Guest Heneage Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 He's far from gone. Of the bunch he was good enough to stay around bring us back up and has played out of his skin, be sad to see him go but if it's to anyone other than the elite I'd be annoyed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Disagree, especially when they said all along that he wasn't for sale at any price. You only have to look at the effect it's had on the supposed new contract talks to see that some of the players are unconvinced. From being reportedly close to announcing them, now the players want to wait and see what happens. Even Barton, who has agreed a deal in principle and says he wants to stay etc etc (personally I do believe him) has put the brakes on. We don't know what the feeling is within the dressing room, for all we know they might have been told that we're not going to spend the money. Did Liverpool show a lack of ambition in selling Torres? Torres has played like a drunk for the last 18 months, and Chelsea were willing to bankroll them buying a top striker and the best young striker in England to replace him. Also, they had those moves lined up before letting Torres go, amazingly enough. So no. Indeed. Can't emphasise the last sentence enough, they parried a blow and came back with a haymaker by spending every penny. Some might question the wisdom (I don't), but rhetorically it was a massive statement of intent which is rewarding in itself. No one was talking about Liverpool's new plight as a selling club, but they were talking about our historic 'place' in football. Which we still effectively could do. Considering a large proportion of fans are unsure about that, it's no real surprise that the players are too. In fact the way Barton and Enrique have stalled on new contracts and these comments from both point to a serious lack of belief even within the club itself that the ambition is there to spend the brass trying to push us onwards and upwards. Alarming stuff IMO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinmk Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Quote from: Jonny Hall on Today at 12:29:08 AM Quote from: 80 on Today at 12:09:52 AM Quote from: Jonny Hall on Yesterday at 11:55:22 PM It's amazing that a player can sit there and say "I want to play Champions League football, be at a big club like Man U" and people still go "Well it must be Ashley and Pardew wanting rid, it simply has to be. There's no other explanation" Laughing I have to say, not one person has said that. A mention of Pardew possibly trying to up our eventual price for him, but why not - doesn't mean Enrique didn't initiate the deal, just that Pardew's sensibly been wanting to up our eventual price for him. There are plenty people hinting at it, be it about the Twitter incident or the Carroll sale or him wanting more money or whathaveyou. When in reality, he simply wants CL football and wants to be at a bigger club. It sucks, but it's truth. As I suspected. Well, it's me who mentioned the twitter incident, but you're seeing shadows - the issue is simply whether that was a genuine accident or a deliberate indication of an issue, regardless of what the problem was or who caused it. It could have been a dig over the sacking of his trusted mentor, it could have been him laying the foundations of a greedy betrayal of a club. Or it could have been absolutely nothing. Aside from that, you've managed to change people - and not the usual suspects - saying Enrique's leaving for more money into people saying Ashley and Pardew are cleverly forcing him out of the club, which is impressive and suits an "everybody's stupid" agenda, but not right. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thespence Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Disagree, especially when they said all along that he wasn't for sale at any price. You only have to look at the effect it's had on the supposed new contract talks to see that some of the players are unconvinced. From being reportedly close to announcing them, now the players want to wait and see what happens. Even Barton, who has agreed a deal in principle and says he wants to stay etc etc (personally I do believe him) has put the brakes on. We don't know what the feeling is within the dressing room, for all we know they might have been told that we're not going to spend the money. Did Liverpool show a lack of ambition in selling Torres? Torres has played like a drunk for the last 18 months, and Chelsea were willing to bankroll them buying a top striker and the best young striker in England to replace him. Also, they had those moves lined up before letting Torres go, amazingly enough. So no. Indeed. Can't emphasise the last sentence enough, they parried a blow and came back with a haymaker by spending every penny. Some might question the wisdom (I don't), but rhetorically it was a massive statement of intent which is rewarding in itself. No one was talking about Liverpool's new plight as a selling club, but they were talking about our historic 'place' in football. Which we still effectively could do. We were always going to spend money if we stayed up. I doubt we will be spending that wedge + AC money only the loons would think that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Village Idiot Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 How much is he on right now? I think the Spain callup is weighing heavily here. Going to Villa wouldn't help, but if he goes to Liverpool he'll be on Marca's homepage every weekend. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
QBG Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 If he goes anywhere I want it to be Barcelona, failing that Man U, but Barca look like they could use a left back. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JH Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Disagree, especially when they said all along that he wasn't for sale at any price. You only have to look at the effect it's had on the supposed new contract talks to see that some of the players are unconvinced. From being reportedly close to announcing them, now the players want to wait and see what happens. Even Barton, who has agreed a deal in principle and says he wants to stay etc etc (personally I do believe him) has put the brakes on. We don't know what the feeling is within the dressing room, for all we know they might have been told that we're not going to spend the money. Did Liverpool show a lack of ambition in selling Torres? Torres has played like a drunk for the last 18 months, and Chelsea were willing to bankroll them buying a top striker and the best young striker in England to replace him. Also, they had those moves lined up before letting Torres go, amazingly enough. So no. Indeed. Can't emphasise the last sentence enough, they parried a blow and came back with a haymaker by spending every penny. Some might question the wisdom (I don't), but rhetorically it was a massive statement of intent which is rewarding in itself. No one was talking about Liverpool's new plight as a selling club, but they were talking about our historic 'place' in football. Which we still effectively could do. We were always going to spend money if we stayed up. I doubt we will be spending that wedge + AC money only the loons would think that. I agree. But until they've not spent the money, I'm not going to criticise them for not being ambitious and not spending the money. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wallace Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 As well as Barton's quotes about improving the team, Nolan also said similar in the Chronicle. Maybe they can see there is no real desire from Ashley to push on. The players did seem quite upset about Carroll going which seems quite unusual even allowing for them being an exceptionally tight-knit "group of lads". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinmk Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 If I was an ambitious young footballer with a few braincells I wouldn't want to stick around these gambling idiots. Enrique probably does love the club and the fans to bits but he has to think firstly about himself and his career and fair play to him whatever he chooses. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueStar Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 The best we can hope for is Ben Arfa comes back and lights up the league. Kind of difficult to get excited about things when you have the nagging feeling that if anyone becomes a great player we're going to sell them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Disagree, especially when they said all along that he wasn't for sale at any price. You only have to look at the effect it's had on the supposed new contract talks to see that some of the players are unconvinced. From being reportedly close to announcing them, now the players want to wait and see what happens. Even Barton, who has agreed a deal in principle and says he wants to stay etc etc (personally I do believe him) has put the brakes on. We don't know what the feeling is within the dressing room, for all we know they might have been told that we're not going to spend the money. Did Liverpool show a lack of ambition in selling Torres? Torres has played like a drunk for the last 18 months, and Chelsea were willing to bankroll them buying a top striker and the best young striker in England to replace him. Also, they had those moves lined up before letting Torres go, amazingly enough. So no. Indeed. Can't emphasise the last sentence enough, they parried a blow and came back with a haymaker by spending every penny. Some might question the wisdom (I don't), but rhetorically it was a massive statement of intent which is rewarding in itself. No one was talking about Liverpool's new plight as a selling club, but they were talking about our historic 'place' in football. Which we still effectively could do. We were always going to spend money if we stayed up. I doubt we will be spending that wedge + AC money only the loons would think that. I agree. But until they've not spent the money, I'm not going to criticise them for not being ambitious and not spending the money. How much of it would we have to spend in the summer to convince you it influenced the intended spending plans? Not having a go, just wondering at what point you'd consider it being ambitious. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ketsbaia Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Could we change his mind if we got 7th place and into Europa? The Spain situation could go both ways: 1) he doesn't get call-ups here and sees leaving as the only way to get one 2) he gets called up, he sees how the elite live and wants to be part of that Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
80 Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Disagree, especially when they said all along that he wasn't for sale at any price. You only have to look at the effect it's had on the supposed new contract talks to see that some of the players are unconvinced. From being reportedly close to announcing them, now the players want to wait and see what happens. Even Barton, who has agreed a deal in principle and says he wants to stay etc etc (personally I do believe him) has put the brakes on. We don't know what the feeling is within the dressing room, for all we know they might have been told that we're not going to spend the money. Did Liverpool show a lack of ambition in selling Torres? Torres has played like a drunk for the last 18 months, and Chelsea were willing to bankroll them buying a top striker and the best young striker in England to replace him. Also, they had those moves lined up before letting Torres go, amazingly enough. So no. Indeed. Can't emphasise the last sentence enough, they parried a blow and came back with a haymaker by spending every penny. Some might question the wisdom (I don't), but rhetorically it was a massive statement of intent which is rewarding in itself. No one was talking about Liverpool's new plight as a selling club, but they were talking about our historic 'place' in football. Which we still effectively could do. Timing is everything, live in the moment or you get left behind. A drunk clambering off the floor and picking up his teeth before hollering after the guy who put him there that if he 'comes back here he'll get fucking mullered' doesn't look clever to anyone. We didn't parry the blow, we got punched. Anyway, it's patently obvious we won't even try to throw that haymaker. Even if we spent it all, we'll be getting four £5m kids (wages too, remember), not one gargantuan golden boy and a star of the last world cup. To me it's clear all manner of negative things are stemming forth, which themselves disrupt the chances of a good Summer. Players will look at the 'newly brilliant' Enrique and see he's attracted by clubs like Villa and Liverpool - so if he's going, why would they come? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JH Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Disagree, especially when they said all along that he wasn't for sale at any price. You only have to look at the effect it's had on the supposed new contract talks to see that some of the players are unconvinced. From being reportedly close to announcing them, now the players want to wait and see what happens. Even Barton, who has agreed a deal in principle and says he wants to stay etc etc (personally I do believe him) has put the brakes on. We don't know what the feeling is within the dressing room, for all we know they might have been told that we're not going to spend the money. Did Liverpool show a lack of ambition in selling Torres? Torres has played like a drunk for the last 18 months, and Chelsea were willing to bankroll them buying a top striker and the best young striker in England to replace him. Also, they had those moves lined up before letting Torres go, amazingly enough. So no. Indeed. Can't emphasise the last sentence enough, they parried a blow and came back with a haymaker by spending every penny. Some might question the wisdom (I don't), but rhetorically it was a massive statement of intent which is rewarding in itself. No one was talking about Liverpool's new plight as a selling club, but they were talking about our historic 'place' in football. Which we still effectively could do. We were always going to spend money if we stayed up. I doubt we will be spending that wedge + AC money only the loons would think that. I agree. But until they've not spent the money, I'm not going to criticise them for not being ambitious and not spending the money. How much of it would we have to spend in the summer to convince you it influenced the intended spending plans? Not having a go, just wondering at what point you'd consider it being ambitious. Every penny of it. On transfer fees, like Liverpool did. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtype Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 The club will survive without him. We always do. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JH Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Disagree, especially when they said all along that he wasn't for sale at any price. You only have to look at the effect it's had on the supposed new contract talks to see that some of the players are unconvinced. From being reportedly close to announcing them, now the players want to wait and see what happens. Even Barton, who has agreed a deal in principle and says he wants to stay etc etc (personally I do believe him) has put the brakes on. We don't know what the feeling is within the dressing room, for all we know they might have been told that we're not going to spend the money. Did Liverpool show a lack of ambition in selling Torres? Torres has played like a drunk for the last 18 months, and Chelsea were willing to bankroll them buying a top striker and the best young striker in England to replace him. Also, they had those moves lined up before letting Torres go, amazingly enough. So no. Indeed. Can't emphasise the last sentence enough, they parried a blow and came back with a haymaker by spending every penny. Some might question the wisdom (I don't), but rhetorically it was a massive statement of intent which is rewarding in itself. No one was talking about Liverpool's new plight as a selling club, but they were talking about our historic 'place' in football. Which we still effectively could do. Timing is everything, live in the moment or you get left behind. A drunk clambering off the floor and picking up his teeth before hollering after the guy who put him there that if he 'comes back here he'll get f***ing mullered' doesn't look clever to anyone. We didn't parry the blow, we got punched. Anyway, we patently clear we won't even try to throw that haymaker. Even if we spent it all, we'll be getting four £5m kids (wages too, remember), not one gargantuan golden boy and a star of the last world cup. To me it's clear all manner of negative things are stemming forth, which themselves disrupt the chances of a good Summer. Players will look at the 'newly brilliant' Enrique and see he's attracted by clubs like Villa and Liverpool - so if he's going, why would they come? So they could go to Liverpool eventually too? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wallace Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 How much is he on right now? I think the Spain callup is weighing heavily here. Going to Villa wouldn't help, but if he goes to Liverpool he'll be on Marca's homepage every weekend. On another forum today, someone said that it had been mentioned in the Spanish press that he was going to Liverpool and that he would be in the next Spanish squad. They didn't say which newspaper it had been mentioned in. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaizero Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 The best we can hope for is Ben Arfa comes back and lights up the league. Kind of difficult to get excited about things when you have the nagging feeling that if anyone becomes a great player we're going to sell them. IMO I don't think Ben Arfa would go in the summer regardless of if he lights up the league in the 7-8 games he might get. He's come back from a serious injury, "big" clubs aren't feeling ready to risk money on him before they see that he can maintain his eventual form, surely? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Village Idiot Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 How much is he on right now? I think the Spain callup is weighing heavily here. Going to Villa wouldn't help, but if he goes to Liverpool he'll be on Marca's homepage every weekend. On another forum today, someone said that it had been mentioned in the Spanish press that he was going to Liverpool and that he would be in the next Spanish squad. They didn't say which newspaper it had been mentioned in. I'll search the usual suspects. EDIT: Found it. Today in Marca. They claim Del Bosque considered calling him against Colombia and might feature soon. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Disagree, especially when they said all along that he wasn't for sale at any price. You only have to look at the effect it's had on the supposed new contract talks to see that some of the players are unconvinced. From being reportedly close to announcing them, now the players want to wait and see what happens. Even Barton, who has agreed a deal in principle and says he wants to stay etc etc (personally I do believe him) has put the brakes on. We don't know what the feeling is within the dressing room, for all we know they might have been told that we're not going to spend the money. Did Liverpool show a lack of ambition in selling Torres? Torres has played like a drunk for the last 18 months, and Chelsea were willing to bankroll them buying a top striker and the best young striker in England to replace him. Also, they had those moves lined up before letting Torres go, amazingly enough. So no. Indeed. Can't emphasise the last sentence enough, they parried a blow and came back with a haymaker by spending every penny. Some might question the wisdom (I don't), but rhetorically it was a massive statement of intent which is rewarding in itself. No one was talking about Liverpool's new plight as a selling club, but they were talking about our historic 'place' in football. Which we still effectively could do. We were always going to spend money if we stayed up. I doubt we will be spending that wedge + AC money only the loons would think that. I agree. But until they've not spent the money, I'm not going to criticise them for not being ambitious and not spending the money. How much of it would we have to spend in the summer to convince you it influenced the intended spending plans? Not having a go, just wondering at what point you'd consider it being ambitious. Every penny of it. On transfer fees, like Liverpool did. So £35m net? Again, just wondering, before anyone steams in and tells me that net spend is meaningless. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ameritoon Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Somehow doesn't hurt as much as I though. Not that he's gone, yet. But, like someone else mentioned, once the Carroll sale happened, I stopped getting so attached to the players. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JH Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Disagree, especially when they said all along that he wasn't for sale at any price. You only have to look at the effect it's had on the supposed new contract talks to see that some of the players are unconvinced. From being reportedly close to announcing them, now the players want to wait and see what happens. Even Barton, who has agreed a deal in principle and says he wants to stay etc etc (personally I do believe him) has put the brakes on. We don't know what the feeling is within the dressing room, for all we know they might have been told that we're not going to spend the money. Did Liverpool show a lack of ambition in selling Torres? Torres has played like a drunk for the last 18 months, and Chelsea were willing to bankroll them buying a top striker and the best young striker in England to replace him. Also, they had those moves lined up before letting Torres go, amazingly enough. So no. Indeed. Can't emphasise the last sentence enough, they parried a blow and came back with a haymaker by spending every penny. Some might question the wisdom (I don't), but rhetorically it was a massive statement of intent which is rewarding in itself. No one was talking about Liverpool's new plight as a selling club, but they were talking about our historic 'place' in football. Which we still effectively could do. We were always going to spend money if we stayed up. I doubt we will be spending that wedge + AC money only the loons would think that. I agree. But until they've not spent the money, I'm not going to criticise them for not being ambitious and not spending the money. How much of it would we have to spend in the summer to convince you it influenced the intended spending plans? Not having a go, just wondering at what point you'd consider it being ambitious. Every penny of it. On transfer fees, like Liverpool did. So £35m net? Again, just wondering, before anyone steams in and tells me that net spend is meaningless. Yup, pretty much. Although I would see any net over £20m as being a sign of intent. Doesn't mean I think it'll happen, but I won't criticise them before they've even had the chance to not do it, if that makes sense. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Village Idiot Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 How much is he on right now? I think the Spain callup is weighing heavily here. Going to Villa wouldn't help, but if he goes to Liverpool he'll be on Marca's homepage every weekend. On another forum today, someone said that it had been mentioned in the Spanish press that he was going to Liverpool and that he would be in the next Spanish squad. They didn't say which newspaper it had been mentioned in. I'll search the usual suspects. EDIT: Found it. Today in Marca. They claim Del Bosque considered calling him against Colombia and might feature soon. The same article claims that he was named MoM against Brum. Wasn't it Bentley? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 The best we can hope for is Ben Arfa comes back and lights up the league. Kind of difficult to get excited about things when you have the nagging feeling that if anyone becomes a great player we're going to sell them. IMO I don't think Ben Arfa would go in the summer regardless of if he lights up the league in the 7-8 games he might get. He's come back from a serious injury, "big" clubs aren't feeling ready to risk money on him before they see that he can maintain his eventual form, surely? Based on what I've seen so far, and hoping/assuming he fully recovers his pace etc, I'll be fucking stunned if he isn't gone next January. We haven't got a hope in hell of keeping Ben Arfa under wraps like we have with some of our other lesser-known players. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JH Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 How much is he on right now? I think the Spain callup is weighing heavily here. Going to Villa wouldn't help, but if he goes to Liverpool he'll be on Marca's homepage every weekend. On another forum today, someone said that it had been mentioned in the Spanish press that he was going to Liverpool and that he would be in the next Spanish squad. They didn't say which newspaper it had been mentioned in. I'll search the usual suspects. EDIT: Found it. Today in Marca. They claim Del Bosque considered calling him against Colombia and might feature soon. The same article claims that he was named MoM against Brum. Wasn't it Bentley? Bentley got Brum's man of the match. Not the Premier League MoM iirc Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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