Various: N-O has lost the plot over potential end of Mike Ashley's tenure

[Chris_R]

We sat back with the rest of the UN and let mass genocide happen in the Bosnia and the Balkans, and Rwanda, sat back watched it happen.

China executes thousands of it's own citizens every year. Russia with their invasion of Ukraine. There's loads of countries you could add to a list of unsuitability.

 

The rights and wrongs are there for everyone to see, should it be matter when it comes to sport ?

Saudi Arabia is changing for the better, and fairly rapidly, should that be taken in to account ?

 

I don't know, is it OK ? No one is ever going to be happy.

 

Selfishly getting rid of the animal who owns us, from the Purgatory we're in is welcome. Personally i wish it was someone with cleaner CV, but it is what it is.

 

 

 

That’s not true though is it?

 

Yes, it is true. Having spent time there with work (our company has since disinvested, some macro reasoning but also based on valuations), I have spoken to tens if not hundreds of people in their twenties and thirties in Riyadh who are open, global and good people who have studied outside Saudi and want to see and be part of it become a more open and tolerant society, while also being fiercely proud of their country and their religion.

 

Saudi Arabia has a million miles to go to become close to being as progressive and advanced in certain areas as they could and should be if held to Western standards, but if you genuinely think they aren't moving forward in this regard when you look at generational trends, then you've not looked beyond headlines in the last few years. By way of a very obvious example, last time I was there several meetings with big banks and the regulator were led by females. Something this simple was inconceivable until fairly recently.

 

Are they trying to use sports to improve their global standing and become more integrated in the western world? Absolutely. Does this make me feel uncomfortable when associated with my team? In some ways it does, in others I'm fairly accepting that this is cause and effect of broader society these days. Am I going to stop following / not attend games as a result? No, it means too much and it's been way too long since I've been able to truly enjoy watching Newcastle. If this comes off then it's mine and my dad's time to get to games and have some hope while he's still able. If it makes me a hypocrite so be it.

 

It does get somewhat boring reading the standard left sided trope rolled out whenever it can be applied of Saudi (or US, or Israel) bad and evil without any balancing factors for the other sides involved in these proxy wars and nothing more than rudimentary understanding of the underlying centuries of religious and political discourse that have got the world to where it is. It becomes even more taxing watching it played out on a football forum. But such is life.

 

 

 

Well thought out post. If may I ask what’ exactly is stopping them from moving faster and say bringing in democracy or allowing journalists to be more critical or allowing homosexuality?  Say in ten years what kind of regime will we be looking at?

 

I'm not Rafalove, but I've been to Saudi 7 times myself in the last 5 years, normally for about a month at a time. I've been to Riyadh 3 times, Dhahran 3 times, and to Jeddah once. In that time I've seen massive changes, even in just 5 years. They really are progressing, at quite a rate.

 

However you ask what's stopping them allowing homosexuality, and the answer is clearly religion. This won't change. They're the literal centre of the Muslim world, and homosexuality is forbidden under the Quran. Nothing in the Quran is open to change, it can't even be printed in any language other than Arabic and has to stay in its original form, so there's no chance of homosexuality ever being allowed in any Muslim country. Maybe they'll reach a point where its ignored, and indeed largely it IS ignored - Just don't publicise it. I've got a friend who is as camp as Christmas, there's not a hope in hell anyone could speak to him for more than 10 seconds and not know he's gay, and he went to Riyadh just a few months ago and had no problems whatsoever. Religion plays a massive part there, the "call to prayer" is played out audibly many times a day and everything stops, all the shops shut, and all the Muslims go and pray. Then after 15 minutes or so, the shutters come back up and everything reopens. It takes a little getting used to, but if you're out and about as a non-Muslim you just park your arse somewhere and wait for a bit, no big deal. But it does mean there's no way that homosexuality can ever be "Ok" officially. It just can't, because the Quran forbids it.

 

As for other things like allowing journalistic freedom or democracy, well, I can't see the monarchs giving up power willingly. That's not a Saudi thing, that's just a human nature thing. Their power gives them their wealth, there's no way they give that up. But they're hardly the only monarchy on Earth. And as for journalistic freedom, maybe we need to sort our own press out before we criticise anyone else's. Sure, our journalists don't end up chopped up, but the threat of not being in Boris's good books seems enough to stop most of the criticism that they should face. Most of our press is controlled by Rupert Murdoch, they all print whatever he wants.

 

But you can have open discussions in Saudi Arabia. Last time I was there I spent a good couple of hours openly discussing politics with a group of about 6 or 7 Saudis. They were reasonably young and want democracy to come, but they realise it's a forlorn hope for now at least. They welcome the changes that are coming to their country whilst not wanting to lose their identity, women can now drive which everyone agrees is good, they're all absolutely certain that alcohol will soon be introduced for non-Muslim residents though obviously they personally (claim!) they're not interested in that happening.

 

I've spent many evenings walking round the above cities and never once felt unsafe. Everyone has always treat me with respect, I've been lucky enough to be invited to some of their houses for dinner and they're a warm, proud, and welcoming people and I'm lucky enough to count quite a few of them as friends now.

[Kid Icarus]

We sat back with the rest of the UN and let mass genocide happen in the Bosnia and the Balkans, and Rwanda, sat back watched it happen.

China executes thousands of it's own citizens every year. Russia with their invasion of Ukraine. There's loads of countries you could add to a list of unsuitability.

 

The rights and wrongs are there for everyone to see, should it be matter when it comes to sport ?

Saudi Arabia is changing for the better, and fairly rapidly, should that be taken in to account ?

 

I don't know, is it OK ? No one is ever going to be happy.

 

Selfishly getting rid of the animal who owns us, from the Purgatory we're in is welcome. Personally i wish it was someone with cleaner CV, but it is what it is.

 

 

 

That’s not true though is it?

 

Yes, it is true. Having spent time there with work (our company has since disinvested, some macro reasoning but also based on valuations), I have spoken to tens if not hundreds of people in their twenties and thirties in Riyadh who are open, global and good people who have studied outside Saudi and want to see and be part of it become a more open and tolerant society, while also being fiercely proud of their country and their religion.

 

Saudi Arabia has a million miles to go to become close to being as progressive and advanced in certain areas as they could and should be if held to Western standards, but if you genuinely think they aren't moving forward in this regard when you look at generational trends, then you've not looked beyond headlines in the last few years. By way of a very obvious example, last time I was there several meetings with big banks and the regulator were led by females. Something this simple was inconceivable until fairly recently.

 

Are they trying to use sports to improve their global standing and become more integrated in the western world? Absolutely. Does this make me feel uncomfortable when associated with my team? In some ways it does, in others I'm fairly accepting that this is cause and effect of broader society these days. Am I going to stop following / not attend games as a result? No, it means too much and it's been way too long since I've been able to truly enjoy watching Newcastle. If this comes off then it's mine and my dad's time to get to games and have some hope while he's still able. If it makes me a hypocrite so be it.

 

It does get somewhat boring reading the standard left sided trope rolled out whenever it can be applied of Saudi (or US, or Israel) bad and evil without any balancing factors for the other sides involved in these proxy wars and nothing more than rudimentary understanding of the underlying centuries of religious and political discourse that have got the world to where it is. It becomes even more taxing watching it played out on a football forum. But such is life.

 

And the changes in political trends rather than social trends? If they've changed, great, but all I see in this post is the Saudi version of conflating the generational trends of the average Bernie Sanders supporter with Donald Trump the person.

[Sho Time]

Samuel's is a dick is the only answer you need.

 

Obvious enough but still doesn't answer the question! I wouldn't have been arsed if it just came from his article but F365 seemed to insinuate it was a (remote) possibility.

[Chris_R]

The new ruler does want change. He's from a new generation, unlike all of the previous ones who were either Ibn Bin Saud himself, or one of his brothers.

 

They finally ran out of brothers though and had to go to a new generation. Things are changing for a reason, he genuinely wants to open up the country. The pace of change since he came in, compared to the previous rulers, has been massive. He can't really even go faster because many of the locals are scared it'll be too much too soon and don't want to lose their identity, so if anything he's having to go at a pace the people will tolerate.

[Willow]

YourTypicalSaudi on reddit

 

Hello lads, Saudi guy here to mention some points.

 

I’ve seen some people wondering how Yassir can manage the club while he’s also managing Aramco and PIF. In reality, Aramco is chaired by Amin Nasser (CEO) and Yassir’s position is just to get the PIF closer to Aramco. So he mostly works on the PIF and nothing else. Personally I think him sitting at the top of Newcastle shouldn’t be that much of an issue if he has good & qualified people to take care of the various aspects of the club. Also the other partners will have their presence too so I don’t think this is something to worry about.

 

Turki Al Alshaikh has nothing to do with NUFC. Honestly he doesn’t have any qualities that will benefit you and he absolutely has no authority over PIF. Don’t let his Twitter description of “Royal Court Advisor” fool you. Until two years ago he wasn’t known in the kingdom until he became the president of our FA. Which he fucked up royally for one year until before he left his position. I personally don’t like him because he brought so much instability to my club (Al-Hilal) and was a major reason why we lost Jorge Jesus. Money wise he isn’t that rich. Football wise he’s just a big fan who wants some recognition and fame, you can see that in his Twitter profile if you spoke Arabic. He bought a club in Spain’s second division (Almeria). I think it’s pretty safe to take him off your radar.

 

Regarding your sponsor, if it happens to be from here my guess it’s Aramco, our biggest telecom company (STC) or maybe our airlines (Saudi Airlines).

 

We have a really big company (SABIC) but I never saw them doing any advertisement or sponsorships. There’s also some new projects in Saudi Arabia that established their own companies that may end up sponsoring NUFC if they wish too. NEOM, AMAALA and Qiddiya for example. I believe all these companies have modern and good logos so hopefully if you get a sponsor from here it won’t ruin the jerseys.

 

I guess that’s it for now, feel free to ask me about anything regarding Saudi Arabia or this deal and I promise you to be honest and impartial.

 

A bit off topic, but I’ve been seeing the reactions of NUFC fans on the internet (mainly Twitter) and you lot are fucking hilarious. I’ve had so many good chuckles the past few days and checking #NUFC has become a part of my daily routines these days. I don’t know why but seeing English lads with the Saudi flag, photoshopping ‘Shimagh’ -our head scarf-, having Arabic names or Saudi flair on r/soccer is really funny for me. I never knew the English were this funny and I feel like I need to watch more English shows beside The Inbetweeners and The IT Crowd (fucking love it).

 

I also learned a lot about Newcastle so that’s a bonus for me. Anyways, sorry for taking long, good luck with this endeavour. Newcastle is a beautiful club and I wish you the best. My first Newcastle exposure is this old video game

 

My club just played the Club World Cup as Asia’s Champions League winners and let me tell you it feels amazing. Hopefully one day our clubs can meet there

 

 

from:

[Guest The Little Waster]

Samuel's is a dick is the only answer you need.

 

Obvious enough but still doesn't answer the question! I wouldn't have been arsed if it just came from his article but F365 seemed to insinuate it was a (remote) possibility.

No way , not this time . If Ashley pulled the plug on this he'd lose another 10 000 season ticket holders easy , plus right now he needs the £££

[Kid Icarus]

Tbf to Wullie, none of the other contenders for the title of most evil are about to buy our football club.

His post could have been made in any thread regardless of context. Had nowt to do with the purchase. The regimes are only comparable because someone has to be the worst at any given moment. Like saying NUFC are the north east team closest to Liverpool in quality. Okay, sure. But we're still f***ing light years behind, it's just a technically true statement that's unproductive.

 

I just meant that the Saudis are being specifically highlighted in this discussion because they're the ones about to buy the club, but otherwise yeah I agree.

[Kanji]

Some really interesting posts today - much of what I’ve read from friends who are from there and are in their early 30s like myself.

[cubaricho]

Last two pages with some awesome posts. Thanks dudes.

[RodneyCisse]

A nice turn in post quality

[Miggys First Goal]

[triggs]

That was great Greg

[TheGuv]

YourTypicalSaudi on reddit

 

Hello lads, Saudi guy here to mention some points.

 

I’ve seen some people wondering how Yassir can manage the club while he’s also managing Aramco and PIF. In reality, Aramco is chaired by Amin Nasser (CEO) and Yassir’s position is just to get the PIF closer to Aramco. So he mostly works on the PIF and nothing else. Personally I think him sitting at the top of Newcastle shouldn’t be that much of an issue if he has good & qualified people to take care of the various aspects of the club. Also the other partners will have their presence too so I don’t think this is something to worry about.

 

Turki Al Alshaikh has nothing to do with NUFC. Honestly he doesn’t have any qualities that will benefit you and he absolutely has no authority over PIF. Don’t let his Twitter description of “Royal Court Advisor” fool you. Until two years ago he wasn’t known in the kingdom until he became the president of our FA. Which he fucked up royally for one year until before he left his position. I personally don’t like him because he brought so much instability to my club (Al-Hilal) and was a major reason why we lost Jorge Jesus. Money wise he isn’t that rich. Football wise he’s just a big fan who wants some recognition and fame, you can see that in his Twitter profile if you spoke Arabic. He bought a club in Spain’s second division (Almeria). I think it’s pretty safe to take him off your radar.

 

Regarding your sponsor, if it happens to be from here my guess it’s Aramco, our biggest telecom company (STC) or maybe our airlines (Saudi Airlines).

 

We have a really big company (SABIC) but I never saw them doing any advertisement or sponsorships. There’s also some new projects in Saudi Arabia that established their own companies that may end up sponsoring NUFC if they wish too. NEOM, AMAALA and Qiddiya for example. I believe all these companies have modern and good logos so hopefully if you get a sponsor from here it won’t ruin the jerseys.

 

I guess that’s it for now, feel free to ask me about anything regarding Saudi Arabia or this deal and I promise you to be honest and impartial.

 

A bit off topic, but I’ve been seeing the reactions of NUFC fans on the internet (mainly Twitter) and you lot are fucking hilarious. I’ve had so many good chuckles the past few days and checking #NUFC has become a part of my daily routines these days. I don’t know why but seeing English lads with the Saudi flag, photoshopping ‘Shimagh’ -our head scarf-, having Arabic names or Saudi flair on r/soccer is really funny for me. I never knew the English were this funny and I feel like I need to watch more English shows beside The Inbetweeners and The IT Crowd (fucking love it).

 

I also learned a lot about Newcastle so that’s a bonus for me. Anyways, sorry for taking long, good luck with this endeavour. Newcastle is a beautiful club and I wish you the best. My first Newcastle exposure is this old video game

 

My club just played the Club World Cup as Asia’s Champions League winners and let me tell you it feels amazing. Hopefully one day our clubs can meet there

 

 

from:

 

Actua Soccer 2. What a belting game.

 

I remember making the whole 01/02 Newcastle squad on it to play with when I was about 8 or 9

 

I vividly remember how hard it was Get make Bernard’s hair right.

[PRL]

We sat back with the rest of the UN and let mass genocide happen in the Bosnia and the Balkans, and Rwanda, sat back watched it happen.

China executes thousands of it's own citizens every year. Russia with their invasion of Ukraine. There's loads of countries you could add to a list of unsuitability.

 

The rights and wrongs are there for everyone to see, should it be matter when it comes to sport ?

Saudi Arabia is changing for the better, and fairly rapidly, should that be taken in to account ?

 

I don't know, is it OK ? No one is ever going to be happy.

 

Selfishly getting rid of the animal who owns us, from the Purgatory we're in is welcome. Personally i wish it was someone with cleaner CV, but it is what it is.

 

 

 

That’s not true though is it?

 

Yes, it is true. Having spent time there with work (our company has since disinvested, some macro reasoning but also based on valuations), I have spoken to tens if not hundreds of people in their twenties and thirties in Riyadh who are open, global and good people who have studied outside Saudi and want to see and be part of it become a more open and tolerant society, while also being fiercely proud of their country and their religion.

 

Saudi Arabia has a million miles to go to become close to being as progressive and advanced in certain areas as they could and should be if held to Western standards, but if you genuinely think they aren't moving forward in this regard when you look at generational trends, then you've not looked beyond headlines in the last few years. By way of a very obvious example, last time I was there several meetings with big banks and the regulator were led by females. Something this simple was inconceivable until fairly recently.

 

Are they trying to use sports to improve their global standing and become more integrated in the western world? Absolutely. Does this make me feel uncomfortable when associated with my team? In some ways it does, in others I'm fairly accepting that this is cause and effect of broader society these days. Am I going to stop following / not attend games as a result? No, it means too much and it's been way too long since I've been able to truly enjoy watching Newcastle. If this comes off then it's mine and my dad's time to get to games and have some hope while he's still able. If it makes me a hypocrite so be it.

 

It does get somewhat boring reading the standard left sided trope rolled out whenever it can be applied of Saudi (or US, or Israel) bad and evil without any balancing factors for the other sides involved in these proxy wars and nothing more than rudimentary understanding of the underlying centuries of religious and political discourse that have got the world to where it is. It becomes even more taxing watching it played out on a football forum. But such is life.

 

And the changes in political trends rather than social trends? If they've changed, great, but all I see in this post is the Saudi version of conflating the generational trends of the average Bernie Sanders supporter with Donald Trump the person.

 

Reasonable question, I'd argue both. Like or loathe him, MBS is the most outward looking ever, on virtually any metric you care to name. I'd imagine even the tyrannical and murderous metrics if we had the data - although that's conjecture on my part as I don't have empirical evidence in front of me. But it's MBS who is pushing forward with reform and leading it. As Chris R mentions, it's a tightrope being walked as if he goes too fast the traditionalists will attempt to cut him down and pull power back a generation. But to be clear, this isn't me saying he's some glorious, open democrat. He's a product of his society and he comes from an incredibly privileged and sheltered upbringing and was raised during a puritanical and strict period which actually makes his views in relative terms to the above, very liberal.

 

And I'd say conflation also applies when you compare a presidential system in a liberal western democracy such as the US, to an ascension within a Royal family where no democracy applies. People in the US have a choice whether they follow Sanders or Trump or anyone else. Nobody in Saudi has any real choice in that regard and yet still the regime and the people are changing. Fingers crossed they carry on doing so and tragedies like Khashoggi are not an outward indication of a return to worse times.

[Mr Logic]

A breath of fresh air in an age of "whataboutisms". Actual genuine insight.

[xLiaaamx]

Happy to see my club making other, normal everyday people halfway across the world so excited. For all we're getting the regime, we'll also be getting a whole lot of great people suddenly following us too.

[Rafalove]

Yeah there’s been some good posts and I’m grateful for the responses to my questions, which have been detailed and well written. Two last questions though. What’s crack in Yemen and if MBS’more progressive values are being held back by the elders in Saudi Arabia why are they still funding mosques in Britain that promote Wahhabism and extremism which seems to be prevelant in terrorists and those that participate in grooming gangs?

 

 

Not trying to be a dick with that question by the way.

[madras]

It was quite something when Danny Murphy proclaimed Newcastle had a train station and a river.

Should have called him out on it, two train stations.

 

Two rivers anarl.

Are Burns Rivers ?

[Guest Butcher]

 

Most positive he's ever been... about anything.

[WarrenBartonCentrePartin]

It was quite something when Danny Murphy proclaimed Newcastle had a train station and a river.

Should have called him out on it, two train stations.

 

Two rivers anarl.

Are Burns Rivers ?

 

I'd have said streams, but the accurate, factual, it's-on-there-so-it-must-be-true website called Wikipedia labels the Ouseburn a river.

[madras]

It was quite something when Danny Murphy proclaimed Newcastle had a train station and a river.

Should have called him out on it, two train stations.

 

Two rivers anarl.

Are Burns Rivers ?

 

I'd have said streams, but the accurate, factual, it's-on-there-so-it-must-be-true website called Wikipedia labels the Ouseburn a river.

I wonder if the Lort, Pandon and Skinner Burns are classed as rivers ?

[Paullow]

Speaking of Warren Barton, there's a half hour interview with him about the takeover that's jut been recorded. I've not listened to it yet, but here it is:

 

 

Big fan of Warren. Doesn't get the same recognition as some players of that era, but a long serving player who always put a shift in, and always has good words to say. Sometimes when you're watching a stream and we win you can tell he's buzzing.

 

Also crazy to think he cost £4m in 1995 (as a right back), whereas a bulk of our first team now cost around the same price like Hayden, Yedlin, and most of the CBs.

[Thumbheed]

Fuckin hell now we're talking Nazi s*** in here?

 

It's not hyperbole to say that the Saudis are one of the closest things on Earth at the moment to the Nazis is it? If you were going to pick the most brutal regime around, is there one worse? North Korea possibly but at least they're not bombing anyone.

 

The UK had pretty good relations with the Nazi regime up until the outbreak of war, Edward VIII was a friend of Hitler. I don't think "our government likes them" is the most robust defence, you could say the same about Assad and Gaddafi, these people are always our "friends" until they're not.

You missed the point. Take all that moral s*** stuff to the other thread, not this one. Jeez.

 

This is the main takeover thread. It's going to be discussed whether you like it or not. Jeez.

So what do you want to happen, Wullie? Another boycoutt?

 

Not at all. A matter for the individual conscience this one I think. I don't think the FA/PL should be allowing any states to own football clubs but that ship's already sailed.

So what will be your personal stance out of interest? Will you continue to support the club and would you go to games?

 

 

[WarrenBartonCentrePartin]

It was quite something when Danny Murphy proclaimed Newcastle had a train station and a river.

Should have called him out on it, two train stations.

 

Two rivers anarl.

Are Burns Rivers ?

 

I'd have said streams, but the accurate, factual, it's-on-there-so-it-must-be-true website called Wikipedia labels the Ouseburn a river.

I wonder if the Lort, Pandon and Skinner Burns are classed as rivers ?

 

Streams according to Google.

[Kid Icarus]

We sat back with the rest of the UN and let mass genocide happen in the Bosnia and the Balkans, and Rwanda, sat back watched it happen.

China executes thousands of it's own citizens every year. Russia with their invasion of Ukraine. There's loads of countries you could add to a list of unsuitability.

 

The rights and wrongs are there for everyone to see, should it be matter when it comes to sport ?

Saudi Arabia is changing for the better, and fairly rapidly, should that be taken in to account ?

 

I don't know, is it OK ? No one is ever going to be happy.

 

Selfishly getting rid of the animal who owns us, from the Purgatory we're in is welcome. Personally i wish it was someone with cleaner CV, but it is what it is.

 

 

 

That’s not true though is it?

 

Yes, it is true. Having spent time there with work (our company has since disinvested, some macro reasoning but also based on valuations), I have spoken to tens if not hundreds of people in their twenties and thirties in Riyadh who are open, global and good people who have studied outside Saudi and want to see and be part of it become a more open and tolerant society, while also being fiercely proud of their country and their religion.

 

Saudi Arabia has a million miles to go to become close to being as progressive and advanced in certain areas as they could and should be if held to Western standards, but if you genuinely think they aren't moving forward in this regard when you look at generational trends, then you've not looked beyond headlines in the last few years. By way of a very obvious example, last time I was there several meetings with big banks and the regulator were led by females. Something this simple was inconceivable until fairly recently.

 

Are they trying to use sports to improve their global standing and become more integrated in the western world? Absolutely. Does this make me feel uncomfortable when associated with my team? In some ways it does, in others I'm fairly accepting that this is cause and effect of broader society these days. Am I going to stop following / not attend games as a result? No, it means too much and it's been way too long since I've been able to truly enjoy watching Newcastle. If this comes off then it's mine and my dad's time to get to games and have some hope while he's still able. If it makes me a hypocrite so be it.

 

It does get somewhat boring reading the standard left sided trope rolled out whenever it can be applied of Saudi (or US, or Israel) bad and evil without any balancing factors for the other sides involved in these proxy wars and nothing more than rudimentary understanding of the underlying centuries of religious and political discourse that have got the world to where it is. It becomes even more taxing watching it played out on a football forum. But such is life.

 

And the changes in political trends rather than social trends? If they've changed, great, but all I see in this post is the Saudi version of conflating the generational trends of the average Bernie Sanders supporter with Donald Trump the person.

 

Reasonable question, I'd argue both. Like or loathe him, MBS is the most outward looking ever, on virtually any metric you care to name. I'd imagine even the tyrannical and murderous metrics if we had the data - although that's conjecture on my part as I don't have empirical evidence in front of me. But it's MBS who is pushing forward with reform and leading it. As Chris R mentions, it's a tightrope being walked as if he goes too fast the traditionalists will attempt to cut him down and pull power back a generation. But to be clear, this isn't me saying he's some glorious, open democrat. He's a product of his society and he comes from an incredibly privileged and sheltered upbringing and was raised during a puritanical and strict period which actually makes his views in relative terms to the above, very liberal.

 

And I'd say conflation also applies when you compare a presidential system in a liberal western democracy such as the US, to an ascension within a Royal family where no democracy applies. People in the US have a choice whether they follow Sanders or Trump or anyone else. Nobody in Saudi has any real choice in that regard and yet still the regime and the people are changing. Fingers crossed they carry on doing so and tragedies like Khashoggi are not an outward indication of a return to worse times.

 

Appreciate the response and I'll take it on board. I'm not the slightest bit convinced by MBS tbh, mainly because Khashoggi and Yemen are still the huge elephants in the room, but we'll see I guess. It's probably undeniable that it's put a bigger spotlight on him and Saudi, at the very least among Newcastle supporters, so we can be grateful for that.