Joelinton

[wyn davies]

thought he was supposed to be a N09 more like midfielder or just in front to me, nowhere near a No9

[sugoinufc]

there is still room for improvement regarding his role as a target man. A role i could see him do ok in with Miggy, Maximin or a Gayle type next to him.

 

Need to call Big Al in for some personal target man training sessions - it will do the world, i guess.

[KaKa]

I can really see why he was compared to Firmino.

 

He drops deep to get involved and link play a lot. Looked a lot more effective with options around him too.

 

Laid it off nicely for ASM's effort off the post. Could have had 2 assists on the night.

[TRon]

I can really see why he was compared to Firmino.

 

He drops deep to get involved and link play a lot. Looked a lot more effective with options around him too.

 

Laid it off nicely for ASM's effort off the post. Could have had 2 assists on the night.

 

Firmino is more of a goal threat. He might not score that many, but he does score some important goals. I think Joelinton isn't showing the natural finisher instinct so he is an easy target for the boo boys. But then Liverpool aren't relying on goals from Firmino, they have plenty of other goalscorers. Joelinton should not be burdened with being our main striker starting every game, this should have been a season of acclimitisation for him, but the other strikers have spent all season on sick pay.

[Guest Howaythetoon]

He played well last night, to be fair. If that was his debut you’d think aye, nowt special, but nowt amiss either.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

He played well last night, to be fair. If that was his debut you’d think aye, nowt special, but nowt amiss either.

 

That’s probably a fair assessment in general, he’s not that bad but he’s just a pointless signing.

[mrmojorisin75]

I can really see why he was compared to Firmino.

 

He drops deep to get involved and link play a lot. Looked a lot more effective with options around him too.

 

Laid it off nicely for ASM's effort off the post. Could have had 2 assists on the night.

 

Firmino is more of a goal threat. He might not score that many, but he does score some important goals. I think Joelinton isn't showing the natural finisher instinct so he is an easy target for the boo boys. But then Liverpool aren't relying on goals from Firmino, they have plenty of other goalscorers. Joelinton should not be burdened with being our main striker starting every game, this should have been a season of acclimitisation for him, but the other strikers have spent all season on sick pay.

 

firmino is also 5 years older than him and has played under quality management for the last 5 years at least

 

fwiw i don't see the comparison directly in their styles but he looks more comfortable in a deep position for sure

[TRon]

I can really see why he was compared to Firmino.

 

He drops deep to get involved and link play a lot. Looked a lot more effective with options around him too.

 

Laid it off nicely for ASM's effort off the post. Could have had 2 assists on the night.

 

Firmino is more of a goal threat. He might not score that many, but he does score some important goals. I think Joelinton isn't showing the natural finisher instinct so he is an easy target for the boo boys. But then Liverpool aren't relying on goals from Firmino, they have plenty of other goalscorers. Joelinton should not be burdened with being our main striker starting every game, this should have been a season of acclimitisation for him, but the other strikers have spent all season on sick pay.

 

firmino is also 5 years older than him and has played under quality management for the last 5 years at least

 

fwiw i don't see the comparison directly in their styles but he looks more comfortable in a deep position for sure

 

Yeah, this is why I think it is a bit sad that he has been burdened with starting every game this season as the main striker in his first season in the Premier. You know for a fact that Rafa wouldn't have let him near the first team until he was ready. IIRC, he wouldn't even start Rondon for the first 10 games last season until he was fit and well grounded in what his role was in Rafa's system.

[mrmojorisin75]

[Guest Howaythetoon]

He needs a rest like, he’s shagged after 60 mins. Still puts Shelvey to shame though...

[KaKa]

I have no doubts that his goal return would have been better had we been playing in a setup like we used last night too.

 

Every time we lined up like we had been previously we were just putting him in the worst possible position.It's definitely slowed his progress.

 

You only have to even look at the drastic difference we've already seen in Almiron as well, as a comparison.

[Guest Howaythetoon]

I have no doubts that his goal return would have been better had we been playing in a setup like we used last night too.

 

Every time we lined up like we had been previously we were just putting him in the worst possible position.It's definitely slowed his progress.

 

You only have to even look at the drastic difference we've already seen in Almiron as well, as a comparison.

 

I don’t think he’s capable of scoring goals because he’s not a finisher, chances galore or not. Almiron was always going to score some goals at least because he can finish.

[KaKa]

I have no doubts that his goal return would have been better had we been playing in a setup like we used last night too.

 

Every time we lined up like we had been previously we were just putting him in the worst possible position.It's definitely slowed his progress.

 

You only have to even look at the drastic difference we've already seen in Almiron as well, as a comparison.

 

I don’t think he’s capable of scoring goals because he’s not a finisher, chances galore or not. Almiron was always going to score some goals at least because he can finish.

 

Because only finishers score goals?

[Guest godzilla]

I can really see why he was compared to Firmino.

 

He drops deep to get involved and link play a lot. Looked a lot more effective with options around him too.

 

Laid it off nicely for ASM's effort off the post. Could have had 2 assists on the night.

 

Firmino is more of a goal threat. He might not score that many, but he does score some important goals. I think Joelinton isn't showing the natural finisher instinct so he is an easy target for the boo boys. But then Liverpool aren't relying on goals from Firmino, they have plenty of other goalscorers. Joelinton should not be burdened with being our main striker starting every game, this should have been a season of acclimitisation for him, but the other strikers have spent all season on sick pay.

 

firmino is also 5 years older than him and has played under quality management for the last 5 years at least

 

fwiw i don't see the comparison directly in their styles but he looks more comfortable in a deep position for sure

 

Yeah, this is why I think it is a bit sad that he has been burdened with starting every game this season as the main striker in his first season in the Premier. You know for a fact that Rafa wouldn't have let him near the first team until he was ready. IIRC, he wouldn't even start Rondon for the first 10 games last season until he was fit and well grounded in what his role was in Rafa's system.

 

Rafa wouldn't have signed him more to the point

[Guest Howaythetoon]

I have no doubts that his goal return would have been better had we been playing in a setup like we used last night too.

 

Every time we lined up like we had been previously we were just putting him in the worst possible position.It's definitely slowed his progress.

 

You only have to even look at the drastic difference we've already seen in Almiron as well, as a comparison.

 

I don’t think he’s capable of scoring goals because he’s not a finisher, chances galore or not. Almiron was always going to score some goals at least because he can finish.

 

Because only finishers score goals?

 

Those that can finish aye. He hasn’t shown any finishing technique never mind an instinct inside the box or any attacking sense which is needed all the same.

 

Gayle can finish and has scored a few goals at this level because of that. The reason he doesn’t score loads like he does in the Championship though is because he’s an ordinary player who ends up relying on service just to have a chance of scoring. Joelinton would do well to get ten in the Championship and getting more and better service to him won’t suddenly get him scoring goals.

 

That’s not to say he can’t improve his finishing and work on scoring more goals, but he will have to work harder to do so than the team working  harder to service him.

 

Shearer scored goals galore with or without great service because he could finish, a half chance or from one chance. Augero doesn’t score the number he does because he’s being set up on a plate 3 or 4 times a game. He scores all those goals because he’s a great finisher, he’s a goalscorer. He’d score similar with fewer chances created and the more you do create doesn't simply mean he will score even more. It doesn’t work like that.

 

I’d wager Joelinton in Rafa’s team would score less than Rondon. I’d wager Rondon would score less in Bruce’s too than he did under Rafa, but still score more than Joelinton. I’d wager Gayle playing every game that Joelinton has he’d have scored more too by now.

 

Not that goals tell the whole story. I looked at what Almiron give to the team in his play when he joined and saw how much more that helped the team more than just by scoring and because of the way he plays, goals would come. Whether he scores 5 a season or 20. He will score goals. His play adds more to the team than just goals.

 

He’d score more with better players in a better set up of course, but again, a Joelinton has to work so hard himself to just have a chance of that and with players like that unless they are worth more than just goals as a player, scoring goals isn’t enough or shouldn’t be. That’s why Cisse was moved on by Rafa. Or why he didn’t want Owen and would have played Heskey ahead of him if he did return anyway.

 

It always amuses me when people say a midfielder for example should be scoring more goals and if moved more forward or played more advanced, they should or will. Nonsense. Lampard would score goals or more goals than most of his fellow midfielders regardless and even strikers because he could finish, he attacked the box, the ball, had a shooting sense or instinct.

 

Shelvey getting a few goals this season is the exception to the rule, it’s not in him. It wasn’t in Xavi or Iniesta despite their considerable ability and it isn’t in Joelinton either, the way it wasn’t in Bellamy who had more chances/shots/opportunities/openings per game fed to him/created for himself than Shearer. Who scored goals because he could finish, a nothing chance, a half chance, in the box, outside, in the air, from distance, left or right etc. He attacked the ball, he hit the ball clean, with power, with conviction. He had a striker’s sense, a goalscorers knack.

 

If Joelinton has a similar impact to Almiron going forward whether he gets 5 goals or none, that’s what it’s all about though right now and last night he had a very good game and helped in attack without scoring.

 

Put him in KK’s entertainers though to score goals and he’d be an Ian Dowie to a Cole.

 

Sadly this team needs goals the most because that’s what keeps them up.

[Consortium of one]

Big Joe looked better with some bodies getting forward.  IMO, that back heel will be a confidence booster.

[Guest Howaythetoon]

Has to work so much harder for himself if anything. Don’t wish bad on the guy like so hope he manages to have a decent career from this hell we are all trapped in.

[Sean]

He's an Ashley signing. He wasn't signed for football reasons, so I can't really get my head around those that really want him to do well, and feel like they have to defend him against all criticism. It's defending Ashley's recruitment model in effect.

[Disco]

He doesn’t seem like a bellend is pretty much the only reason. I love how much he’s embarrassing everyone to do with the club, Steve Bruce’s first and RECORD signing. Watched him loads he said too, the dirty little Cornish pasty sniffer.

[Yorkie]

He doesn’t seem like a bellend is pretty much the only reason. I love how much he’s embarrassing everyone to do with the club, Steve Bruce’s first and RECORD signing. Watched him loads he said too, the dirty little Cornish pasty sniffer.

 

That's it. It's obviously not fair on the lad himself but he's the symbol of everything that happened in the summer, the embodiment of all that is wrong with the club. He's done a brilliant job of showing everyone up.

[KaKa]

He's an Ashley signing. He wasn't signed for football reasons, so I can't really get my head around those that really want him to do well, and feel like they have to defend him against all criticism. It's defending Ashley's recruitment model in effect.

 

When I discuss the players I'm not ever thinking about MA or his stupid agendas.

 

There's no doubt we have some talented players that have been severely hampered by the ridiculous manager that was brought in.

 

From your point of view, we should just pretend they have no ability at all because MA bought them. Well, I think that's silly and a bit weird.

[Theregulars]

Being honest with ourselves he’s crap, really. And I reckon he will be used by the Ashley regime and media cronies in the future to say “big money signings don’t always guarantee success” when (i) he’s been loaned to his 3rd club in 4 years and (ii) NUFC fans express disgruntlement that we’ve been outspent by every team in the PL and 2/3 of the Championship. Rondón is a better player in every way.

[loki679]

He made a good chance for himself when he took his man on, drove into the area from the byline and forced a save from the keeper.  Showed great strength, control, bit of pace and hunger.  Having men up there supporting him and not leaving him isolated against the entire backline helped, he had more space, more opportunity to get on the ball and I think it helped his confidence a bit, looked much better.

[TRon]

I can really see why he was compared to Firmino.

 

He drops deep to get involved and link play a lot. Looked a lot more effective with options around him too.

 

Laid it off nicely for ASM's effort off the post. Could have had 2 assists on the night.

 

Firmino is more of a goal threat. He might not score that many, but he does score some important goals. I think Joelinton isn't showing the natural finisher instinct so he is an easy target for the boo boys. But then Liverpool aren't relying on goals from Firmino, they have plenty of other goalscorers. Joelinton should not be burdened with being our main striker starting every game, this should have been a season of acclimitisation for him, but the other strikers have spent all season on sick pay.

 

firmino is also 5 years older than him and has played under quality management for the last 5 years at least

 

fwiw i don't see the comparison directly in their styles but he looks more comfortable in a deep position for sure

 

Yeah, this is why I think it is a bit sad that he has been burdened with starting every game this season as the main striker in his first season in the Premier. You know for a fact that Rafa wouldn't have let him near the first team until he was ready. IIRC, he wouldn't even start Rondon for the first 10 games last season until he was fit and well grounded in what his role was in Rafa's system.

 

Rafa wouldn't have signed him more to the point

 

Not for £40m, he already said that he could spend that money better. But that doesn't mean he is a crap player, just not one ready for Premier football right off the bat. But I agree with Kaka, he looked so much more effective with players around him, with the ball being played in to feet. He was coming up with clever flicks and backheels all of a sudden, and anyone who has watched him would have seen he has got that in his locker. I'm not even sure he's a bad finisher, just maybe doesn't have the movement to get the ugly goals.

[Guest godzilla]

I can really see why he was compared to Firmino.

 

He drops deep to get involved and link play a lot. Looked a lot more effective with options around him too.

 

Laid it off nicely for ASM's effort off the post. Could have had 2 assists on the night.

 

Firmino is more of a goal threat. He might not score that many, but he does score some important goals. I think Joelinton isn't showing the natural finisher instinct so he is an easy target for the boo boys. But then Liverpool aren't relying on goals from Firmino, they have plenty of other goalscorers. Joelinton should not be burdened with being our main striker starting every game, this should have been a season of acclimitisation for him, but the other strikers have spent all season on sick pay.

 

firmino is also 5 years older than him and has played under quality management for the last 5 years at least

 

fwiw i don't see the comparison directly in their styles but he looks more comfortable in a deep position for sure

 

Yeah, this is why I think it is a bit sad that he has been burdened with starting every game this season as the main striker in his first season in the Premier. You know for a fact that Rafa wouldn't have let him near the first team until he was ready. IIRC, he wouldn't even start Rondon for the first 10 games last season until he was fit and well grounded in what his role was in Rafa's system.

 

Rafa wouldn't have signed him more to the point

 

Not for £40m, he already said that he could spend that money better. But that doesn't mean he is a crap player, just not one ready for Premier football right off the bat. But I agree with Kaka, he looked so much more effective with players around him, with the ball being played in to feet. He was coming up with clever flicks and backheels all of a sudden, and anyone who has watched him would have seen he has got that in his locker. I'm not even sure he's a bad finisher, just maybe doesn't have the movement to get the ugly goals.

 

I've yet to see it mind and totally disagree, personally think he is a woeful player