Rafael Benitez

[themanupstairs]

Fully prepared to be shot down on this one - but have we just decided to write off a series of players too early?  Take Riviere for example - I fully appreciate that the bloke looked massively out of his depth in the Premier League, but in many ways he seems to fit the bill for what we need in a striker (or at least a back up striker).  He's quite quick and mobile, he's got decent enough strength and presence and despite being a very different league has scored the odd goal in Ligue 1.

 

I'd say similar for Saivet whilst fully acknowledging the fact that being a defensive midfielder in Ligue 1 is a very different proposition to the Championship, but we didn't even give the bloke a chance.  He might, just might, have the mobility to add something to our central midfield.  It's not exactly a high hurdle currently.

 

Agree with all this. Unless they are asking for moves away, they should be given chances. It's absolutely insane that we just buy and sell players without ever really giving them a chance. Especially when they can't possibly be doing worse than those who started ahead of them.

[Jayson]

Just wanted to say i agree on Tiote btw, understand he's not well looked upon but he was superb in the prem end of last season. The guy still has the ability, makes no sense to not be playing him. Sissoko constantly talks us down, Tiote says nowt and has played well most times recently? Dont fully get why we're intent on moving him on, he must train awfully or be a really bad influence. Why buy players when you have someone who could anchor a midfield in the prem?

 

Could be massively unfit, again?  Used to always turn up to pre-season looking a bit fat, if I remember rightly? 

 

Must be. As you said even Saivet has been playing a top level?

 

I dont get this Hayden lad starting, nothing against him. He started about 9 games for Hull last season, hows he walked into our starting line up? He wasnt exactly hugely influential in them making the playoffs as he played less than 10 games worth of minutes. His choice seems bizarre, surely a 21 year old should be getting gradually brought in.

[Mattoon]

Tiote played well towards the end of last season, the only explanation I can find for him not playing is he's one of the players Rafa intimated about in the supporters meeting. Saivet is just a mystery, how did he ever end up here? Fwiw I'd still give Sissoko a game while he's here, even a not fully focused Sissoko can't be much worse than we're seeing at the moment.

 

I also agree with the mentality, yes confidence will grow with a win but I think mental fortitude is at such a low ebb right now we'd soon collapse if we went a goal down again, we need a good run and soon.

[Lush Vlad]

Tiote played well towards the end of last season, the only explanation I can find for him not playing is he's one of the players Rafa intimated about in the supporters meeting. Saivet is just a mystery, how did he ever end up here? Fwiw I'd still give Sissoko a game while he's here, even a not fully focused Sissoko can't be much worse than we're seeing at the moment.

 

I also agree with the mentality, yes confidence will grow with a win but I think mental fortitude is at such a low ebb right now we'd soon collapse if we went a goal down again, we need a good run and soon.

 

Ask Disco about Mondial Sports! 

 

Had so many players that are represented by them.  Some good, some utter shite. 

 

Obviously Carr's go to contact in France.  Hopefully, we'll see no more of that now.

[Hughesy]

What's weird about Saivet is that he was relatively highly rated by people who know what they are talking about in France.  And yet we've decided he isn't good enough to get a game against the likes of Ryan Tunnicliffe and Joe Lolley?

[Figures 1-0 Football]

I can only assume that those players not featuring are not performing well in training or have poor attitudes/some sort of problem.

 

When Rafa came in, all players were effectively given a clean slate. He's obviously made a judgement on them after seeing them every day.

[Lush Vlad]

Saivet wasn't getting a chance under McClaren, either.  The transfer looks a bit dodgy. 

[Darth Crooks]

Keyser Saivet

[junkhead]

My guess is that Rafa doesn't like the general attitude and application of the 'french clique'. Judging only on nufcTV's pathetic content - it felt like Cisse, Saivet, Mbemba, Thauvin were only communicating between themselves in preseason (in French). It seems that Rafa is open to offers for all our French speakers - starting with Sissoko and Tiote, obviously.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Well Cisse and Thauvin were always going to leave, and Mbemba is one of our key players. As for Saivet I haven't a clue what's going on with him given how poor our CM options have been.

[TRon]

Would like him to experiment with his different striker combinations, but unfortunately he can't do that properly yet cos one of the dafties has got himself suspended.

 

Rafa has never played two strikers from the start throughout his career, do you think he will be willing to now?

 

I may be wrong but I think he switched to 4-4-2 / 4-2-4 at Madrid after some similar criticism.

 

I don't think it's a question of formation anyway. The most worrying thing for me is how we crumbled under the pressure of these two games. We're not even at the stage to worry about tactics and player qualities. The whole team is playing paralised by fear, it's pathetic. I've seen enough in only the Fulham game to know that we're in for a very hard season. Winning games will bring confidence but I don't think we have enough character to maintain the confidence.

 

 

 

Well this lacking confidence issue is something I can't really get my head around. Why should the opposition feel any more confident than a team which has been playing at a higher level? I think there's more to it than that when you scratch below the surface. A lot of our players aren't really proven premier performers either. As someone mentioned in another thread, is a left side combo of Dummett and Aarons really that much better than most championship teams? Anita, Colback and Perez are getting outmuscled by bigger, faster players, and our captain could barely make the Forest first team a year ago and that was in the championship.

 

There's a lot of players who have 'potential', but that's the case with most championship sides. We'll get better, but there are some glaring weaknesses down the left, and maybe up front as well.

[olliemort]

I really do think when mitro is back we will be a totally different team. At the moment all the ball has to go to feet...it's really easy for the opposing defence to judge what we are going to do. I reckon with Galloway in to replace dummett, one more winger and another striker in the mitrovic role we will be sorted

 

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[Budgie Smuggler]

Going purely from the only time I've seen him play this season, Saivet was head and shoulders above the man he replaced at Doncaster (Colback). On that performance alone, he's definitely good enough for the bench. He complimented Shelvey really well in that 2nd half.

[Minhosa]

I really do think when mitro is back we will be a totally different team. At the moment all the ball has to go to feet...it's really easy for the opposing defence to judge what we are going to do. I reckon with Galloway in to replace dummett, one more winger and another striker in the mitrovic role we will be sorted

 

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Agree with this.

 

I think he'll bring back some belief as well with us having a proper focal point to the top third.

 

[ChrisMcQuillan]

I really do think when mitro is back we will be a totally different team. At the moment all the ball has to go to feet...it's really easy for the opposing defence to judge what we are going to do. I reckon with Galloway in to replace dummett, one more winger and another striker in the mitrovic role we will be sorted

 

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Agree with this.

 

I think he'll bring back some belief as well with us having a proper focal point to the top third.

 

 

Agreed.

 

However, we're still playing as if he's on the pitch, though. If he breaks a leg, or gets suspended for 3 more games this season, I can't see us going up.

 

We need another striker of his mould - a targetman - to cover ASAP.

[olliemort]

I really do think when mitro is back we will be a totally different team. At the moment all the ball has to go to feet...it's really easy for the opposing defence to judge what we are going to do. I reckon with Galloway in to replace dummett, one more winger and another striker in the mitrovic role we will be sorted

 

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Agree with this.

 

I think he'll bring back some belief as well with us having a proper focal point to the top third.

 

 

Agreed.

 

However, we're still playing as if he's on the pitch, though. If he breaks a leg, or gets suspended for 3 more games this season, I can't see us going up.

 

We need another striker of his mould - a targetman - to cover ASAP.

Exactly when we pissed the championship last time we had a good mixture of forwards...I mean even shola looked decent. Your just not going to get away with playing midget strikers up front by themselves in this league. The defenders are mainly big old fashioned style bastards and along with that the referees don't give free kicks or yellows as easy in this league. Need another player similar to mitro but who will play more than half a season and is a proven goal scorer. I think ings would be perfect but I could well imagine there Is premier league sides interested also

 

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[Yorkie]

Yep, Carroll, Shola, Ranger, Harewood - all physical strikers (Nolan could hold it up, too) and a massive reason for why we dominated teams. Good service from both wings and big lads up front. With Lovenkrands providing the other half of the big man/little man, we were well balanced.

 

Mitrovic might do well but we're gonna be struggling-on all year if we don't get someone to replicate Ritchie on the other side.

[Minhosa]

Yep, Carroll, Shola, Ranger, Harewood - all physical strikers (Nolan could hold it up, too) and a massive reason for why we dominated teams. Good service from both wings and big lads up front. With Lovenkrands providing the other half of the big man/little man, we were well balanced.

 

We're gonna be struggling-on all year if we don't get someone to replicate Ritchie on the other side.

 

 

Aye, this is vital.

[ChrisMcQuillan]

Yep, Carroll, Shola, Ranger, Harewood - all physical strikers (Nolan could hold it up, too) and a massive reason for why we dominated teams. Good service from both wings and big lads up front. With Lovenkrands providing the other half of the big man/little man, we were well balanced.

 

Mitrovic might do well but we're gonna be struggling-on all year if we don't get someone to replicate Ritchie on the other side.

 

Definitely. Deliveries coming in from Jonas/Enrique on one side, and Routledge/Simpson on the other side, but we could also play with Nolan through the middle.

 

This team has nothing like that, bar Ritchie, and play exactly as you'd expect in that situation. Tapping the ball side to side, with only Shelvey occasionally trying something different.

 

We need Shelvey playing further forward in a more free role, with Hayden propping it up behind. We need another Ritchie on the other side, but most importantly we need someone up front with presence, with Gayle/Perez/Armstrong playing off them. Mitrovic will give us that, but him coming back is not going to magically rebalance the entire team. The midfield needs set-up differently. We're getting outplayed and outnumbered despite playing three in the middle against teams with two. They have more balance, more movement, and until we find that we're not going to succeed.

 

Shelvey/Hayden or Diame/Hayden should dominate most any midfield in this league. The players, yes, have to shoulder some of the blame as their mentality and attitude is piss poor, however they need to have options in front of them. The last two games they've had none.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Send up the De Jong signal.

[Darth Crooks]

Send up the De Jong signal.

 

[Willow]

I'll just pop this in the rafa thread, from .com

 

Don't panic!

 

United's demoralising start to life in the Championship has raised questions as to whether hopes of promotion and/or silverware are already fading this season.

We're glad to report that all is not lost and defeats in the opening two games reduce but don't extinguish prospects of an instant return to the top flight.

Since the Premier League was founded in 1992, no less than nine second tier clubs have endured similarly poor starts but recovered to gain promotion - four via the playoffs, three second places and two title winners.

Newcastle fans, players or officials in need of inspiration look no further than 12 miles down the road - with the mackems twice lifting the Championship trophy despite a shabby opening sequence of results:

 

Slow starters:

 

2012/13 Crystal Palace (playoffs) L L L W

2008/09 Burnley (playoffs) L L D D W

2006/07 mackems (champions) L L L L W

2004/05 mackems (champions) L W D L D L W

2001/02 West Brom (second) L L D W

1998/89 Bradford City (second) L L D L W

1995/96 Derby County (second) D L D L W

1994/95 Bolton (playoffs) D L L W

1991/92 Blackburn (playoffs) D D L L W

 

PS: It's also worth recalling that our 2009/10 season in the Championship ended in title success and an 11 point gap ahead of runners-up West Brom - and a massive 23 points in front of third placed Nottingham Forest.

United were promoted with 102 points, but Blackpool took the final playoff spot (and would gain promotion) with 70 points - 32 less than the black and whites. 

That campaign also started slowly, with an unconvincing 1-1 draw away at the Baggies.

[JH]

Mitrovic is a great option and he's an going to be an obvious talent in this division but the longer we are without him, the more we are relying on him already. That's an awful lot of pressure and it all it needs is for one big centre half to push him too far, and we'll be without him for another month or whatever.

 

We need another goalscorer, a Plan B as it were. One proven at this level would do - look at Villa, I'd probably have moved for exactly who they've now got up front.

 

We're also crying out for more creativity. Somebody to match Ritchie on the other side, or a 09/10 Enrique for one of the full back positions - ideally both.

 

Things will click for Benitez, I have no doubt of that. Like people keep saying, he is a dozen competitive games into a club that has been rotten and mismanaged for the best part of 12 years. It is going to take time but I feel like we should be placing more emphasis on attack rather than defence. We're clearly poor defenders but we're also playing with no confidence, which is leading to more silly mistakes.

 

If we play with a bit of flair, really take it to a team and get a couple of decent wins under our belt, the rest will start to come together IMO.

[TRon]

I really do think when mitro is back we will be a totally different team. At the moment all the ball has to go to feet...it's really easy for the opposing defence to judge what we are going to do. I reckon with Galloway in to replace dummett, one more winger and another striker in the mitrovic role we will be sorted

 

Sent from my HTC One M8s using Tapatalk

 

 

Agree with this.

 

I think he'll bring back some belief as well with us having a proper focal point to the top third.

 

 

Agreed.

 

However, we're still playing as if he's on the pitch, though. If he breaks a leg, or gets suspended for 3 more games this season, I can't see us going up.

 

We need another striker of his mould - a targetman - to cover ASAP.

Exactly when we pissed the championship last time we had a good mixture of forwards...I mean even shola looked decent. Your just not going to get away with playing midget strikers up front by themselves in this league. The defenders are mainly big old fashioned style bastards and along with that the referees don't give free kicks or yellows as easy in this league. Need another player similar to mitro but who will play more than half a season and is a proven goal scorer. I think ings would be perfect but I could well imagine there Is premier league sides interested also

 

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I know it's tempting to think this way because having a big lad up front definitely makes it easier to hoy the ball forward and it might stick, but surely it's not as simple as that? If it were, then clubs could  have just bought big hard championship centre backs for the premier and Torres and Michael Owen would never have become stars. How big was Andy Cole when we got promoted under Keegan? Does it mean that championship defenders could stop Barcelona with their midget strikers?

 

While Mitro is going to give us a useful option, we need to look at our football build up play and fix that first. I don't think having a big lad up front is going to fix what's going wrong there.

[Sima]

I'll just pop this in the rafa thread, from .com

 

Don't panic!

 

United's demoralising start to life in the Championship has raised questions as to whether hopes of promotion and/or silverware are already fading this season.

We're glad to report that all is not lost and defeats in the opening two games reduce but don't extinguish prospects of an instant return to the top flight.

Since the Premier League was founded in 1992, no less than nine second tier clubs have endured similarly poor starts but recovered to gain promotion - four via the playoffs, three second places and two title winners.

Newcastle fans, players or officials in need of inspiration look no further than 12 miles down the road - with the mackems twice lifting the Championship trophy despite a shabby opening sequence of results:

 

Slow starters:

 

2012/13 Crystal Palace (playoffs) L L L W

2008/09 Burnley (playoffs) L L D D W

2006/07 mackems (champions) L L L L W

2004/05 mackems (champions) L W D L D L W

2001/02 West Brom (second) L L D W

1998/89 Bradford City (second) L L D L W

1995/96 Derby County (second) D L D L W

1994/95 Bolton (playoffs) D L L W

1991/92 Blackburn (playoffs) D D L L W

 

PS: It's also worth recalling that our 2009/10 season in the Championship ended in title success and an 11 point gap ahead of runners-up West Brom - and a massive 23 points in front of third placed Nottingham Forest.

United were promoted with 102 points, but Blackpool took the final playoff spot (and would gain promotion) with 70 points - 32 less than the black and whites. 

That campaign also started slowly, with an unconvincing 1-1 draw away at the Baggies.

 

I wouldn't class that as a bad result, they finished second and we were away from home.  I thought it was a good result at the time and you can't really draw comparisons as Fulham will not finish 2nd this season.