Fantail Breeze Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 Is it just me or do we seem to have a lot of “new members” post December 2020....all on the negative side Trolls, other clubs doofuses or just shitheads like good old boy Lukey This patter is almost as tragic as ‘Mag’ on RTG. If you want to read blind optimism, I’m reliably informed there is a thread for that. Only registered on here 5 weeks ago. Already familiar with RTG. Hmm seems a bit strange like. Is it illegal to read the forum before joining? I’ve read the forum on and off for years, probably going back to the early days of Pardew. Some times I’ve read it almost daily, other times I’ve not looked at it in 6 months. I chose to sign up primarily to vent at the situation with Bruce. I also read RTG frequently and have done prior to signing up. I also look on a Man Utd forum infrequently, Derby County and Liverpool. I have an account on one of them, and might join up on another. Hopefully that won’t cause you any distress Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fantail Breeze Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 I’m not thinking the takeover is going ahead by a long shot, but, why are you not including the statements concerning the arbitration. If you’re going to use official statements to back your point, then don’t only use part of them which doesn’t paint the whole picture of what has happened. I copied and pasted the whole statement. Where’s the other statements that’s what I’m saying. NUFC, AS or PIF haven’t released any other official statements. That’s the whole point. What do you think arbitration is attempting to achieve? Do you believe the reporters writing about buyers and sellers intentions are: a. Lying and have had no contact? b. Being lied to by buyers and sellers? In either a or b, what is the motive? I'm absolutely not saying I expect it to go through, but to try and be black and white about it seems a little obtuse. I don’t know what arbitration is trying to achieve. If it was trying to achieve a sale, I’d have massive questions as to why MA is willing to spend millions of pounds on a court case but fail to pay off Bruce to avoid ruining the court case with a relegation. My feelings are MA is trying to get a compensatory claim. Regardless of the arbitration though, that won’t resolve the real issues which are mainly piracy. MA might well win his claim, but the takeover still won’t happen until multiple complex issues in KSA/Qatar are resolved. That’s why people like Keith are full of s***. Telling people to wait for the outcome of the arbitration is pointless because it isn’t the sole deciding factor in this takeover but he’s leading people to believe it is. I think the reporters have had genuine contact from the buyers and sellers, who all hope the takeover goes through and with their best intentions want to keep it in the news/as a positive light. However, the buyers and sellers have had this same confidence for 12 months... Nothing has happened and nothing has got closer. We’re not being told to wait until the summer. As your own quote from the club says, they firmly believe enough legal evidence was shown proving the separation of PIF from the Royal family. If this is what the court case is attempting to resolve, then the whole Bein issue becomes irrelevant. Now it might be that MA is after compensation but whatever the reason, he only wins the legal battle if its proven that PIF is separate in which case it opens up for the takeover again. At which point I believe PIF will come back to the table (relegation notwithstanding). Whether or not he wins that case is another matter. Then Keith can swoop in and save the day with his legal action The first part isn’t true though. Arbitration is there to look at whether the PL followed it’s own processes. It cannot force the PL to make a determination either way on whether PIF are separate. The PL can make whatever decision they like, providing they do it fairly in accordance to their own rules. NUFC’s argument is they haven’t followed their own processes by not making a determination. The PL will only agree to the takeover if the piracy issues are resolved. NUFC may ‘win’ arbitration but the PL could just therefore issue a rejection because they believe PIF are state-backed. No ones ever confirmed in a statement what the case is attempting to achieve have they, as its confidential? No. But what you suggested isn’t possible. Arbitration cannot make a determination on whether PIF are state backed. Therefore your first paragraph cannot come to fruition. As I said, the club could ‘win’ and arbitration could find the PL failed to follow it’s own processes. The PL could then go away and follow it’s own processes by formally rejecting the bid. It seems to me that arbitration is far more likely to be used make a determination on the issue of PIF / the Saudi state than whether the PL has followed its process correctly. The one thing we do know is that the PL’s only publicly stated issue is that they believe another ‘entity’ should be declared as a director and undergo the O&D test, and the consortium disagree. The whole purpose or arbitration is to settle disagreements such as that. And it’s not about whether PIF are state backed, of course they are, it’s the state’s wealth fund; it’s about whether the state would be a shadow director of the club or would be taking control of the club. If there is more to it than just that I think it’ll probably be around the whole legality of an owner’s and director’s test, whether the PL can lawfully impose a higher standard in relation to ownership and directorship of football clubs than is the case for any other company. De Marco has hinted at that in terms of restraint of trade being the big issue for this year in terms of sports law. I’m not going to keep going on like a broken record, because that’ll just fill this thread up with my guff. But as I’ve said numerous times, your first paragraph is wide of the mark. Hence why PIF rejected an arbitration offer during the O&D test. If memory serves me correct they said at the time arbitration is not possible without a decision being made by the PL. As I said, it’s the PL’s intention to delay, delay and delay. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RS Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 The kicker was PIF stating “global uncertainty” for withdrawing the offer. That coincided with their change in direction in investment. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wallsendmag Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 Is it just me or do we seem to have a lot of “new members” post December 2020....all on the negative side Trolls, other clubs doofuses or just shitheads like good old boy Lukey This patter is almost as tragic as ‘Mag’ on RTG. If you want to read blind optimism, I’m reliably informed there is a thread for that. Only registered on here 5 weeks ago. Already familiar with RTG. Hmm seems a bit strange like. Is it illegal to read the forum before joining? I’ve read the forum on and off for years, probably going back to the early days of Pardew. Some times I’ve read it almost daily, other times I’ve not looked at it in 6 months. I chose to sign up primarily to vent at the situation with Bruce. I also read RTG frequently and have done prior to signing up. I also look on a Man Utd forum infrequently, Derby County and Liverpool. I have an account on one of them, and might join up on another. Hopefully that won’t cause you any distress No skin off my nose pal. Just seems a bit of a strange time to be attracting all these new users. In the middle of a huge slump, looking a good bet for relegation, everyone sick of Bruce, the takeover etc and these new posters all sign up to add their negativity to the fire. If I've got it wrong then my apologies but I don't think I have. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fantail Breeze Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 I don’t think I am adding unnecessary negativity. Nothing would please me more than this takeover going through, it’d be a colossal positive not just for the club but the whole city. All I’m doing is sharing my thoughts and knowledge, as everyone else is. It does get incredibly annoying for new posters to have to justify themselves after being challenged countless times about being a previous poster, being a mackem or whatever else is thrown about (with the exception of tubes, who clearly is a previous poster). Maybe that’s why the quality of new posters isn’t so high - people can’t be arsed with it. Feel free to read some of my other posts in other threads, I was very positive only a short while ago about ASM. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hhtoon Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 Have to say that FB does have a reasoned discussion rather than being a WUM. Don't mind that all myself. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renrub Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 I don’t think I am adding unnecessary negativity. Nothing would please me more than this takeover going through, it’d be a colossal positive not just for the club but the whole city. All I’m doing is sharing my thoughts and knowledge, as everyone else is. It does get incredibly annoying for new posters to have to justify themselves after being challenged countless times about being a previous poster, being a mackem or whatever else is thrown about (with the exception of tubes, who clearly is a previous poster). Maybe that’s why the quality of new posters isn’t so high - people can’t be arsed with it. Feel free to read some of my other posts in other threads, I was very positive only a short while ago about ASM. So you aren't a previous poster? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdm Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 I don’t think I am adding unnecessary negativity. Nothing would please me more than this takeover going through, it’d be a colossal positive not just for the club but the whole city. All I’m doing is sharing my thoughts and knowledge, as everyone else is. It does get incredibly annoying for new posters to have to justify themselves after being challenged countless times about being a previous poster, being a mackem or whatever else is thrown about (with the exception of tubes, who clearly is a previous poster). Maybe that’s why the quality of new posters isn’t so high - people can’t be arsed with it. Feel free to read some of my other posts in other threads, I was very positive only a short while ago about ASM. That’s what annoys me slightly, post anything that’s in any way down on the takeover happening even if that is what appears to be most realistic and people get upset about it and accuse you of being a wum and being overly negative yet anyone can post any amount of utter shite (in one case yesterday the exact same post in both takeover threads) but as long as it’s positive no one cares. The majority on here want to feel positive about the takeover but the positive feeling and info just doesn’t appear to be there. I think I saw someone saying it’s just going around in circles and it’s true apart from the club announcing it was going to arbitration there has literally been no other concrete news. Maybe it is time to just take a back seat and see how this relegation battle plays out first Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackie Broon Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 I’m not thinking the takeover is going ahead by a long shot, but, why are you not including the statements concerning the arbitration. If you’re going to use official statements to back your point, then don’t only use part of them which doesn’t paint the whole picture of what has happened. I copied and pasted the whole statement. Where’s the other statements that’s what I’m saying. NUFC, AS or PIF haven’t released any other official statements. That’s the whole point. What do you think arbitration is attempting to achieve? Do you believe the reporters writing about buyers and sellers intentions are: a. Lying and have had no contact? b. Being lied to by buyers and sellers? In either a or b, what is the motive? I'm absolutely not saying I expect it to go through, but to try and be black and white about it seems a little obtuse. I don’t know what arbitration is trying to achieve. If it was trying to achieve a sale, I’d have massive questions as to why MA is willing to spend millions of pounds on a court case but fail to pay off Bruce to avoid ruining the court case with a relegation. My feelings are MA is trying to get a compensatory claim. Regardless of the arbitration though, that won’t resolve the real issues which are mainly piracy. MA might well win his claim, but the takeover still won’t happen until multiple complex issues in KSA/Qatar are resolved. That’s why people like Keith are full of s***. Telling people to wait for the outcome of the arbitration is pointless because it isn’t the sole deciding factor in this takeover but he’s leading people to believe it is. I think the reporters have had genuine contact from the buyers and sellers, who all hope the takeover goes through and with their best intentions want to keep it in the news/as a positive light. However, the buyers and sellers have had this same confidence for 12 months... Nothing has happened and nothing has got closer. We’re not being told to wait until the summer. As your own quote from the club says, they firmly believe enough legal evidence was shown proving the separation of PIF from the Royal family. If this is what the court case is attempting to resolve, then the whole Bein issue becomes irrelevant. Now it might be that MA is after compensation but whatever the reason, he only wins the legal battle if its proven that PIF is separate in which case it opens up for the takeover again. At which point I believe PIF will come back to the table (relegation notwithstanding). Whether or not he wins that case is another matter. Then Keith can swoop in and save the day with his legal action The first part isn’t true though. Arbitration is there to look at whether the PL followed it’s own processes. It cannot force the PL to make a determination either way on whether PIF are separate. The PL can make whatever decision they like, providing they do it fairly in accordance to their own rules. NUFC’s argument is they haven’t followed their own processes by not making a determination. The PL will only agree to the takeover if the piracy issues are resolved. NUFC may ‘win’ arbitration but the PL could just therefore issue a rejection because they believe PIF are state-backed. No ones ever confirmed in a statement what the case is attempting to achieve have they, as its confidential? No. But what you suggested isn’t possible. Arbitration cannot make a determination on whether PIF are state backed. Therefore your first paragraph cannot come to fruition. As I said, the club could ‘win’ and arbitration could find the PL failed to follow it’s own processes. The PL could then go away and follow it’s own processes by formally rejecting the bid. It seems to me that arbitration is far more likely to be used make a determination on the issue of PIF / the Saudi state than whether the PL has followed its process correctly. The one thing we do know is that the PL’s only publicly stated issue is that they believe another ‘entity’ should be declared as a director and undergo the O&D test, and the consortium disagree. The whole purpose or arbitration is to settle disagreements such as that. And it’s not about whether PIF are state backed, of course they are, it’s the state’s wealth fund; it’s about whether the state would be a shadow director of the club or would be taking control of the club. If there is more to it than just that I think it’ll probably be around the whole legality of an owner’s and director’s test, whether the PL can lawfully impose a higher standard in relation to ownership and directorship of football clubs than is the case for any other company. De Marco has hinted at that in terms of restraint of trade being the big issue for this year in terms of sports law. I’m not going to keep going on like a broken record, because that’ll just fill this thread up with my guff. But as I’ve said numerous times, your first paragraph is wide of the mark. Hence why PIF rejected an arbitration offer during the O&D test. If memory serves me correct they said at the time arbitration is not possible without a decision being made by the PL. As I said, it’s the PL’s intention to delay, delay and delay. I may be wrong, I often am, but I don't think that's quite right. We don't know exactly what happened but it seems like the consortium rejected the offer of going through the PL's arbitration process (which is set out in Section X of the PL Handbook) because they wanted a formal decision to be made instead (to be precise, written notice of disqualification under rule F.6. which would then allow an appeal to be made under Rules F.13-22). There is nothing in the arbitration process set out in section X that would prevent that process from going ahead before a decision is made and no specific limitations on what can be considered by that process. Also, I've seen supposedly ITK people say that it's not actually the PL's arbitration process that is being used now. I agree that it's the PL's intention to delay, delay and delay until it goes away, and it looks like that has been very successful. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdm Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 Zero chance of inter getting relegated Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stifler Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 Nowt like click bait. One paper says they are interested in buying a minority interest in Inter, just days after their current owners are pulling out of football. Even if they were interested in buying them, it has already been suggested that they want a Man City type group of clubs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdm Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 Nowt like click bait. One paper says they are interested in buying a minority interest in Inter, just days after their current owners are pulling out of football. Even if they were interested in buying them, it has already been suggested that they want a Man City type group of clubs. Could even be a positive then? A stake in inter with Newcastle to follow Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinky Jim Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 I don’t think I am adding unnecessary negativity. Nothing would please me more than this takeover going through, it’d be a colossal positive not just for the club but the whole city. All I’m doing is sharing my thoughts and knowledge, as everyone else is. It does get incredibly annoying for new posters to have to justify themselves after being challenged countless times about being a previous poster, being a mackem or whatever else is thrown about (with the exception of tubes, who clearly is a previous poster). Maybe that’s why the quality of new posters isn’t so high - people can’t be arsed with it. Feel free to read some of my other posts in other threads, I was very positive only a short while ago about ASM. That’s what annoys me slightly, post anything that’s in any way down on the takeover happening even if that is what appears to be most realistic and people get upset about it and accuse you of being a wum and being overly negative yet anyone can post any amount of utter shite (in one case yesterday the exact same post in both takeover threads) but as long as it’s positive no one cares. The majority on here want to feel positive about the takeover but the positive feeling and info just doesn’t appear to be there. I think I saw someone saying it’s just going around in circles and it’s true apart from the club announcing it was going to arbitration there has literally been no other concrete news. Maybe it is time to just take a back seat and see how this relegation battle plays out first Sums it up quite well.I’m still in the Optimistic group but like you say neither group has any great evidence as to whether it goes through or not.The positive optimism thread tries to relieve the constant boredom of negativity without really producing any great evidence one way or another.What it does is offer some interesting points to possibly cheer us up for a short while...some of the posters in that thread are very positive and helps to install a sense of hope. Those in the other thread who have the opposite point of view also have very valid points and may well prove to be absolutely correct in their judgement of the situation. No group has insider knowledge so we are left to surmise. Healthy debate is good, this is what the forum is set up for, but there is no need for one or two posters to simply appear, wind up everyone, sit back and watch the battle. As it may be a while before we hear anything either way....the present relegation battle is our main concern. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ketsbaia Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 Not sure how much Tony Evans knows but he posted this a couple of hours ago: https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/newcastle/united-takeover-amanda-staveley-pif-b1811060.html Mike Ashley, the owner, has issued arbitration proceedings against the Premier League and is still keen to offload the club. PIF will not comment on the matter but the Saudis are understood to remain eager to complete the transaction. Staveley’s courtroom struggles have no impact on Newcastle. The businesswoman is considering an appeal against the Barclays verdict – which would take the case into its 10th year – but whatever decision she makes will not affect her desire to become involved with the club. Neither would relegation. Sources close to the situation maintain that all parties in the consortium would still be interested even if the team are relegated to the Championship. Those close to the takeover have always believed that the political wrangling should not affect the sale. The murder of Khashoggi has not caused an interruption of economic relations between Britain and Saudi Arabia and many in football do not see why the game needs to take a stance that is not being held by the government. The takeover could be done very quickly. All the preparation work that takes time before a transaction was completed last year. A price renegotiation would need to take place if the unthinkable happened and Newcastle went down, but the figures are straightforward and that would not take long. The Premier League would need to give PIF an indication that they were ready to rubber-stamp their involvement. The consortium think that this will be the eventual result but the negative publicity does not help. There is no immediate sign of a change of situation for Newcastle. The only good news they can generate is with a couple of wins on the pitch. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 Not sure how much Tony Evans knows but he posted this a couple of hours ago: https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/newcastle/united-takeover-amanda-staveley-pif-b1811060.html Mike Ashley, the owner, has issued arbitration proceedings against the Premier League and is still keen to offload the club. PIF will not comment on the matter but the Saudis are understood to remain eager to complete the transaction. Staveley’s courtroom struggles have no impact on Newcastle. The businesswoman is considering an appeal against the Barclays verdict – which would take the case into its 10th year – but whatever decision she makes will not affect her desire to become involved with the club. Neither would relegation. Sources close to the situation maintain that all parties in the consortium would still be interested even if the team are relegated to the Championship. Those close to the takeover have always believed that the political wrangling should not affect the sale. The murder of Khashoggi has not caused an interruption of economic relations between Britain and Saudi Arabia and many in football do not see why the game needs to take a stance that is not being held by the government. The takeover could be done very quickly. All the preparation work that takes time before a transaction was completed last year. A price renegotiation would need to take place if the unthinkable happened and Newcastle went down, but the figures are straightforward and that would not take long. The Premier League would need to give PIF an indication that they were ready to rubber-stamp their involvement. The consortium think that this will be the eventual result but the negative publicity does not help. There is no immediate sign of a change of situation for Newcastle. The only good news they can generate is with a couple of wins on the pitch. Hence yesterday's news. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
loki679 Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 I don’t think I am adding unnecessary negativity. Nothing would please me more than this takeover going through, it’d be a colossal positive not just for the club but the whole city. All I’m doing is sharing my thoughts and knowledge, as everyone else is. It does get incredibly annoying for new posters to have to justify themselves after being challenged countless times about being a previous poster, being a mackem or whatever else is thrown about (with the exception of tubes, who clearly is a previous poster). Maybe that’s why the quality of new posters isn’t so high - people can’t be arsed with it. Feel free to read some of my other posts in other threads, I was very positive only a short while ago about ASM. So you aren't a previous poster? The regens are turning on each other Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
St1pe Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 So given what we know about Mike Ashley, do we think he would a) Sell the club for 100m less than was supposedly on the table last year or b) Gamble and assume he can get the club back in the Premier League with minimal investment in players or coaching staff, f*** it up and leave us stranded in the wilderness for another decade. Gamble ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK-421 Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 Nowt like click bait. One paper says they are interested in buying a minority interest in Inter, just days after their current owners are pulling out of football. Even if they were interested in buying them, it has already been suggested that they want a Man City type group of clubs. Could even be a positive then? A stake in inter with Newcastle to follow What happens when we play Inter in the Champions League final, though? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaizero Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 I don’t think I am adding unnecessary negativity. Nothing would please me more than this takeover going through, it’d be a colossal positive not just for the club but the whole city. All I’m doing is sharing my thoughts and knowledge, as everyone else is. It does get incredibly annoying for new posters to have to justify themselves after being challenged countless times about being a previous poster, being a mackem or whatever else is thrown about (with the exception of tubes, who clearly is a previous poster). Maybe that’s why the quality of new posters isn’t so high - people can’t be arsed with it. Feel free to read some of my other posts in other threads, I was very positive only a short while ago about ASM. So you aren't a previous poster? The regens are turning on each other Guy's username is literally burner account ffs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdm Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 So basically comes down to Ashley’s willingness to accept a lower price should relegation happen Hmmm Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shearergol Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 The consortium think that this will be the eventual result but the negative publicity does not help Are we still in 2020? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pons Alias Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 If we go down, I think he would still sell - but would retain a stake that he could sell to the others for an inflated price if/when we went up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanj Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 In my head, he seems to be very focused on Middle East ties and seems to stuck on building a relationship with PIF or contacts that come with doing a deal with them. So an irrational thought (hope) I have is that he knows he will take a haircut on price and will do a deal with them in the Champ if that happens to us. So if Tony’s article is accurate and my assumption on Mike’s eyes on Middle East retail expansion - this could maybe all make sense. If only we could get confirmation of all that, I’d be fine with whatever happens until then Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armchair Pundit Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 If PIF have registered an interest to a minority share in Inter Milan, do we think that's a possible set up for a link across several clubs? Or the end of their interest in buying us? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candi_Hills Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 All the journos (and Keith) are reporting the same things, just with slightly different spin. - Buyer and seller still pushing - Relegation may or may not be a problem - Peace in the ME paves the way - Arbitration may or may not render ME relations irrelevant Manorpark doesn’t know it’s on, Fantail doesn’t know it’s off. Put your cans away for now but divvent shit the bed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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