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Dan Ashworth (on gardening leave)

Rich

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The College Dropout

The College Dropout

Posted
Posted
12 minutes ago, Checko said:

I mean, if we're taking weather into account and are top players are still picking Manchester then surely that gives them the win?

 

Personally though I think the only objective way to measure this is by having clubs' mascots fight each other to the death.

What top players go to Man U?

 

In the last decade I count Paul Pogba (who had already played there). The next closest 2 Sanchez and ADM had taken a step down. 

33 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said:

Man Utd’s status long pre-dates the relatively recent PL becoming the world’s biggest league.  It’s a nonsense argument to suggest that Man Utd’s status is the result of the PL’s status.

 

Of course it’s fan base which makes them bigger than Liverpool.  Are NUFC bigger than Coventry or Luton or Wigan or Wimbledon?  Those clubs have won more trophies in my lifetime.

 

A well-run Man Utd is potentially the world’s biggest club.  They’ve been hobbled by their own version of Ashley.  
 

Despite more equitable sharing of revenues, Man Utd still have a greater revenue than Barcelona and are only just short of Real’s, despite being hampered by those clowns who own them and recent failings.  Man Utd’s commercial revenues are higher than any other club’s - despite not being successful in the elite club sense recently - because the Man Utd ‘brand’ is bigger than that of other clubs.  They’re not propping Man Utd up so that Gary Neville can make unfounded claims on TV. 
 

Signing the best players in the world is meaningless in this - and Man City hasn’t done this either.  The PL has had one world player of the year since the breakaway.  It hasn’t stopped it becoming the world’s biggest and most watched league.

 

It is an argument which is virtually impossible to ‘win’, which is why I said Man Utd are arguably the world’s biggest club (also potentially the world’s biggest club).  The number of clubs in that argument can be counted on one hand.  Bayern Munich sell more shirts than anyone else.  Barcelona has more Twitter followers than them.  Real Madrid has won more European Cups.  And so on and so forth. 

Before the advent of the PL Man U were a historically great European side.  I give you that.  But a similar level to Celtic and Benfica and below Real Madrid and around that time - AC Milan.  What has separated Ajax, Benfica and co. from the likes of Juventus and Bayern is the lack of strength of the domestic leagues. They are all European aristocrats of football imo.  Man U winning the PL gold rush of the first 15 years is precisely what distinguishes them from everybody else. 
 

There are footballing metrics and non footballing that makes us bigger than Wimbledon. 
 

West Ham, Everton and others in the PL are in the top 20 for revenue in European football. We might even be in the top 20/25. It’s entirely down to the success of the PL and Man U are at the top of that tree. Man City are the #1 club in the world in terms of revenue - are they the biggest club in the world?

 

And yes Man City have signed a genuine world superstar in Haaland. The next 2 biggest stars of his generation are Bellingham and Mbappe atm. When Serie A was the most popular league in the world - they had the biggest clubs and they signed the best players in the world. Ronaldo, Van Basten, Maradona etc. we’ve had 20 years of the best players choosing Barcelona and Madrid.  Ronaldinho turned down Man U to join Barcelona. That does not happen in reverse. 
 

 

Again this is not a personal attack.  Just a general point that the common phrase ‘Man U are the biggest club in the world’ is just not founded in absolute fact the way the phrase IS an absolute.  The phrase that people use is ‘Man U are the biggest club in the world’ and it often goes unchallenged.  Potentially it is true. Commercially it used to be true.   But it’s not anymore. In totality - looking at everything - I don’t think it’s ever been true personally.  
 

I believe in words. That phrase is myth and legacy building for Man U. It’s not true enough for me to buy into it

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buzza

buzza

Posted
Posted

The biggest club in the world currently has to be Real Madrid, all of the biggest stars in football want to play there, they have won a huge percentage of the champs league in the last 10-15 years and seem to be quite a well run club by Florentino, albeit with advantages from local government and their own Spanish league to perpetuate their position.

 

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Nucasol

Nucasol

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, buzza said:

It is quite funny, over here in Spain if you do not live in or near to (30 mins max) a big city your La Liga club is either Barca or Madrid. 

 

Could argue the same in the shires in the U.K. and Ireland. So many plastic Man Utd and Liverpool fans. Went to school between Nottingham and Derby and had people from Mansfield supporting Liverpool.

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TheBrownBottle

TheBrownBottle

Posted
Posted
20 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

What top players go to Man U?

 

In the last decade I count Paul Pogba (who had already played there). The next closest 2 Sanchez and ADM had taken a step down. 

Before the advent of the PL Man U were a historically great European side.  I give you that.  But a similar level to Celtic and Benfica and below Real Madrid and around that time - AC Milan.  What has separated Ajax, Benfica and co. from the likes of Juventus and Bayern is the lack of strength of the domestic leagues. They are all European aristocrats of football imo.  Man U winning the PL gold rush of the first 15 years is precisely what distinguishes them from everybody else. 
 

There are footballing metrics and non footballing that makes us bigger than Wimbledon. 
 

West Ham, Everton and others in the PL are in the top 20 for revenue in European football. We might even be in the top 20/25. It’s entirely down to the success of the PL and Man U are at the top of that tree. Man City are the #1 club in the world in terms of revenue - are they the biggest club in the world?

 

And yes Man City have signed a genuine world superstar in Haaland. The next 2 biggest stars of his generation are Bellingham and Mbappe atm. When Serie A was the most popular league in the world - they had the biggest clubs and they signed the best players in the world. Ronaldo, Van Basten, Maradona etc. we’ve had 20 years of the best players choosing Barcelona and Madrid.  Ronaldinho turned down Man U to join Barcelona. That does not happen in reverse. 
 

 

Again this is not a personal attack.  Just a general point that the common phrase ‘Man U are the biggest club in the world’ is just not founded in absolute fact the way the phrase IS an absolute.  The phrase that people use is ‘Man U are the biggest club in the world’ and it often goes unchallenged.  Potentially it is true. Commercially it used to be true.   But it’s not anymore. In totality - looking at everything - I don’t think it’s ever been true personally.  
 

I believe in words. That phrase is myth and legacy building for Man U. It’s not true enough for me to buy into it

Honestly, never took it as a personal attack mate - just a back-and-forth debate.  I don’t have any skin in the game for that :) - I dislike all of the clubs which would even be in the debate.

 

PS I did think of Haaland after I wrote what I did - he’s the first Man City signing where he was one of the world’s very best players when he signed.  100% agree. 

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The College Dropout

The College Dropout

Posted
Posted
31 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said:

Honestly, never took it as a personal attack mate - just a back-and-forth debate.  I don’t have any skin in the game for that :) - I dislike all of the clubs which would even be in the debate.

 

PS I did think of Haaland after I wrote what I did - he’s the first Man City signing where he was one of the world’s very best players when he signed.  100% agree. 

I think Post Pep - Man City might go on a real tear in the transfer market.  Pep likes robot boys. They will probably go for a similar mould after but at some point they might splash the cash on big names. 

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andycap

andycap

Posted
Posted

If they want him they'll throw crazy money at him that's man uniteds way. I don't think he's going anywhere like you have to remember at Brighton he was working to a budget now he's with us in a year or two he can really do his stuff. 

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Dr Jinx

Dr Jinx

Posted
Posted
50 minutes ago, Nucasol said:

Could argue the same in the shires in the U.K. and Ireland. So many plastic Man Utd and Liverpool fans. Went to school between Nottingham and Derby and had people from Mansfield supporting Liverpool.


Careful about the use of the word plastic. I’m Irish and I’ve supported Newcastle since 1993/4

 

It’s been every much a part of my life as being a local would.

 

Now a supporter who just wants to follow a winning team.. yeah thats fair enough.. but not being local doesn’t cover the whole spectrum.

 

Globally Real Madrid and Man Utd are the most (not best) supported clubs in the world and their revenues support this.

 

They are still a huge draw and will continue to be. Whether Dan Ashworth is interested is doubtful, he’s only here a season pretty much. We haven’t really started the build yet.. can’t see why he’d jump before we get to do that.

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Danh1

Danh1

Posted
Posted

Even with Ratcliffe, they’re still a toxic club. On a hiding to nothing if he was to go there, which I don’t think he would. Maybe in 5/6 years time when he’s been able to build

something here but not now. 

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Nucasol

Nucasol

Posted
Posted
14 minutes ago, Dr Jinx said:


Careful about the use of the word plastic. I’m Irish and I’ve supported Newcastle since 1993/4

 

It’s been every much a part of my life as being a local would.

 

Now a supporter who just wants to follow a winning team.. yeah thats fair enough.. but not being local doesn’t cover the whole spectrum.

 

Globally Real Madrid and Man Utd are the most (not best) supported clubs in the world and their revenues support this.

 

They are still a huge draw and will continue to be. Whether Dan Ashworth is interested is doubtful, he’s only here a season pretty much. We haven’t really started the build yet.. can’t see why he’d jump before we get to do that.

In the case I was talking about I just don’t get why you’d pick a club with zero local or family connection when you’ve got reasonably successful clubs in Forest and Derby (plus Mansfield, Chesterfield and the two Sheffield clubs) on your doorstep. 

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Geordie Ahmed

Geordie Ahmed

Posted
Posted
26 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

FFP only includes playing and managerial staff right? We can pay everyone else what we want.  

When you say everyone else do you mean Ashworth, scouts etc? If so then surely those are included as they are part of the club 

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toontownman

toontownman

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, et tu brute said:

He's already knocked it back flat when asked the question a few weeks ago. 
 

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/man-united-newcastle-dan-ashworth-28054016.amp

Wasn't particularly sold on those quotes tbh. But you can spin quotes whichever way your paranoid brain wants to, which is what i have! I hope we don't lose him and I'd like to think he would prefer the challenge here and finishing the good work he has started. 

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The College Dropout

The College Dropout

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Geordie Ahmed said:

When you say everyone else do you mean Ashworth, scouts etc? If so then surely those are included as they are part of the club 

Infrastructure and youth development isn’t included. That’s part of the club. 
 

‘Only a club's outgoings in transfers, employee benefits (including wages), amortisation of transfers, finance costs and dividends would be counted over income from gate receipts, TV revenue, advertising, merchandising, disposal of tangible fixed assets, finance, sales of players and prize money. Any money spent on infrastructure, training facilities or youth development would not be included.’

 

Sounds like it is included. Still most executive pay is considerably less than a star player. We’ll already be paying Ashworth top dollar.  But if he wants to go, he’ll go.  

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