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The Relegationometer™ (2023/24)

midds

by midds
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Lush Vlad

Lush Vlad

Posted
Posted
39 minutes ago, HawK said:

I'm ambivalent, providing the owners keep Howe if we do go down. He's the man that needs backing. When players realize they have no power because the manager has the club and the fan's full support, suddenly they either put up or shut up. 

 

With respect to Rafa, as a man and a manager I admire deeply, we've now been playing very negative counter-attacking football for over 5 years. Most of these players have been here that long and really don't know another way to play. Some may never be able to play front-foot football with confidence. We're going to probably need a sea-change in personnel in the squad or we risk the 'rot' spreading to our new players. It reminds me of the England situation with Southgate. I recall that he really didn't like having much of the old guard in the squad from the underachieving years.

 

Rambling now, ;tldr, I hope the board sticks with Howe even if we do go down. He gets it.

 

This is kind of my thinking.  

 

I wanted Emery and I still think in the short term and for just 'staying up' he may well have been the better choice.  However, I was speaking to a mate about exactly what you touched on.  We've played quite a negative brand of football for a good while now, bar a decent chunk of games towards the end of Rafa's reign.  Apart from Rafa, I don't think we've had a coach with a real identity or defined style of play since what, Keegan?  

 

I'm just looking forward to enjoying watching us again and if the performances remain positive.  I'm not overly arsed if we go down.  It would set us back, sure.  But I'd be confident in coming straight back up and with the owners and Howe in charge.  The future certainly looks a lot brighter than it did 2 months ago. 

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kingxlnc

kingxlnc

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, TRon said:

 

Regardless of what happens this season, I think Howe might go on to be one of England's most celebrated managers, so I agree with your thoughts. Because of his relegation with Bournemouth the really big teams were not really looking at him, they are always going to go for the Contes and the Pochettinos. But from what I've read since he became our manager, I am convinced by the end of his time here he will be a hot property. Personally I think we hit lucky that Unai Wummery turned us down. He's a top coach, but not really sure he has the same identity that Howe brings, and Howe also has big enough shoulders to take the pressure. Not sure that's so true of Unai. 

Honestly think Howe is potentially a Nagelsmann in the making. In Germany, he would have got a shot at one of the bigger clubs sooner, that's for sure. This is the equivalent of taking over a Schalke and restoring them to their glory years. I definitely think he has the potential to do it - as long as it's a semi-fair fight (and the other PL clubs don't change the goalposts). 

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South-Cheshire-Toon

South-Cheshire-Toon

Posted
Posted
21 minutes ago, Lush Vlad said:

...

 

I'm just looking forward to enjoying watching us again and if the performances remain positive.  I'm not overly arsed if we go down.  It would set us back, sure.  But I'd be confident in coming straight back up and with the owners and Howe in charge.  The future certainly looks a lot brighter than it did 2 months ago. 

 

Whole heartedly agree with this, but what pissing me off is all of the doom merchants out there - stating that after just one game - 'We're doomed' - Fucking arseholes the lot of them, both on this forum, and on the web. 

I know one swallow doesn't make a summer, but by the same reckoning, 1 fucking rain drop doesn't mean there's going to be a fucking flood and you need to man the Ark, nor does it mean 1 snow flake and there's going to be an ice fucking age.

 

What's with these idiots ? 

 

Just look at the stats for the games this season - 

 

  • team         -    % pos    shots    target    goals
  • whu           -    46        17         3            2
  • villa           -    47         10         2            0
  • efl - burn       54         18         3            0
  • south             36         10         5            2
  • mnu               36         12         3             1
  • leeds             35         17         7             1
  • watford         48         20        6             1    
  • wolves          48          8          2             1
  • spurs             35         7           1             2  - End of fatty twats reign.
  •  
  • cry                 25         6           2             1
  • chelsea          21         6           1             0
  • bri                  34         6           1             1
  •  
  • brent              52        23          9            3

There's been a marked improvement, so highest % poss, most shots on, most on target, and most goals, (excluding the burnley game as this was in the efl cup), and as I see it things can only improve.

We are not even a quarter of the way into the season and people are saying 'That's it' - For fuck sake, there's a shed load of games to go, some we'll win (starting this saturday), and some we'll lose - but I have every confidence we'll stay up, and if we went down, Eddie would still remain at the helm and we'll be straight back up, but I don't think it will come to that.

 

Keeping it black and white.

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rgk_lfc

rgk_lfc

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, TRon said:

 

Regardless of what happens this season, I think Howe might go on to be one of England's most celebrated managers, so I agree with your thoughts. Because of his relegation with Bournemouth the really big teams were not really looking at him, they are always going to go for the Contes and the Pochettinos. But from what I've read since he became our manager, I am convinced by the end of his time here he will be a hot property. Personally I think we hit lucky that Unai Wummery turned us down. He's a top coach, but not really sure he has the same identity that Howe brings, and Howe also has big enough shoulders to take the pressure. Not sure that's so true of Unai. 

 

One of the issues with PFMs and their media lobby is that ambitious clubs have been scared away from British managerial talent. I am glad Henry and FSG went for Rodgers over cooler foreign managers at that time. With all due respect to Rafa and Houllier, whom I respect a lot, Rodgers came closest to delivering the title playing significantly better football. I also believe the attacking philosophy and pressing tactics he coached made it easier for Klopp to take over.  There is a new generation of British coaches with good ideas on how to play football and ability to coach. I believe  Rodgers, Howe, and  Potter have the potential to be elite. They are not the finished articles and are work in progress. But I would rather take a chance on someone like them rather than Nuno or Emery (again, I respect both of them). 

 

Before anyone points at Howe's relegation with Bournemouth. Both Klopp and Rafa have relegations on their CV. Klopp spent 6-7 years managing Mainz and was relegated at the end of it. Rafa's coaching record before Valencia - Real Valladolid (2 wins in 23 games, bottom of La Liga), Osasuna (one win in 9 games in second division), Extramudara ( got promoted to La Liga then relegated), Tenerife (3rd in the second division). Essentially both of them had nothing to speak off in the top division before getting their breaks at Dortmund and Valencia. I am not saying Howe will be as good as Klopp or Rafa. But at similar stages in their managerial career, Howe's record is actually comparable and I would say better. I am surprised he has to wait this long to get a job after Bournemouth. 

 

 

 

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rgk_lfc

rgk_lfc

Posted
Posted
12 minutes ago, Conjo said:

By his own account he has turned down jobs after leaving Bournemouth, so it's not that he hasn't had opportunities. He's just been waiting for the right one to come along.

 

I did not know that. Makes sense. 

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TRon

TRon

Posted
Posted
25 minutes ago, rgk_lfc said:

 

One of the issues with PFMs and their media lobby is that ambitious clubs have been scared away from British managerial talent. I am glad Henry and FSG went for Rodgers over cooler foreign managers at that time. With all due respect to Rafa and Houllier, whom I respect a lot, Rodgers came closest to delivering the title playing significantly better football. I also believe the attacking philosophy and pressing tactics he coached made it easier for Klopp to take over.  There is a new generation of British coaches with good ideas on how to play football and ability to coach. I believe  Rodgers, Howe, and  Potter have the potential to be elite. They are not the finished articles and are work in progress. But I would rather take a chance on someone like them rather than Nuno or Emery (again, I respect both of them). 

 

Before anyone points at Howe's relegation with Bournemouth. Both Klopp and Rafa have relegations on their CV. Klopp spent 6-7 years managing Mainz and was relegated at the end of it. Rafa's coaching record before Valencia - Real Valladolid (2 wins in 23 games, bottom of La Liga), Osasuna (one win in 9 games in second division), Extramudara ( got promoted to La Liga then relegated), Tenerife (3rd in the second division). Essentially both of them had nothing to speak off in the top division before getting their breaks at Dortmund and Valencia. I am not saying Howe will be as good as Klopp or Rafa. But at similar stages in their managerial career, Howe's record is actually comparable and I would say better. I am surprised he has to wait this long to get a job after Bournemouth. 

 

 

 

 

Yep. Potter is definitely the other bright new English manager. When you see teams with relatively few resources like Bournemouth and Brighton playing attractive, effective football, that's not luck. Howe is demonstrating in the training sessions how he expects his players to move off the ball. 

 

Rafa's methods were a lot more defensive, but he was equally meticulous and process driven, that is why a lot of fans were prepared to put up with less exciting football, they trusted he knew what he was doing. 

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Robster

Robster

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, HaydnNUFC said:

Simply have to beat Norwich and Burnley. We were never getting anything today.

Losing away to Arsenal won't decide our fate.
We have a hell of a challenge ahead of us, no one can deny that, but it can be done. It just needs everyone connected to the club, that's players, coaches and fans, to believe that we can do it.
 

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toontownman

toontownman

Posted
Posted

It's grim. No evading that, likely no evading relegation.

 

This was a game we expected to lose but hoped to nick a draw. We need to do that against the top 8 teams we are playing because other teams probably will and already have the cushion. Every dropped point is nail in the coffin at this point.

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