gjohnson Posted September 7, 2020 Share Posted September 7, 2020 Just double checked, was 17 accounts (released in 18) & Penn's completely wrong. Was an onerous contract provision, rather than an impairment of asset value, to the tune of £21m. Wrong or right, that write off was definitely used as an accounting trick to hide how much should have been available Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderson Posted September 7, 2020 Share Posted September 7, 2020 Should be noted too, that they are only written off/provided for from a financial reporting perspective, and had no impact on actual cashflow at the time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderson Posted September 7, 2020 Share Posted September 7, 2020 Just double checked, was 17 accounts (released in 18) & Penn's completely wrong. Was an onerous contract provision, rather than an impairment of asset value, to the tune of £21m. Wrong or right, that write off was definitely used as an accounting trick to hide how much should have been available I think the figures at the time were misrepresented by the media, rather than some elaborate cover-up. The reports were 'record Championship wage bill' which didn't take into account the contracts provided for, and '£90m operating loss' which didn't take into account profit on player sales. We did make a £25m cash loss that year though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
UV Posted September 7, 2020 Share Posted September 7, 2020 Just double checked, was 17 accounts (released in 18) & Penn's completely wrong. Was an onerous contract provision, rather than an impairment of asset value, to the tune of £21m. Staff costs (including promotion related payments and provisions for onerous contracts) were as follows: 2016 - £74.7m 2017 - £112.2m 2018 - £93.6m Provisions for liabilities - Onerous employment contracts & other charges 2016 - £0 2017 - £21m 2018 - £12.2m (£9.7m provisions released in the year) 2019 - £8.2m (£4m provisions released in the year) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colos Short and Curlies Posted September 7, 2020 Share Posted September 7, 2020 Just double checked, was 17 accounts (released in 18) & Penn's completely wrong. Was an onerous contract provision, rather than an impairment of asset value, to the tune of £21m. Wrong or right, that write off was definitely used as an accounting trick to hide how much should have been available It was a pretty poor trick then as it was 100% out in the open, mentioned in the release of the accounts and clearly referenced as such. It's not a particularly complicated treatment either so not something to use to bamboozle people Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gjohnson Posted September 7, 2020 Share Posted September 7, 2020 Just double checked, was 17 accounts (released in 18) & Penn's completely wrong. Was an onerous contract provision, rather than an impairment of asset value, to the tune of £21m. So essentially 21m disappeared in to the void of a balance sheet despite the physical assets still being on the books Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colos Short and Curlies Posted September 7, 2020 Share Posted September 7, 2020 Just double checked, was 17 accounts (released in 18) & Penn's completely wrong. Was an onerous contract provision, rather than an impairment of asset value, to the tune of £21m. So essentially 21m disappeared in to the void of a balance sheet despite the physical assets still being on the books Technically disappeared off the balance sheet Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest reefatoon Posted September 7, 2020 Share Posted September 7, 2020 Our fan base is a joke mind. Couple of token gesture signings and everyone has their pants down and bending over again. There is no way Mike is going anywhere when life is this easy. Nothing ever changes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Posted September 7, 2020 Share Posted September 7, 2020 Our fan base is a joke mind. Couple of token gesture signings and everyone has their pants down and bending over again. There is no way Mike is going anywhere when life is this easy. Nothing ever changes. Absolutely spot on! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafalove Posted September 7, 2020 Share Posted September 7, 2020 Agree with this. Here are a collection of opinions from a group chat I’m in. This level of signings usually brings out the ' we're top 4 quality now' crowd ? 100% Think this could be an astounding window. Jamal Lewis or this rogerio from sassuolo we've been linked with and I'd consider it a very strong window Honestly, I'm chuffed for yas lads. They are absolutely amazing signings. Genuinely absolutely stellar business from Newcastle so far. How a top 6 club didn't take him for just his wages is mad. He is going to be up there for signing of the season. Absolute steal. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menace Posted September 7, 2020 Share Posted September 7, 2020 Our fan base is a joke mind. Couple of token gesture signings and everyone has their pants down and bending over again. There is no way Mike is going anywhere when life is this easy. Nothing ever changes. So what are they supposed to do? Demand Messi? Bomb his helicopter? Stand outside SJP and egg everyone that walks in? A billionaire protecting his investment from being worth a fraction of the price. Front page news. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Cheesy Beans Posted September 7, 2020 Share Posted September 7, 2020 NUST have gone eerily quiet again after promising answers for their new membership after once again promoting their cause on the back of a crisis. Not seen that before. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest reefatoon Posted September 7, 2020 Share Posted September 7, 2020 Our fan base is a joke mind. Couple of token gesture signings and everyone has their pants down and bending over again. There is no way Mike is going anywhere when life is this easy. Nothing ever changes. So what are they supposed to do? Demand Messi? Bomb his helicopter? Stand outside SJP and egg everyone that walks in? A billionaire protecting his investment from being worth a fraction of the price. Front page news. Weirdest reply ever. No doubt you have been sucked back in hook line and sinker. Simpleton. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted September 7, 2020 Share Posted September 7, 2020 Our fan base is a joke mind. Couple of token gesture signings and everyone has their pants down and bending over again. There is no way Mike is going anywhere when life is this easy. Nothing ever changes. Yeap. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hhtoon Posted September 7, 2020 Share Posted September 7, 2020 Just double checked, was 17 accounts (released in 18) & Penn's completely wrong. Was an onerous contract provision, rather than an impairment of asset value, to the tune of £21m. So essentially 21m disappeared in to the void of a balance sheet despite the physical assets still being on the books Technically disappeared off the balance sheet Created a provision liability on the balance sheet didn't it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderson Posted September 7, 2020 Share Posted September 7, 2020 Just double checked, was 17 accounts (released in 18) & Penn's completely wrong. Was an onerous contract provision, rather than an impairment of asset value, to the tune of £21m. So essentially 21m disappeared in to the void of a balance sheet despite the physical assets still being on the books Technically disappeared off the balance sheet Created a provision liability on the balance sheet didn't it? £21m out of reserves to keep the balance sheet balanced. Neat. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Collage Posted September 7, 2020 Share Posted September 7, 2020 Our fan base is a joke mind. Couple of token gesture signings and everyone has their pants down and bending over again. There is no way Mike is going anywhere when life is this easy. Nothing ever changes. Yep. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitley mag Posted September 7, 2020 Share Posted September 7, 2020 Our fan base is a joke mind. Couple of token gesture signings and everyone has their pants down and bending over again. There is no way Mike is going anywhere when life is this easy. Nothing ever changes. Agree about fans and I’ll start off by saying I won’t be back this season on the back of this. However, this is just Ashley protecting his asset, nothing more nothing less. He has been guilty of gambling on our future in the past, however I believe he genuinely wants rid now, and the only way to get 300 plus million is by ensuring we stay up. As much as part of me wants us to crash and burn, the only chance of getting a decent owner is by being in the PL, getting relegated attracts all the waifs and strays as seen down the road, staying up is our best chance to get the type of owners we need. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdm Posted September 7, 2020 Share Posted September 7, 2020 Our fan base is a joke mind. Couple of token gesture signings and everyone has their pants down and bending over again. There is no way Mike is going anywhere when life is this easy. Nothing ever changes. I’m pleased with the signings in so much that it’ll give us a chance to stay in the premier league and hopefully one day out the blue a takeover will happen. Other than that I’m not that bothered Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashley17 Posted September 7, 2020 Share Posted September 7, 2020 Our fan base is a joke mind. Couple of token gesture signings and everyone has their pants down and bending over again. There is no way Mike is going anywhere when life is this easy. Nothing ever changes. I’m pleased with the signings in so much that it’ll give us a chance to stay in the premier league and hopefully one day out the blue a takeover will happen. Other than that I’m not that bothered This is basically where I'm at. They are good signings so let's call them as such, on the plus side if it goes to shit it's all on Bruce. Fans stood by Rafa when we were poor because they understood the situation he was put in. Bruce has been able to hand pick his targets and spend what looks like at least £35m on them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted September 7, 2020 Share Posted September 7, 2020 Well either way they did it, it made them look like they spent a hell of a lot more than they actually did, and used it as an excuse for not spending later, or to make the profit look more healthy should any of the written off assets actually be sold. Writing off the value of an asset you still have is surely just a way to hide money. Nearest thing I can compare in real terms is if I fill in a tax return and write off the value of my car, but then keep the car which is officially worth 0, but in real life is worth about 10k. I still have a 10k asset, but on paper it looks like I don't. Well aware it's not that simple, but that's how it reads to a layman Every club (and business) should write off an asset if it's not actually of any value any more. If a player has no re-sale value and is rotting in the under-23s their asset value should be impaired and expensed. Actually, looking at the NUFC accounts, I'm not even sure this happened. 2017 - Amortisation and impairment of players' registrations: £35,753k 2018 - Amortisation and impairment of players' registrations: £41,336k 2019 - Amortisation and impairment of players' registrations: £38,611k Not a significant variance there. Think the whole idea of a big random increase in write-offs one year to massage the profit figure might have been a myth. It absolutely f***ing happened. They used £30m (iirc) of cash to write off certain players wages up front in the books. As has been said there was too much money in the club and they didn't want to back Benitez so that's what they did. It was when the accounts were delayed for an inordinate amount of time. Nothing to do with amortisation, it was wages/remaining contract values. EDIT: I see this has already been covered. Wasn't reading the latest posts :/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Posted September 8, 2020 Share Posted September 8, 2020 Our fan base is a joke mind. Couple of token gesture signings and everyone has their pants down and bending over again. There is no way Mike is going anywhere when life is this easy. Nothing ever changes. It's ridiculous. Ashley couldn't have picked a better club to keep down. Our fan base is a joke mind. Couple of token gesture signings and everyone has their pants down and bending over again. There is no way Mike is going anywhere when life is this easy. Nothing ever changes. I’m pleased with the signings in so much that it’ll give us a chance to stay in the premier league and hopefully one day out the blue a takeover will happen. Other than that I’m not that bothered People have been saying this for 12 years (yes, that is how long this club has been 'for sale'). It really doesn't matter what division we are in. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
toontownman Posted September 8, 2020 Share Posted September 8, 2020 I agree with the past repeating itself. I do however feel different and more positive than the past as we now know for sure he wants out and will sell. I think it's only a matter of time until he goes. 2036 maybe, unless he changes his mind with the fan lip service and settles back in for the long haul. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hhtoon Posted September 8, 2020 Share Posted September 8, 2020 Well either way they did it, it made them look like they spent a hell of a lot more than they actually did, and used it as an excuse for not spending later, or to make the profit look more healthy should any of the written off assets actually be sold. Writing off the value of an asset you still have is surely just a way to hide money. Nearest thing I can compare in real terms is if I fill in a tax return and write off the value of my car, but then keep the car which is officially worth 0, but in real life is worth about 10k. I still have a 10k asset, but on paper it looks like I don't. Well aware it's not that simple, but that's how it reads to a layman Every club (and business) should write off an asset if it's not actually of any value any more. If a player has no re-sale value and is rotting in the under-23s their asset value should be impaired and expensed. Actually, looking at the NUFC accounts, I'm not even sure this happened. 2017 - Amortisation and impairment of players' registrations: £35,753k 2018 - Amortisation and impairment of players' registrations: £41,336k 2019 - Amortisation and impairment of players' registrations: £38,611k Not a significant variance there. Think the whole idea of a big random increase in write-offs one year to massage the profit figure might have been a myth. It absolutely f***ing happened. They used £30m (iirc) of cash to write off certain players wages up front in the books. As has been said there was too much money in the club and they didn't want to back Benitez so that's what they did. It was when the accounts were delayed for an inordinate amount of time. Nothing to do with amortisation, it was wages/remaining contract values. EDIT: I see this has already been covered. Wasn't reading the latest posts :/ You can't actually write off cash. They charged the P&L with the remaining contract value of some players wages which created a liability on the balance sheet. Those players were still paid each week in exactly the same way, though instead of those weekly payments hitting the P&L, they decreased this new liability on the balance sheet. The club then issued accounts with decreased profits as they'd brought forward £xm worth of wages that should have been spread over years. I can't remember if they then used this as an excuse for a limited transfer budget but assume so as it's got everyone riled At no point were they cash-wise any worse off by this accounting adjustment. If you want to see how healthy a company is, don't look at their P&L, look at their balance sheet! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdm Posted September 8, 2020 Share Posted September 8, 2020 Our fan base is a joke mind. Couple of token gesture signings and everyone has their pants down and bending over again. There is no way Mike is going anywhere when life is this easy. Nothing ever changes. It's ridiculous. Ashley couldn't have picked a better club to keep down. Our fan base is a joke mind. Couple of token gesture signings and everyone has their pants down and bending over again. There is no way Mike is going anywhere when life is this easy. Nothing ever changes. I’m pleased with the signings in so much that it’ll give us a chance to stay in the premier league and hopefully one day out the blue a takeover will happen. Other than that I’m not that bothered People have been saying this for 12 years (yes, that is how long this club has been 'for sale'). It really doesn't matter what division we are in. Ashley wants to sell. I’d rather he sold us as a premier league team than A lower league team to chancers trying to pick a lower league team to make a quick profit (see Wigan, Sunderland and Charlton) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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