The "delighted Ashley has gone, but uncomfortable with Saudi ownership" thread

[SAK]

41 minutes ago, Froggy said:

Saudi Arabia beheaded 81 people today.

Many other countries rightly or wrongly also have capital punishment, numbers executed may differ but the same ending.
 

Also geopolitics needs to be taken into consideration when looking at the numbers, there’s an Al Qaeda and ISIS insurgency there and wider Middle East. Most of those executors we’re members of these groups plus backers of Houthis in Yemen (essentially treason).

 

it’s not as simplistic as you’re  presenting. What’s the possible punishment in a ‘civilised country’ line the US for treason? Take a look: https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?path=/prelim@title18/part1/chapter115&edition=prelim

[Guest reefatoon]

5 minutes ago, Joey Linton said:

He didn't ask what anyone thought mind. 

He said it was absolutely there for discussion.

[Awaymag]

2 minutes ago, triggs said:

This happened today, while we are under their ownership.

 

This thread was set up to discuss the negative side of the owners.

I don't feel anything about it really.  I never paid attention to S.A.  or the middle East and I don't indeed to start now, with PIF owning us.

 

[Geordie Ahmed]

14 minutes ago, Nobody said:

Don't know, but their "project 2030" or whatever it's called is all about them moving away from being oil dependent and becoming a part of the "modern" world i thought. 

I'll admit that I'm really not clued up on Saudi Arabian politics at all, just going off bits and pieces that I've seen.

But when it comes to capital punishment, it still exists in the so called leader of the modern world so why would Saudi Arabia abandon that even if they want to become more western?

[Kanji]

from the BBC: “They were accused of plotting attacks on vital economic targets, killing or targeting members of the security forces, kidnapping, torture, rape and smuggling weapons into the country.”

 

The legitimacy of such accusations is clearly up for debate. 7 Yemeni and 1 Syrian national. 

 

I also think war criminals like the man running Russia shouldn’t be walking this earth either. 

 

 

Edited March 13, 2022 by Kanji

[Thumbheed]

10 minutes ago, triggs said:

This happened today, while we are under their ownership.

 

This thread was set up to discuss the negative side of the owners.

 

"Saudi Arabia beheaded 81 people today?" is not really opening gambit of a sensible discussion, is it? 

 

No issue with the discussion of our ownership, but we don't have to result to petty swipes in order to agitate that discussion, a lot of this board are openly uncomfortable with the ownership as it is. 

[TRon]

Froggy still pissed off they ended up with the Glazers I see.

[midds]

2 minutes ago, Thumbheed said:

 

"Saudi Arabia beheaded 81 people today?" is not really opening gambit of a sensible discussion, is it? 

 

No issue with the discussion of our ownership, but we don't have to result to petty swipes in order to agitate that discussion, a lot of this board are openly uncomfortable with the ownership as it is. 

Exactly. 

 

The initial post was made for very specific reasons. It was successful. 

[triggs]

10 minutes ago, Kanji said:

from the BBC: “They were accused of plotting attacks on vital economic targets, killing or targeting members of the security forces, kidnapping, torture, rape and smuggling weapons into the country.”

 

The legitimacy of such accusations is clearly up for debate. 7 Yemeni and 1 Syrian national. 

 

I’m American, I’m not for capital punishment but there have been many times where certain vile acts have (IMO) warranted capital punishment because the world is far better place than having some of these sick fucking people out there or even in jail. But again, that’s my opinion. 

 

I also think war criminals like the man running Russia shouldn’t be walking this earth either. 

Or the man running Saudi Arabia/NUFC?

[Kanji]

Is it confirmed MBS runs NUFC?

[TRon]

5 minutes ago, triggs said:

Or the man running Saudi Arabia/NUFC?

 

Would you like to swap owners with Man U's?

 

 

[Nobody]

4 minutes ago, Kanji said:

Is it confirmed MBS runs NUFC?

No, but he controls pretty much everything in that country, so if he wanted he could control 80% of NUFC.

[triggs]

Just now, TRon said:

 

Would you like to swap owners with Man U's?

 

 

I don't really care. I only watch NUFC when ASM plays these days. Also has nothing to do with this discussion

[Kanji]

2 minutes ago, Nobody said:

No, but he controls pretty much everything in that country, so if he wanted he could control 80% of NUFC.

Agreed he likely does and can.  Perhaps people can just ask the question properly than. 

 

 

Edited March 13, 2022 by Kanji

[christ]

Nowt wrong with the original post. It was a statement of fact.
 

We can’t try and wriggle our way out of it. This is the sort of shit our new owners get up to. If your reaction when it’s brought up is to accuse someone of acting in bad faith then you’re a fuckwit.

[Dr.Spaceman]

Nobody is trying to wriggle out of anything.

[christ]

4 minutes ago, Dr.Spaceman said:

Nobody is trying to wriggle out of anything.

Someone literally posted the words “it’s not as simplistic as you’re presenting” in response.
 

That’s in among people asking what they were executed for, and trying to draw equivalences with capital punishment elsewhere.

 

Wriggle wriggle.

[ElDiablo]

What we're seeing with the team now is all I've ever been after. A group of lads and manager to be proud of.

 

I'd happily forego the future money and success to be rid of the Saudi connection. 

[jack j]

6 minutes ago, ElDiablo said:

What we're seeing with the team now is all I've ever been after. A group of lads and manager to be proud of.

 

I'd happily forego the future money and success to be rid of the Saudi connection. 

That's all and well but when the Saudi money does come how you gonna feel if we do have success?

Surely that's diluting any success we have to you and alot of other people...?

 

[gbandit]

6 hours ago, triggs said:

I don't really care. I only watch NUFC when ASM plays these days. Also has nothing to do with this discussion

Out of curiosity, why is this? I had wondered about the number of fans who’d cut or reduced ties with the club because of our new ownership. Like, what happened to Incognito, does he post under a new name (no pun intended) or has he quit the forum?

[Dr Venkman]

8 hours ago, reefatoon said:

Thanks for that. Froggy was asking us what we thought, but to give an opinion you have to have the full story. Do you know what they were on death row for? It’s tricky to base an opinion until you know all the details. 

I’ve got all the details I need, killing anyone for any reason is minging. Doesn’t make me feel much either way though, I’ve long since stopped agonising about things happening in other parts of the world that I can’t do anything about.

[madras]

Lucky for Froggy that Man Utds global sponsorship with a Saudi brand ended before this then. Still two Chinese brands like but hey ho.

[Guest reefatoon]

7 hours ago, christ said:

Someone literally posted the words “it’s not as simplistic as you’re presenting” in response.
 

That’s in among people asking what they were executed for, and trying to draw equivalences with capital punishment elsewhere.

 

Wriggle wriggle.

It isn’t wriggle wriggle though. It’s a genuine interest in knowing the reasons why so many were executed. The original post had no information with it, just a thumbs up. Same with equivalences elsewhere. I didn’t realise the crazy amount of executions that happen in China. They are leading the way by a country mile but you never hear about it as much. Capital punishment is barbaric in every country that has it, whether it’s a few in the USA right up to the thousands in China. That’s not wriggling out of anything and more wanting to understand what makes a countries capital punishment more barbaric than another’s. 

[Anon]

In my mind, the best pragmatic scenario is we build a solid playing and management team, training ground, ground etc., get some mild success at which point we become more marketable as a brand and we get other partners in to take over some of the 80% and we can sleep easier at night.

[gbandit]

I look on Twitter and see some pretty horrible replies from NUFC accounts whenever people bring up Saudi Arabian human rights issues and it makes me think more about the sportswashing debate.

 

A useful parallel is racism, we think that racism has improved significantly since the 80s but then we get spates of hate crimes in response to Brexit and Covid, and xenophobia feels worse than it has been in well over two decades and you realise that so many of these racists were hiding in plain sight all along.

 

Then I think about some of these people defending the SA regime using whataboutery and deflection and it makes me think, they’re not really sportswashed are they? They’re just dickheads who were dickheads all along. It’s not like the takeover has genuinely changed their opinion of Saudi Arabia. Decent people will hold issue with SA irrespective of whether they’re an NUFC fan or not. These same NUFC idiots who defend Saudi Arabia online would be going all in on them had they taken over Sunderland.

 

I’m not sure if I’m making a coherent point here or not, but I think it’s up for debate how superficial sportswashing can be or is