More transfer rumours

[Jaqen]

Think it's pretty obvious there's a budget in place. They've been telling us since the start of the window and everyone has just convinced themselves it's a ploy to keep prices down. 

 

I think a Diaby type on the lower side of his rumoured price and a loan striker would see us about done with our summer business. 

 

Things change and move fast in football though, I think towards the end up the window it could get a bit mad this year with the World Cup coming up so soon. Bound to be players getting itchy feet and requesting loans or moves away that we might be able to take advantage of. 

 

 

 

[Coffee_Johnny]

37 minutes ago, kingxlnc said:

Man City look fearsome especially with Haaland replacing Jesus and Phillips replacing Fernandinho, with Grealish already Sterling's replacement. 

 

Liverpool are now without Mane who was first choice and integral to how they play, Diaz is his replacement but perhaps not as prolific. Nunez replaces Firmino and Jota. Salah is staying so they will be thereabouts but are prone to a risky transition season, especially as last year they almost peaked at aiming for the quadruple.

 

Chelsea seem disjointed, will be a transitory season. Ditto Man U.

 

Spurs under Conte will be challenging due to their attack which will be in its peak in terms of age plus the defensive solidity he brings to teams. All depends on his temperament. 

 

Arsenals youngsters will be a year older and more experienced. The Partey thing has potential to derail them and they still seem light on depth. If Jesus is injured there's only Nketiah.

 

West Ham punched above their weight last two seasons, with only Antonio up front. Without addressing that I see them finishing much lower. 

 

Newcastle without any further changes i see them perhaps top ten, given the team still lacks goals (and last season's siege mentality will not be quite as intense). A Broja or back up striker will move them to 9th. A Diaby will get them to 8th. And a Pacqueta on top of that will get them top 7 and maybe even push 6th, barring injuries. 

Totally agree. Plus for Man City, their wild card is Julian Alvarez. If he hits the ground running he will be the new Sterling and a much more ruthless version. 

[Ben]

38 minutes ago, kingxlnc said:

Man City look fearsome especially with Haaland replacing Jesus and Phillips replacing Fernandinho, with Grealish already Sterling's replacement. 

 

Liverpool are now without Mane who was first choice and integral to how they play, Diaz is his replacement but perhaps not as prolific. Nunez replaces Firmino and Jota. Salah is staying so they will be thereabouts but are prone to a risky transition season, especially as last year they almost peaked at aiming for the quadruple.

 

Chelsea seem disjointed, will be a transitory season. Ditto Man U.

 

Spurs under Conte will be challenging due to their attack which will be in its peak in terms of age plus the defensive solidity he brings to teams. All depends on his temperament. 

 

Arsenals youngsters will be a year older and more experienced. The Partey thing has potential to derail them and they still seem light on depth. If Jesus is injured there's only Nketiah.

 

West Ham punched above their weight last two seasons, with only Antonio up front. Without addressing that I see them finishing much lower. 

 

Newcastle without any further changes i see them perhaps top ten, given the team still lacks goals (and last season's siege mentality will not be quite as intense). A Broja or back up striker will move them to 9th. A Diaby will get them to 8th. And a Pacqueta on top of that will get them top 7 and maybe even push 6th, barring injuries. 

Totally agree, I think Liverpool are a couple of injury's away from a poor season though, overall its a fascinating season to look forward to.

[SUPERTOON]

Not many of us disagreed with there being a budget, we disagreed that it would be the 50 million that Edwards said it was, and we will have spent probably around double that come the end of the window. 

[hakka]

As much as I'd love for us to wrap up the critical attacking signings we need quickly, I'm getting more relaxed about it all. There's plenty of time left, we've already got some very good and important deals done. I trust the club to get quality in at the best price, as opposed to bulldoze and roll over on silly prices.

 

I know come window close we will have a striker to cover Wilson and a right winger/forward that's high quality. Paqueta on top would be sweet, but will trust the process. I'm just over the moon we are even in the position we are in, given what this time was like 12 months ago. Pure stuff of dreams.

[Novocastrian]

We won’t really understand the extent of PIF’s ambition for us until the window closes. I know we are desperately trying to not be the type of fans we are often mischaracterised as in the MSM, i.e. demanding Mbappe and Haaland but there has to be a middle way between fantasy galactico football and the ‘slow build’ we are being fed in the press, quite possibly encouraged by the ownership to dampen expectations.

First things first, we don’t need a mid-table transition season. Howe and the players have already achieved that by finishing 11th against all of the odds. We should now be aiming for at least 8th but realistically we have the resources and the acumen to challenge the top 6. 
The ‘slow build’ idea is hopefully just a distraction but, I believe, the likes of Botman and Bruno were enticed by the idea we’d be challenging for the CL places in the next 3 or 4 windows not after 4 or 5 seasons. I said at the end of the season we need another 3/4 ‘Bruno’s’ (should we call them Purples? ?)to challenge for Europe. Is Botman a Bruno? Possibly. You never know how players will settle in the PL but Paqueta and Diaby are the type of quality we need. We should also pursue a striker with a similar profile.

We’ll have a better idea about where all this is heading in a couple of weeks I suppose.

[kingxlnc]

I read this elsewhere but if we missed out on Diaby and got someone like Pepe on loan (or buy for up to £20m) (from Arsenal) would that be terrible? Pepe has lost his way there, and is low on confidence but they paid £70M for him and he was hugely prolific there. Can't help but think someone like Howe could revive him. 

He can also take a decent free kick. 

[gbandit]

The ambition isn’t in doubt, I think everything they’ve done suggests they’re willing to do everything to make us a top club, but they’re doing it in a highly strategic way rather than dropping cash everywhere

[SteV]

53 minutes ago, RodneyCisse said:

Yeah, we already have Wilson who’s better than DCL and just as injury prone.

DCL has had ONE season with injury issues. If that makes him ‘injury prone’, you’re looking at about 80% of players being in that bracket.

[junkhead]

Personally, with the risk of being disappointed, I continue to believe that we will spend another £80-100 million this summer. The only question is who can we attract. Can we convince Diaby to come here? Is there genuine interest in Paqueta from Arsenal? 

[STM]

We will get one more top quality signing this summer, of that I'm sure. Probably Diaby or Asensio or someone of that ilk. After that, it will be a smart loan or signing a young midfielder, that sort of thing.

 

TBH, I'm enjoying every second of this.

[The Prophet]

4 minutes ago, Jaqen said:

Think it's pretty obvious there's a budget in place. They've been telling us since the start of the window and everyone has just convinced themselves it's a ploy to keep prices down. 

 

I think a Diaby type on the lower side of his rumoured price and a loan striker would see us about done with our summer business. 

 

Things change and move fast in football though, I think towards the end up the window it could get a bit mad this year with the World Cup coming up so soon. Bound to be players getting itchy feet and requesting loans or moves away that we might be able to take advantage of. 

 

 

 

 

I'm still not convinced there's a set budget. Chris Waugh even admitted in a recent article that no budget has been confirmed by club sources.

 

The club are just being smart. We have our valuation of a player and we won't go significantly over that. Diaby isn't worth £60 million, Paqueta isn't worth €80 million (as allegedly quoted in January) and DCL isn't worth £40 million.

 

The club have always peddled the line that if the right player becomes available at the right place, they'd consider it, but they're also determined to show that they won't be bullied onto paying massively inflated fees. To me that suggests while we won't go absolutely nuts, if players that fit the criteria become available, there isn't a budget as such.

 

The latest budget being mentioned in the media is £80 million to £100 million, which has already crept up as the window has gone on. It wouldn't suprise me if our spend finished around there given that we need another two, but that's just educated guesswork.

[Abacus]

Even leaving aside FFP, I'm not sure we have much option other than a slow build.

 

Top players will be hesitant to join us, and you can't blame them until we get some sort of European spot.

 

Anyway, I'm quite enjoying the sensible approach taken so far - seems the opposite of the scattergun recruitment that caused Everton a lot of bother. At the same time as starting to sort out the infrastructure and the back office, it just feels like we're going in the right direction.

 

A couple of exciting attacking players and I'd be very happy indeed.

[jonny1403]

18 minutes ago, Novocastrian said:

We won’t really understand the extent of PIF’s ambition for us until the window closes. I know we are desperately trying to not be the type of fans we are often mischaracterised as in the MSM, i.e. demanding Mbappe and Haaland but there has to be a middle way between fantasy galactico football and the ‘slow build’ we are being fed in the press, quite possibly encouraged by the ownership to dampen expectations.

First things first, we don’t need a mid-table transition season. Howe and the players have already achieved that by finishing 11th against all of the odds. We should now be aiming for at least 8th but realistically we have the resources and the acumen to challenge the top 6. 
The ‘slow build’ idea is hopefully just a distraction but, I believe, the likes of Botman and Bruno were enticed by the idea we’d be challenging for the CL places in the next 3 or 4 windows not after 4 or 5 seasons. I said at the end of the season we need another 3/4 ‘Bruno’s’ (should we call them Purples? ?)to challenge for Europe. Is Botman a Bruno? Possibly. You never know how players will settle in the PL but Paqueta and Diaby are the type of quality we need. We should also pursue a striker with a similar profile.

We’ll have a better idea about where all this is heading in a couple of weeks I suppose.

 

It is not realistic in the slightest to suggest that we should be challenging the top 6 next season. 

[ponsaelius]

Going back to FFP and making sure every signing is an 'investment' - it kinda makes sense that we're hesitant to go up to 50-60 million for a player.

 

It's very unlikely that any player, no matter how good they are and how young they are, is going to increase in value at that price point. The market has dropped out in Europe so you haven't got willing buyers outside of PL. They're more likely to hold their value or make a very marginal increase (which would be offset if the contract is running down). And if they bomb you end up with a Pepe like situation where you've got a £65 million signing who you can't even really get rid of.

 

That's not to say signing players at that price point are a no-go completely - it just means you have to be absolutely sure.

 

Signing players in the 20-40 million bracket is a much safer bet. You'll double or triple their value if they do well - and if they bomb you're at a price point where you can make a small and painless loss.

 

 

Edited July 11, 2022 by ponsaelius

[hakka]

11 minutes ago, gbandit said:

The ambition isn’t in doubt, I think everything they’ve done suggests they’re willing to do everything to make us a top club, but they’re doing it in a highly strategic way rather than dropping cash everywhere

 

Yes, absolutely this. They don't want to piss money and attempt to buy big names. They have a growth strategy layered with a today one. Man Utd is perfect example of how spending aimlessly gets you nowhere. To crack City and Liverpool you need a high quality, but also lots of youth quality coming in down the years. I can see how we are getting in what top quality we can, but within a framework of right person, for right role and for the most sensible price. The fact in parallel we are snapping up youth players too shows how as much as we are looking to have a squad that can push for top 8 next season, they are already thinking who from the youth could come in and be high quality in 3 or 4 years time. It's the smart way to operate.

[Coffee_Johnny]

Some of the forwards we’ve been linked with, in one place (updated):

 

Strikers 

Barbosa, 25yrs. 88 in 137 for Flamengo. 5 in 18 caps for Brazil. Market value £23.4m (probs add 10-15% to all estimates).

Calvert-Lewin, 25yrs.  45 in 164 for Everton. 4 in 11 for England. Market value £36m.

Broja, 20yrs. 6 in 32 for Southampton, previous 10 in 30 for Vitesse. 4 in 14 for Albania. Market value £19.8m. 

Osimhen, 22yrs. 24 in 51 for Napoli, previous 13 in 27 for Lille. 15 in 22 for Nigeria. Market value £55.8m. 
Ekitike, 20yrs. 10 in 26 for Reims, also 3 in 11 Vejle BK (loan). 0 in 6 France U20. 
Isak, 22yrs. 32 in 103 for Real Sociedad, previous 18 in 33 (in Germany mainly 2nd tier). 9 in 37 for Sweden. Market value £27m.

Gabriel, 17 yrs. 0 in 54 Santos. 1 in 12 (Brazil u15 and u17). Market value £9m.

Kalimuendo, 20yrs. 19 in 60 for Lens, previous 0 in 3 for PSG. 13 in 24 for France u17/u21. Market value £16.2m. 
de Tomás, 27 yrs. 44 in 85 for Espanyol, previous 82 in 128 in three Spanish loan deals from Real Madrid. 0 in 4 for Spain. Market value £22.5m. 

Zapata, 31 yrs. 66 in 126 for Atalanta. Previous 40 in 141 (various Serie A). 4 in 34 Colombia. Market value £25.2m. 

 

Wingers 

Gordon, 21yrs. 4 in 49 for Everton. 4 in 7 caps for England U21. Market value £18m. 

Diaby,  22yrs. 22 in 92 for Leverkusen, previous 2 in 25 for PSG. 0 in 8 caps for France. Market value £54m. 

Paquetá, 25yrs. 18 in 65 for Lyon, previous 1 in 37 for Milan. 7 in 33 caps for Brazil. Market value £31.5m. 

Danjuma, 25 yrs. 10 in 23 for Villarreal, previous 15 in 47 for Bournemouth. 2 in 6 caps for Netherlands. Market value £45m. 

Hudson-Odoi, 21yrs. 4 in 72 for Chelsea. 0 in 3 full caps for England; 4 in 9 U21. Market value £22.8m.

Harrison, 25yrs. 26 in 154 for Leeds. 0 in 2 for England U21. Market value £16.2m.

Sarr, 24yrs. 23 in 89 for Watford, previous 13 in 59 for Rennes. 10 in 47 for Senegal. Market value £24.3m.

Asensio, 26 yrs. 28 in 160 for Real Madrid, previous 11 in 90 (Mallorca & Espanyol). 1 in 28 for Spain. Market value £36m.

 

 

 

Edited July 12, 2022 by Coffee_Johnny
Update

[KaKa]

I read in the Athletic a little while ago that the kind of central midfielder the club is after is going to be more of an athletic possession based type that uses short passes to recycle possession, and  maintain control of the game.

 

And so I don't think it will be Paqueta we look at bringing in, but rather someone more like that Ibrahim Sangare from PSV that we've also been linked with.

 

Actually, I just found the quote from the Athletic that I referred to ...

 

Quote

Beyond that, another midfielder — with a dynamic, metronomic passer-type coveted — would ideally arrive.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 11, 2022 by KaKa

[Novocastrian]

4 minutes ago, jonny1403 said:

 

It is not realistic in the slightest to suggest that we should be challenging the top 6 next season. 

Not in the slightest? Even though for half a season our record puts us firmly in the top 6, maybe even top 4. We’ll have a full Howe pre-season and several new, higher quality players.

it’s more than realistic, the teams we are competing against, Hammers, Foxes etc, we more than matched in the second half of last season.

[christ]

Absolutely makes sense to box clever now when it comes to fees and give ourselves greater headroom in the coming years. It’s also really important that we sent a precedent to avoid having our eyes taken out every time we try to sign someone. It might mean some long, hard negotiations over a couple of windows (e.g. Botman) but I trust the club to get it right.

 

I’m confident we’ll sign a winger and a striker before the close of the window. The market will move over the next few weeks. We’re well placed to take advantage of that now.

[The Prophet]

8 minutes ago, Novocastrian said:

Not in the slightest? Even though for half a season our record puts us firmly in the top 6, maybe even top 4. We’ll have a full Howe pre-season and several new, higher quality players.

it’s more than realistic, the teams we are competing against, Hammers, Foxes etc, we more than matched in the second half of last season.

 

I was concerned that our form from Xmas onwards might raise expectations a bit too high. It'll be difficult to replicate that form over the course of a season, especially if we're looking at having a go in the cups too.

[Novocastrian]

2 minutes ago, The Prophet said:

 

I was concerned that our form from Xmas onwards might raise expectations a bit too high. It'll be difficult to replicate that form over the course of a season, especially if we're looking at having a go in the cups too.

Absolutely, it will be difficult, other teams will also have improved. It’s achievable though, anyone who was around in the 90s knows what this club is like when it gathers momentum - we have a real chance.

[sushimonster85]

18 minutes ago, KaKa said:

I read in the Athletic a little while ago that the kind of central midfielder the club is after is going to be more of an athletic possession based type that uses short passes to recycle possession, and  maintain control of the game.

 

And so I don't think it will be Paqueta we look at bringing in, but rather someone more like that Ibrahim Sangare from PSV that we've also been linked with.

 

Actually, I just found the quote from the Athletic that I referred to ...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Really don't understand how Sangare is still at PSV. Very affordable release clause, can't remember the exact number off the top of my head, but its in the £20-£25m range. 

[jonny1403]

18 minutes ago, Novocastrian said:

Not in the slightest? Even though for half a season our record puts us firmly in the top 6, maybe even top 4. We’ll have a full Howe pre-season and several new, higher quality players.

it’s more than realistic, the teams we are competing against, Hammers, Foxes etc, we more than matched in the second half of last season.

 

Our form in the second half of last season was almost perfect. It's not sustainable or realistic to suggest we will maintain top 3 form throughout an entire season. We are competing against Man U and Arsenal for top 6, not West Ham and Leicester. That's a huge gap to bridge in one transfer window.

[The College Dropout]

1 hour ago, kingxlnc said:

Man City look fearsome especially with Haaland replacing Jesus and Phillips replacing Fernandinho, with Grealish already Sterling's replacement. 

 

Liverpool are now without Mane who was first choice and integral to how they play, Diaz is his replacement but perhaps not as prolific. Nunez replaces Firmino and Jota. Salah is staying so they will be thereabouts but are prone to a risky transition season, especially as last year they almost peaked at aiming for the quadruple.

 

Chelsea seem disjointed, will be a transitory season. Ditto Man U.

 

Spurs under Conte will be challenging due to their attack which will be in its peak in terms of age plus the defensive solidity he brings to teams. All depends on his temperament. 

 

Arsenals youngsters will be a year older and more experienced. The Partey thing has potential to derail them and they still seem light on depth. If Jesus is injured there's only Nketiah.

 

West Ham punched above their weight last two seasons, with only Antonio up front. Without addressing that I see them finishing much lower. 

 

Newcastle without any further changes i see them perhaps top ten, given the team still lacks goals (and last season's siege mentality will not be quite as intense). A Broja or back up striker will move them to 9th. A Diaby will get them to 8th. And a Pacqueta on top of that will get them top 7 and maybe even push 6th, barring injuries. 

I'll be honest. I've gone off Pep. A lot depends on Haaland - without Sterling & Jesus the team is very one-paced (outside of Haaland).

 

I think West Ham will be strong again. They are close to an ultimate Moyes team - which is a good PL football team. Big, powerful with genuine talent.