams in champions league, we will get torn apart, half the players will think well I didn't sign to not even try and we will lose momentum etc. I can totally see us missing out on 4th next season as Chelsea, Liverpool, Spurs and Man U are all likely to be substantially better. Maybe it will be that we get knocked out with a slightly weakened team, but I just can't get behind saying brentford away is a bigger game than a champs league tie. 

 

We want to be competing at the top we need to learn to balance it all, not throw one for the sake of one other competition. If we finish 6th next season, so what, we aren't in financial trouble, the club will keep refreshing the squad, we will get there to winning the league one day. Maybe it's because I think that's still a waaaay off anyway. 

[80]

Re: the last bit, and winning the league, I think it's a game of fine margins. If we'd lost Trippier instead of Krafth with an ACL and say Bruno instead of Isak with his thigh, we could easily be bumping around 8th at the moment. Conversely, we could easily have an extra 10 points right now with our current squad (e.g. +3 points at Anfield, +4 points at home to Palace and Leeds etc. etc.). Which would put us 6 points behind Arsenal with a game in hand and them still to come here... So it's not about expectations for me, but amazing things can happen.

 

Agree with your first paragraph. I definitely think next season will be a learning experience for Howe in a few different ways. Again, that's why I'm really just about enjoying the experience and making sure we get to enjoy the fruits of those lessons the season after. It'll be a learning experience for the players too, as they'll have to individually confront how far they can push their bodies and come up with different ways to win battles in unusual circumstances. We seemingly didn't manage that too well one we reached the business end of the League Cup this season and had a 3 month dip as a result.

 

Going back to the Robson days, one of the tragedies for me about Partizan Belgrade is that our team had really matured nicely in 02-03 and were starting to look like seasoned European campaigners after our baptism of fire. But 12 months later all the progress and cultural growth we had made was shredded. I don't believe that'll happen this time thanks to our new owners, but I definitely want to guard against it and preserve as much of what we've gained so far as we can.

[Ace]

11 hours ago, andycap said:

It's only for a season I would think while we bolster elsewhere. Cannot do too much recruiting in one window. 

Think it is all dependent on who we get elsewhere and how much we spend. In my head I see 6 incomings and a RCB is somewhere between the 4th or 6th priority 

[Ace]

12 hours ago, 80 said:

Of course not, that's why my post specifically said it's going to be a tricky balancing act in terms of morale and tactics. And the scenario I wrote involved two players being rested rather than eleven. Unless you see a 33 year old Trippier making 50-60 starts next season?

 

But a quicker way of putting players off us ultimately is not being in the Champion's League/Europe the following season. We're making it in by the skin of our arse this season, and it's fantastic. And the ramifications are clearly massive in terms of new players we can attract and afford, and current players we can hold onto. That's why the next stage for our club is to try and make that a regular, expected occurrence while we build our strength for actually winning the competitions we enter. And it's why, given how rapidly we've risen, it's probably going to force us to make some difficult tradeoffs - our current second eleven couldn't even handle Sheffield Wednesday this season.

Your post I replied to  was about going to Leverkusen with Shola and Lua Lua. Shearer and Bellamy weren’t rested they were suspended. 
 

I would agree Tripps is going to miss games but he should miss the league game over champions league, the same with our other quality players (if we get there)

 

Its a fine balancing act, you need better players and more depth to have any chance of getting back in but the risk is if you don’t you then lose those players. It’s just part and parcel of it all really. 

In reality if we get in we will most likely have (unless we get very lucky in the draw) 2 top quality teams so there is a good chance we only have 6 champions league games and with a slightly higher quality  squad it’s manageable to go for those games IMO without totally ruining our league chances. 

 

[Viana]

Prior to January I’d have said he was nailed on to go back to Forest in the summer.

 

I don’t imagine they’ll want to do business with us again, but either way he needs to be playing.

 

For this system Howe plays you either need to be agile or technical, he’s neither. 

[Paullow]

He's not even 29 and a half. Thought he was far older than that for some reason, like at least 32. Aye, it's surely too early for him just to be a lad in the changing room. He could easily have 3 or 4 decent years at a yo-yo type club.

[SteV]

Was noticeable he paired up with Gordon on all the drills in the warm-up yesterday. Proper captain.