gbandit Posted April 24, 2022 Share Posted April 24, 2022 Just now, Nine said: Thats a shame, I remember a couple years ago he was meant to be a big prospect. Wonder what went wrong there? Has he had injury issues? No idea to be honest, maybe @Neilknows more? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
macphisto Posted April 24, 2022 Share Posted April 24, 2022 4 minutes ago, HTT II said: RE Rashford @macphisto Aye it’s alarming but he’s suffered with injuries over the past year or so which he’s played on with and he’s not alone in how poor he’s been at Man Utd. I think he’s having a crisis of confidence and in a bit of a rut, a move would do him the word of good. Rashford here would be a huge coup and good for our club’s profile, image and ability to maximise sponsorship opportunities. I’d have Saka over him, mind… I hear what you're saying but he should still be putting in more of a shift in my opinion. I don't mind him being poor but it's more the lack of effort I find a concern. Look at Joelinton before Howe or further back Shearer, under Gullit, they still put in a shift even if they were out of form/out of position/problems with a manager. Genuine question, can you think of any players in the past, similar to Rashford, who were seen as a top young player, had a big dip, and then went on to be a top player? I'm not trying to be clever asking that question, I just can't think of anyone off the top of my head. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest HTT II Posted April 24, 2022 Share Posted April 24, 2022 4 minutes ago, macphisto said: I hear what you're saying but he should still be putting in more of a shift in my opinion. I don't mind him being poor but it's more the lack of effort I find a concern. Look at Joelinton before Howe or further back Shearer, under Gullit, they still put in a shift even if they were out of form/out of position/problems with a manager. Genuine question, can you think of any players in the past, similar to Rashford, who were seen as a top young player, had a big dip, and then went on to be a top player? I'm not trying to be clever asking that question, I just can't think of anyone off the top of my head. Shearer downed tools towards the end under Gullit and I've seen too many Toon players do the same only to do better under a different manager. Anelka after leaving Real Madrid? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiresias Posted April 24, 2022 Share Posted April 24, 2022 He's not alone in lack of effort in that side though it is difficult i guess when no-one else is trying either. He would be a risk but he had been outstanding previously so it's a gamble that could pay of and i wouldn't be unhappy. And yes saka is better Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest HTT II Posted April 24, 2022 Share Posted April 24, 2022 Rashford is clearly still a top player! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
morpeth mag Posted April 24, 2022 Share Posted April 24, 2022 (edited) 6 hours ago, HTT II said: Rashford is clearly still a top player! ...and would have a field day running onto Bruno passes Edited April 24, 2022 by morpeth mag Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wormy Posted April 24, 2022 Share Posted April 24, 2022 44 minutes ago, Dokko said: Thought they sent him back for being a cunt? Quick search seems to indicate that ending the loan was considered due to injuries but he was on the bench for them just this Tuesday. Crazier things have happened but at 21 years old, after three years of loans where he's dropped from the Championship to League 1, I dare say he's not a 'what if' we should be worried about. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LFEE Posted April 24, 2022 Share Posted April 24, 2022 I agree with what @Nineis saying about the wage structure. Especially as EH is doing the planning for the summer with SN. Our owners well aware of the problems Everton have caused themselves and are determined to progress at steady and more strategic rate. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ikon Posted April 24, 2022 Share Posted April 24, 2022 (edited) 2 minutes ago, LFEE said: I agree with what @Nineis saying about the wage structure. Especially as EH is doing the planning for the summer with SN. Our owners well aware of the problems Everton have caused themselves and are determined to progress at steady and more strategic rate. Yes, to some extent he has a point. But we will be offering more than 120k/week if the right player is available and that’s what it takes. Without a doubt. Will we offer 250+? No probably not. Edited April 24, 2022 by Ikon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanj Posted April 24, 2022 Share Posted April 24, 2022 (edited) I’m not sure Jamaal Lascelles will be up in arms if a genuine potential world class player comes in and they are on double his salary. These footballers aren’t that mindless when it comes to this stuff. We’ve a pretty low wage structure to begin with - the ratio to turnover is higher than most because our commercial income under Ashley was abysmal. Edited April 24, 2022 by Kanji Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lotus Posted April 24, 2022 Share Posted April 24, 2022 7 hours ago, David Edgar said: Which Everton players do we want? I’m not sure they’d let him go but I think Gordon is a decent player already and has plenty of potential. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfcastle Posted April 24, 2022 Share Posted April 24, 2022 (edited) 7 hours ago, macphisto said: Genuine question, can you think of any players in the past, similar to Rashford, who were seen as a top young player, had a big dip, and then went on to be a top player? I'm not trying to be clever asking that question, I just can't think of anyone off the top of my head. Possibly Andy Cole. After a blistering start with us he was a joke for Man United his first couple years there (why does Cantona wear his collar up, its dirty from carrying Cole all season), cavalcade of Sunday league misses, Man U hack Steve Curry acknowledging on the back page they'd "snap your hands off for their money back". Guess he came good in the end. Maybe McCoist. Way more go the other way though. Edited April 24, 2022 by Wolfcastle Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ikon Posted April 25, 2022 Share Posted April 25, 2022 Rather play with one man down for a season than sign Gordon. I detest him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazarus Posted April 25, 2022 Share Posted April 25, 2022 Remember when Shearer had that clause saying he had to be top earner? Didnt we sign sign someone and his pay had to be bumped up?? I wonder if ASM or Shelvey or maybe even Wilson have something similar. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowlingcrofty Posted April 25, 2022 Share Posted April 25, 2022 55 minutes ago, Lazarus said: Remember when Shearer had that clause saying he had to be top earner? Didnt we sign sign someone and his pay had to be bumped up?? I wonder if ASM or Shelvey or maybe even Wilson have something similar. I was thinking that. If you had a few of them on it then it would be a sensible way of incrementally increasing the pay structure without pissing off all your best players. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
macphisto Posted April 25, 2022 Share Posted April 25, 2022 48 minutes ago, Lazarus said: Remember when Shearer had that clause saying he had to be top earner? Didnt we sign sign someone and his pay had to be bumped up?? I wonder if ASM or Shelvey or maybe even Wilson have something similar. I wouldn't think so for ASM or Shelvey as I can't see Ashley/Justin Barnes allowing those type of clauses. The only issue with ASM is that I would think when he signed that "informally" he expected to have moved on by now or been sold in the summer under Ashley where he would have received a signing-on bonus and increased wages from his new club. I'm sure players signed for us under Ashley with the understanding that we would offer them a platform to perform in the PL and would happily let them move on as long as we maid a profit on the transfer fee. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cronky Posted April 25, 2022 Share Posted April 25, 2022 9 hours ago, Lotus said: I’m not sure they’d let him go but I think Gordon is a decent player already and has plenty of potential. Yeah. He shows plenty of energy, determination and a bit of skill and would be a good addition to our midfield. However annoying he might be at times. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lotus Posted April 25, 2022 Share Posted April 25, 2022 1 hour ago, Ikon said: Rather play with one man down for a season than sign Gordon. I detest him. He has a very combative attitude and is already pretty adept at shithousery. Impressive for a 21yr old. He’s also got decent enough pace, some strength to him but more importantly, he’s got good technique and a decent reading of the game. I’m sure Everton fans love and with good reason. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cronky Posted April 25, 2022 Share Posted April 25, 2022 17 hours ago, macphisto said: Genuine question, can you think of any players in the past, similar to Rashford, who were seen as a top young player, had a big dip, and then went on to be a top player? I'm not trying to be clever asking that question, I just can't think of anyone off the top of my head. An interesting point, and it got me thinking. You sometimes get young players who burst on the scene, attract a lot of attention, but after a while some of their limitations get exposed as opposition players suss them out a bit. I think Rashford is like that - he's a good player who should have a long career at the top level, but he has some weaker areas which will limit his progress. For his sake, I hope he continues to make the sort of small, incremental improvements which all professional players need to commit to, in order to prolong their careers. As for talented players who go off the rails a bit or lose focus, then I'm struggling to think of a player in that category who completely recovers their potential. George Best is the prime example. Nile Ranger could have had a much, much better career. Dele Alli seems to be at a crossroads, where he seems to have lost his focus. If a player needs to make some changes in their basic personality or attitudes, then that can take a long time (same as for the rest of us) and a player's career is a short one. And if they lose that edge of fitness, the older they get, the more difficult it is to recover. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrRaspberryJam Posted April 25, 2022 Share Posted April 25, 2022 17 hours ago, macphisto said: I hear what you're saying but he should still be putting in more of a shift in my opinion. I don't mind him being poor but it's more the lack of effort I find a concern. Look at Joelinton before Howe or further back Shearer, under Gullit, they still put in a shift even if they were out of form/out of position/problems with a manager. Genuine question, can you think of any players in the past, similar to Rashford, who were seen as a top young player, had a big dip, and then went on to be a top player? I'm not trying to be clever asking that question, I just can't think of anyone off the top of my head. Forlan? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wfmk2 Posted April 25, 2022 Share Posted April 25, 2022 Anelka Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
macphisto Posted April 25, 2022 Share Posted April 25, 2022 Just now, MrRaspberryJam said: Forlan? I'm not making excuses but with Forlan and others, for example Jon Dahl Tomasson, some are just not suited to certain leagues so changing countries can sometimes account for a drop in form and it is not too surprising they recover when they move to a different league. Vary rare for a player to been as the "next best thing" like Rashford (he made his England debut in 2016), have a dramatic dip and then recover all in the same league. Andy Cole was mentioned, but he went from roughly one goal in every three games at Man U initially to one in every two games after a few seasons so stats wise he wasn't doing that bad when he went through a low. I really can't think of anyone. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
macphisto Posted April 25, 2022 Share Posted April 25, 2022 (edited) 9 minutes ago, wfmk2 said: Anelka As I said above, not making excuses but changing countries can often account for changes in form, both up and down. Can you think of anyone who only played in one league who went on to fulfil their potential after a drop in form like Rashford? Edited April 25, 2022 by macphisto Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nine Posted April 25, 2022 Share Posted April 25, 2022 (edited) Has Rashford really dipped that badly though? I dont think hes anywhere close to Alli levels of failure, looking at Rashfords numbers alone last season wasnt a bad season for him also taking into account hes been a part of a broken Man United side. Edited April 25, 2022 by Nine Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaKa Posted April 25, 2022 Share Posted April 25, 2022 Think Man United have done a poor job bringing the likes of Rashford and Martial along. I think they're both players that would thrive under a more hands on manager like Howe, and so we should be keeping a close eye on their availability this summer, if Man United decide on a major overhaul. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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