mouldy_uk Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 Well this thread used to be fun Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomson Mouse Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 14 minutes ago, Hanshithispantz said: They can be offended all they like, it would just be completely irrational. If you want to be an incessant busy body telling people what they can and cannot do on behalf of others then crack on, I'm sure you hit the mark sometimes. I'm just saying in this case there's clearlly no malice to the dress up, and it's highly likely that the vast majority of Saudis are mature enough to not care about it. You seem to be the expert on Arabic culture though so by all means educate me on why I should be dismayed at this. It doesn't matter if there's malice or not, the club have requested that we don't do it. Again, why is this so difficult to understand and comply with? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 Just now, Thomson Mouse said: It doesn't matter if there's malice or not, the club have requested that we don't do it. Again, why is this so difficult to understand and comply with? I don't know what the clubs statement has to do with this part of the conversation tbh? People can chose whether they want to comply with what the club have said or not but that's completely seperate to the cultural appropriation conversation. People are barking onabout their emotionally stinted ex lasses wanting 'to slap people' for dressing up as Mexicans 'n that man, it's weird. The vast majority of well adjusted people across the globe aren't this strange. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 (edited) And I'm half taking the piss with a lot of this but I do believe it's good advice that before people jump up on their soapbox, that they take a second to think whether or not their view of other people and cultures (and how they think) has been in any way warped by other factors - such as film and media. Like clearlly something has caused people to believe that Saudi's need protecting from our heinious steriotyping and dress up. Edited October 21, 2021 by Hanshithispantz Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anon Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 Having lived for a bit of time in the Middle East it was properly cringe to see brits putting on the kandora as a dress up thing, I think everyone assumes naivete but it did come across as taking the piss out of a cultural symbol. I can see why they wanting it knocking the head, it’s unacceptable to dress up as most cultures now, most people don’t mean offence but it perpetuates stereotypes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 Well firstly we are only talking about how the men dress here? I don't think you'd get women fans dressing up like Saudi women wouldn't we? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 14 minutes ago, neesy111 said: Well firstly we are only talking about how the men dress here? I don't think you'd get women fans dressing up like Saudi women wouldn't we? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Venkman Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 45 minutes ago, Hanshithispantz said: And I'm half taking the piss with a lot of this but I do believe it's good advice that before people jump up on their soapbox, that they take a second to think whether or not their view of other people and cultures (and how they think) has been in any way warped by other factors - such as film and media. Like clearlly something has caused people to believe that Saudi's need protecting from our heinious steriotyping and dress up. Could it be the statement from the football club owned by Saudi’s asking people not to dress up as Saudi’s? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarrenBartonCentrePartin Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 Gan on about “the left” being to blame when the entire British element of the consortium are raging tories. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 Just now, Dr Venkman said: Could it be the statement from the football club owned by Saudi’s asking people not to dress up as Saudi’s? This came before the statement so it's not that like. It's probably South Park or Spitting Image or something. Or maybe it's some opinion piece in The Guardian, as N-O is the Toon's most middle class board. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
morpeth mag Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 1 minute ago, WarrenBartonCentrePartin said: Gan on about “the left” being to blame when the entire British element of the consortium are raging tories. The club are going to be under increased scrutiny and can't afford to not respond to comments from organisations like Kick Racism Out of Football Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Icarus Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 (edited) Seems like there's a bit of this going on like. The people who were against dressing in Arabian clothes were against it because they think it glorifies Saudi Arabia, not because they wanted to protect Saudi Arabians from cultural appropriation. I do think the idea of cultural appropriation is largely people thinking they're speaking for everyone when they're maybe not, but it does seem like the club's owners can't lose like. They buy the club and the supposed virtue signallers and snowflakes are against it yet are in the minority and have zero influence, then a week later the club's owners put out a statement asking people to not dress in Arabian clothes and it's because the virtue signallers and snowflakes are trying to protect them and have too much influence? They can't lose. All of this is part of how sportswashing works though isn't it? The whole 'people just having a bit of fun' element of it. No one in their right mind would ever think that Newcastle fans are doing anything sinister, because they're not, but in doing so they're softening the image of Saudi Arabia and it seems there are now those who'll pass the blame of the owner's own decisions onto some imagined group of people, it's an absolute check mate move really. Edited October 21, 2021 by kisearch Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
relámpago blanco Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 Just now, POOT 2.0 said: Don't get me started on people who carry too many keys! What's wrong with that like? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest HTT II Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 28 minutes ago, kisearch said: Seems like there's a bit of this going on like. The people who were against dressing in Arabian clothes were against it because they think it glorifies Saudi Arabia, not because they wanted to protect Saudi Arabians from cultural appropriation. I do think the idea of cultural appropriation is largely people thinking they're speaking for everyone when they're maybe not, but it does seem like the club's owners can't lose like. They buy the club and the supposed virtue signallers and snowflakes are against it yet are in the minority and have zero influence, then a week later the club's owners put out a statement asking people to not dress in Arabian clothes and it's because the virtue signallers and snowflakes are trying to protect them and have too much influence? They can't lose. All of this is part of how sportswashing works though isn't it? The whole 'people just having a bit of fun' element of it. No one in their right mind would ever think that Newcastle fans are doing anything sinister, because they're not, but in doing so they're softening the image of Saudi Arabia and it seems there are now those who'll pass the blame of the owner's own decisions onto some imagined group of people, it's an absolute check mate move really. Nicely summed up, again, for me the club statement is kind of sportwashing, their way of saying hey, look, we’ve told fans not to dress up, if they do, don’t lay the blame at us. I think eventually it will all die down anyway and it’s a stick being used by others to bash the club/new owners and now the fans. It’s harmless in the grande scheme of things and needs to be taken in the actual context, some lads dressing up having a laugh because they are just delirious our club is now rid of Ashley. Just like the scenes at SJP when the takeover was happening wasn’t about all off a sudden being pro Saudi Arabia, but about Ashley finally going. Its not culturally inappropriate, racist or ugly or fans siding with SA and therefore agreeing with their laws, culture and human atrocities. There needs to be a balance and some context here. The club are right to make such a statement because there is criticism, but let’s not pretend it’s some crusade of theirs to uphold some ideals against cultural appropriation, racism or whatever. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 31 minutes ago, kisearch said: The people who were against dressing in Arabian clothes were against it because they think it glorifies Saudi Arabia, not because they wanted to protect Saudi Arabians from cultural appropriation. Yeah, agree with that. I think there probably is a chance that it's culturally insensitive but I wouldn't wish to speak for those whom might be offended, because I don't know. Where it rankled for me was blindly celebrating the extremely grim source of wealth without a moment's reflection or awareness; I just don't think it reflected well on us as a fanbase, when the real victory was ousting Mike Ashley, as opposed to being freshly owned by an absolutely horrendous regime. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Crooks Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 (edited) Nowt like nuance to go out the window quickly in this discussion eh? Wearing tea towels is not the same as wearing actual cultural dress such as kandora. The first is ignorant/unitentionally disrespectful. The second could be construed as welcoming but ultimately all this taps into what Yorkie has just highlighted. You'll have a loud minority seeking offense in everything and a separate wilfully and gleefully ignorant,loud minority shouting 'woke left virtue signallers - I'll wear what the fuck I like end of.' Somewhere in the middle is a constituency of people going 'let's think this through and maybe we might be able to work this through without conflating all these different things.' Sadly, you end up with the poles of this chat being heard loudest. Don't know why you'd fly the Saudi flag in all good conscience at this point but again that's different and not in the statement. Nothing against the poles btw...great bunch of lads Edited October 21, 2021 by Darth Crooks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasper Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 Looking at all the debate around this the club's guidance probably should've been: DONT DRESS UP IN TEA TOWEL COS ITS FUCKING MORONIC. THE END. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gjohnson Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 7 minutes ago, Yorkie said: Yeah, agree with that. I think there probably is a chance that it's culturally insensitive but I wouldn't wish to speak for those whom might be offended, because I don't know. Where it rankled for me was blindly celebrating the extremely grim source of wealth without a moment's reflection or awareness; I just don't think it reflected well on us as a fanbase, when the real victory was ousting Mike Ashley, as opposed to being freshly owned by an absolutely horrendous regime. Too many people get too offended far too easily. If you've got 50000 cramming into one place in a carnival atmosphere theres always going to be a fair few numpties who take it too far. It wouldn't be any different in Manchester, London, Glasgow, Birmingham, Liverpool or Leeds An unfortunate part of being in a democracy is that even the stupidest have the same right to express themselves as everyone else. Unfortunately these are the ones that get a disproportionate amount of attention and end up being the representation of the whole area. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Crooks Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 I agree and a large enough number of people simply think every thought that enters their head and is verbalised, carried out warrants no scrutiny, self-reflection or awareness. If you can not pearl clutch whilst mastering the art of the above at the same then yours is the earth and all that is in it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papavasiliou Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 Club statement should have just been "Stop being so fucking cringe, man!" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gjohnson Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 3 minutes ago, Darth Crooks said: I agree and a large enough number of people simply think every thought that enters their head and is verbalised, carried out warrants no scrutiny, self-reflection or awareness. If you can not pearl clutch whilst mastering the art of the above at the same then yours is the earth and all that is in it. Problem is that everyone thinks that their opinion is right, and they should be allowed to say it. Whats the phrase...those that shout the loudest have the least to say? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abacus Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 I thought the statement was fair enough and politely worded. You don't get the sense they were offended at all, but are responding to and seeking to head off wider criticism. Pretty sure it was just a day 1 celebration thing anyway and you wouldn't have seen much or any dressing up at the next game regardless. Maybe the odd daft stag party every now and again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomson Mouse Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 Just our of interest, did Citeh fans do similar? Or Chelsea with Russian flags? Or Leicester? Serious question as I have no memory of it happening with them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 1 minute ago, Thomson Mouse said: Just our of interest, did Citeh fans do similar? Or Chelsea with Russian flags? Or Leicester? Serious question as I have no memory of it happening with them. This photo was taken at Wolves' last home game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomson Mouse Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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